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Bored with building or flying around the pattern?

DonFromTX

Well Known Member
Life can be far more exciting, just try trailering your plane. If you do enough stuff wrong, life can definitely get more exciting!! Maybe even more than you really wanted.
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Life can be far more exciting, just try trailering your plane. If you do enough stuff wrong, life can definitely get more exciting!! Maybe even more than you really wanted.
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Looks like one of those "Harbor Freight" folding trailers...kinda light duty for hauling a -12! (Ask me how I know)...or I only thought about it for a short while; and finally settled on a four place snowmobile trailer.
 
I am thinking I would ditch the harbor freight trailer in the ditch, grab the airplane and continue on. Looks like your stacking 2 trailers on top of each other with a 401k savings plan on top of that.
 
Ever watched a car on a trailer? The car gets a lot of amplified motion as the dynamics of the two vehicles don't work together. I'll bet the RV-12 got a heck of a ride.

Dave
 
Ever watched a car on a trailer? The car gets a lot of amplified motion as the dynamics of the two vehicles don't work together. I'll bet the RV-12 got a heck of a ride.

It is definitely possible.

That is why during some extended trailering discussions here in the forum a few years ago, I recommended a trailer that would provide for a support/anchor post for the aft end of the tail.
 
.... a trailer that would provide for a support/anchor post for the aft end of the tail.

Never a bad idea, but it's not strictly necessary. I use a tailpost A-frame for all the conventional gear airplanes, but none for the tricycles. Done thousands of miles with probably 30~35 different airframes on this trailer, many twice...Cubs, an Ercoupe, a Cessna or two, a bunch of mixed EAB's, and at last count, five RV's, all trikes except for this handsome example ;).

I do tie the tails on the trikes in much the same place as the steel A-frame. Mostly they're immobilized with nailed chocks and multiple tiedowns at the wing roots. They are a bit more towards the rear of the trailer, but the CG is still well forward of the trailer axles.



 
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[/IMG]I will try to answer some questions, hopefully without making this a long boring post.
This Harbor Freight trailer is more than enough trailer to haul an RV12. This is my third one, and I have hauled the "other" 12 and wings on it a number of times o- but not both at the same time. I in fact removed a spring leaf from it to make the ride easier. I made a lot of mistakes, here are some that led to this situation:
My Viking powered plane is heavier on the nose, so it gave a proper load distribution, the Rotax is lighter and created an unbalanced load. I had not calculated this into the planning. I also had NEVER hauled the wings AND the plane at the same time. When loaded at Del Rio, it "seemed" to be a balanced load. Nine miles down the road, a tire failure, put on the spare and went another 500 yards and the other tire failed!. Now with no more spares and unable to locate one, I unhooked the trailer and headed to town. When unhitching, it was obvious that the load was WAAAAY tail heavy, no way that load was going all the way to Harlingen TX! I went back to Del Rio to get a U Haul trailer - there were none closer than San Antonio! Finally found a trailer sales that had one that would do the job. Keep in mind my plane was barely off the road, was raining, and getting dark. It was not my day, while the dealer was checking the tires and lights on the new trailer, an employee backed into my car, $1875.00 in damage! Did I mention that the day before while at a stoplight, some gal rammed into the rear?
Anyhow now I have a trailer that will do the job, all I have to do is winch the little trailer onto the big one. All going fine until a ramp broke, dumping into this photo. Finally got it winched up and tied down, home with no other problems, I had enough for the day.
Alll this because even though I have been a pilot for 50 years, and had 17.5 hrs and 47 landings in an identical plane, I had no current flight review! Next time, I am not going to let some little squiggly line in my log book determine what to do. I should have just flown it home!
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It was more about no other alternatives than saving a buck really.
NOBODY wants to fly one of these! I begged for a pilot, everybody had the same excuse, they had never seen a Skyview and had never flown a 12. Bob Bogash had flown it down to Del Rio from Washington state and got weathered in went back home. I actually considered flying him back down here to finish the last leg!
noRV12QUOTE=Planecrazy232;1179152]Some of the things we do to save a buck...:eek:[/QUOTE]
 
Don, I'm sure several of us would have been glad to fly at home for you if you weren't so blasted far away.
 
You are correct, and also making it hard to do was that no airline flies into Del Rio! One would have had to rent a car in San Antonio and drive over there.

QUOTE=DaleB;1179215]Don, I'm sure several of us would have been glad to fly at home for you if you weren't so blasted far away.[/QUOTE]
 
Did you have the elevator trim set for nose up or nose down? Kidding, glad it all worked out for ya. By chance, did you check the tong weight? we want at least 2/3 or more of the load weight forward of the axle or axles center. or else you get out of control easy like a tail dragger :eek:
 
Never a bad idea, but it's not strictly necessary.

My post was specifically about the RV-12....

I have also move other trigear RV's on trailers (many times) with just straps on the tail and had no problems.

I have also seen RV-12's get damaged doing so. It has lighter skins (.020) and a lot less stiffening structure because of the nature of its light empty weight. Another big difference is the rather large (heavy) counterweight used to counter balance the entire stabilator.
There is no way to know ahead of time what the interaction between a particular trailers suspension, and the airplane will be. It is for this reason that I always recommend a tail prop rod.
 
Nothing wrong with that trailer, other than being a bit too narrow. When you think you have enough straps securing your plane, add a couple more. I always use extra in case one or more should fail.
 
The RV12 empty weight is ~750 pounds and the trailer is around 250 so total would be just over 1000 pounds.

The new trailer is probably 1800 pounds so probably under 3000 pounds.
 
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One way that I've used to secure an airplane fuselage to a trailer is to partially deflate the tires, wrap rope snugly around the axle and some nearby hard point on the trailer, and then bring the tires back up to pressure. It's definitely secure to the trailer then.

Dave
 
One way that I've used to secure an airplane fuselage to a trailer is to partially deflate the tires, wrap rope snugly around the axle and some nearby hard point on the trailer, and then bring the tires back up to pressure. It's definitely secure to the trailer then.

Dave

Cool suggestion if you don't use racket straps...
 
Nothing wrong with that trailer, other than being a bit too narrow. When you think you have enough straps securing your plane, add a couple more. I always use extra in case one or more should fail.

The key in Dons post was the CG. A trailer with aft CG and a high mass center will go into a wag and scare the C R A P out of you. I learned this with a '47 Crosley on a trailer when I was 15. Had to drive 20 mph. Funny, that car was only 3 yrs older than me at the time.
 
The RV12 empty weight is ~750 pounds and the trailer is around 250 so total would be just over 1000 pounds.

The new trailer is probably 1800 pounds so probably under 3000 pounds.

Ha, yeah, probably so. That'd be a very lightweight car hauler, but even so, the tow car probably is not rated for any towing. Good thing there is margin in designs...
 
Ha ha, no that was a Border Patrol fellow who stopped to help warn the traffic.He then went to his Hq and brought back two huge floor jacks,
if not for him we probably would still be there. Two different State Troopers went by and never even stopped to see if they could help.
Decided airplanes were not in their job description I guess.

I see the blue flashing lights behind. Did you get a ticket too?:mad:
willyeyeball
 
...
Alll this because even though I have been a pilot for 50 years, and had 17.5 hrs and 47 landings in an identical plane, I had no current flight review! Next time, I am not going to let some little squiggly line in my log book determine what to do. I should have just flown it home!
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I debated this post but decided, especially in light of recent aftermath discussions, that I had to bring it up. Flying a new-to you RV-12 without a current flight review would have a been a bad choice, and the type of story that is all too familiar in accident reports.

I feel for your situation and can't imagine how frustrating it is. But when you get frustrated is when you are tempted to make poor decisions that lead to poor outcomes. Flying that plane without a fight review would have been a poor decision. You were on the right path by doing whatever it took to get checked out again - safely. Did you consider just blocking out a few weeks and travelling somewhere with a good RV12 CFI?

It seems you have a lot of time and effort invested, and I know how it feels to be sooooo close to that first flight - it would be a shame to have something unfortunate happen now in the homestretch. PLEASE, do yourself and all of us a favor by not cutting any corners now!

Chris
 
. . . "It seems you have a lot of time and effort invested, and I know how it feels to be sooooo close to that first flight - it would be a shame to have something unfortunate happen now in the homestretch. PLEASE, do yourself and all of us a favor by not cutting any corners now!" . . .

Chris
That is very good advice and I whole heartedly endorse it.
 
I faced a similar issue when I got mine licensed but did not yet have insurance. I was itching to fly it, but in the end realized how bad the outcome would be if there was an issue and I had no coverage so I waited. I always ask myself what the NTSB Report would say when tempted to do something outside my comfort zone.
 
The sqiggly line in my log book would have made the flight not even one iota safer, only more legal - and insured, and enriched someone. It is encouraging to see that you and others agreed with my choice, but I still think I probably made the wrong decision. In my old age I find regulations and rules are pretty much made for the benefit of someone or some group, with little interest or concern for the safety or convenience of the person affected. Things have changed over the years, and there seems to be NO oversight of such things. An instructor for instance no longer has any incentive to train - but a large incentive to prolong the "training" for his own income benefit. The DAR mess is another example of an badly abused system - all to allow the FAA types to not have to do their job, and a "hired gun" to walk by a project and charge $1200 for typing up a couple of papers.
I see others frequently ignoring the rules because of this, and they seem to be the ones who actually beat the system. Just a few days ago I was speaking with a builder who has no BFR, no DAR signoff, and no phase one. He is happily flying around, I am not.
Do I sound bitter?


I debated this post but decided, especially in light of recent aftermath discussions, that I had to bring it up. Flying a new-to you RV-12 without a current flight review would have a been a bad choice, and the type of story that is all too familiar in accident reports.

I feel for your situation and can't imagine how frustrating it is. But when you get frustrated is when you are tempted to make poor decisions that lead to poor outcomes. Flying that plane without a fight review would have been a poor decision. You were on the right path by doing whatever it took to get checked out again - safely. Did you consider just blocking out a few weeks and travelling somewhere with a good RV12 CFI?

It seems you have a lot of time and effort invested, and I know how it feels to be sooooo close to that first flight - it would be a shame to have something unfortunate happen now in the homestretch. PLEASE, do yourself and all of us a favor by not cutting any corners now!

Chris
 
The sqiggly line in my log book would have made the flight not even one iota safer, only more legal - and insured, and enriched someone. It is encouraging to see that you and others agreed with my choice, but I still think I probably made the wrong decision. In my old age I find regulations and rules are pretty much made for the benefit of someone or some group, with little interest or concern for the safety or convenience of the person affected. Things have changed over the years, and there seems to be NO oversight of such things. An instructor for instance no longer has any incentive to train - but a large incentive to prolong the "training" for his own income benefit. The DAR mess is another example of an badly abused system - all to allow the FAA types to not have to do their job, and a "hired gun" to walk by a project and charge $1200 for typing up a couple of papers.
I see others frequently ignoring the rules because of this, and they seem to be the ones who actually beat the system. Just a few days ago I was speaking with a builder who has no BFR, no DAR signoff, and no phase one. He is happily flying around, I am not.
Do I sound bitter?

I am still not clear as to how you recently got a bunch of RV-12 transition training from jet guy but you didn't get a BFR sign off.
An over sight? Or he just didn't think you were ready?
If the latter, and if all the good things I have heard about his training are true, then it seems like trusting his judgment was a good decision.....
 
The sqiggly line in my log book would have made the flight not even one iota safer
ter?

Don, I hesitate to say this, but there are really only two possibilities.
1. You found a cfi who wanted to milk you for cash, or
2. You are unable to do an honest self-evaluation.
Do yourself a favor. Bite the bullet, buy a commercial ticket to Portland, and see Mike Seager. Ask him for an honest evaluation. Ask him what it will take to get current. He'll be honest with you.
 
All fair questions. Yes, I got my 17.5 hrs of training with Jetguy, very enjoyable too. I was a challenge I think, he admitted he had never tried to update a pilot who was not flying for 24 years! A surprise to me was an FAA publication that says for each year of inactivity, a pilot should expect 1 hour of airwork and one hour of ground training, to get current, and for a guy that soloed the first time in only 7 hours! After spending over $5500 and many months trying to get current, weather and Johns schedule made it seem I would never reach my goal (he is a full time airline pilot). I thought I had passed the flight review status, he did not. At the rate we were progressing, I would have to interrupt my training to give my plane its first condition inspection before I even flew it! I had encountered some of that with my initial training fifty years ago, you cannot gain much if you are grounded for months between lessons. I bought a plane and got my license in short order way back then.
I started to disassemble my plane, sell the parts and just give up. There were no other suitable planes down here to get transition training in, so I came up with a grand idea of buying a FLYING RV12, and get a local instructor to give me instruction in it - and a flight review. That is where I am at presently, we will see how that works out.

A
I am still not clear as to how you recently got a bunch of RV-12 transition training from jet guy but you didn't get a BFR sign off.
An over sight? Or he just didn't think you were ready?
If the latter, and if all the good things I have heard about his training are true, then it seems like trusting his judgment was a good decision.....
 
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Don, I hesitate to say this, but there are really only two possibilities.
1. You found a cfi who wanted to milk you for cash, or
2. You are unable to do an honest self-evaluation.
Do yourself a favor. Bite the bullet, buy a commercial ticket to Portland, and see Mike Seager. Ask him for an honest evaluation. Ask him what it will take to get current. He'll be honest with you.

I know Jetguy, I don't think he needs the cash.
 
Them silly things don't count for much, and that was about 6 years ago. You never realize how much your skills were lost until you try it again. I had friends and have heard of people crashing and sometimes perishing in their newly built plane, now I can understand why, you don't "feel" like you forgot how to fly!.

Don, didn't you used to have a ercoupe?
I thought you were current in that aircraft?
Dave
 
....I came up with a grand idea of buying a FLYING RV12, and get a local instructor to give me instruction in it - and a flight review....

Don, how will the instructor get the transition training and the make and model time to get on the insurance?

Dave
 
Excellent question. The way I am reading my insurance policy, if I let someone else fly it, he needs 25 hours in type and 500 total UNLESS HE IS AN INSTRUCTOR, those times don't apply. Could I be wrong?

Don, how will the instructor get the transition training and the make and model time to get on the insurance?

Dave
 
If you are insured with Shanna or Jenny at Gallagher (Nationair) 877-577-8267. They could probably work with you regarding the instructors coverage on your plane. It's been done before.
 
I was a challenge I think, he admitted he had never tried to update a pilot who was not flying for 24 years!

Them silly things don't count for much, and that was about 6 years ago.

I'm still confused....

So you haven't actively flown as PIC for 24 years or 6 years?

Either way there is always a bunch of rust to knock off.

If Jetguy felt you needed more before he signed off on your BFR, then I think you made the right decision to put your airplane on a trailer.......
 
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