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Old 05-17-2018, 07:27 PM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 374
Default Beta Testers Wanted!

Hi Folks,

For the past several years, we have been working on a project to demonstrate the utility of an innovative aural AOA warning system that assists the pilot with energy management when flying on the back side of the drag curve.

We’ve put lessons learned in this white paper:

An earlier thread on the topic is here:

Last year, we conducted an Oshkosh forum on the topic and plan to conduct two sessions this year. As part of those presentations, we’ll give several tone generators to interested RV’ers that have Dynon AOA systems in their airplanes for field testing. We will also assist folks that have MGL AOA capability program and use the aural tone logic.

We initially thought the simplest approach to demonstrating the utility of this concept would be to build a prototype and produce a video of the system in use. What we learned is the first thing most folks focus on when they watch a video demonstration is the tone itself, which many immediately perceive as distracting or annoying. “I am not enjoying the thought of a bunch of folks flying into Oshkosh with a constant tone in their ear, distracting them from hearing the tower telling them to go around…” is representative of some of the feedback we get. Another comment we have received is that unlike military flying, civilian aviation is simply too varied and unpredictable for this type of logic to be useful. In actual use, the tone is readily internalized, and use becomes second nature; however, we understand that until folks have an opportunity to actually try it out, it’s difficult to convey the utility it offers. We refer to this phenomenon as “green eggs and ham syndrome.”

To help get the word out, gather more data and feedback from folks in the field, we will provide hardware, software, and flight test instructions to assist six beta testers with calibrating their Dynon AOA system, programming, installing and using an AOA tone generator in their airplane. Testers need Dynon DY-series or SkyView instrumentation with a differential pitot tube installed, be interested in conducting flight test (including multiple stalls), managing avionics configuration (using sub-menus and managing serial ports), using Dynon data recording and downloading data, and programming the adaptive tone generator (making small changes and compiling code for the Arduino processor). ANY RV’er with the appropriate avionics that enjoys experimenting is welcome!

Dynon experimenters will calibrate their AOA system, conduct a series of stall tests, download the data and send it to us for analysis. Additional calibration may be required. After calibration, we will program a tone generator to work in your airplane. Validation tests will be flown after installation to verify proper tone performance. It may be necessary to tweak individual settings by reprogramming the processor in the adaptive tone generator during the verification process. The tone generator is a stand-alone system that simply receives the Dynon data stream via 9 Pin serial input and uses a USB power supply. The pilot plugs the headset aux jack directly to the tone generator or connects it to the intercom aux input via patch cord. The indigenous progressive stall warning tone feature of Dynon systems is not used (it is actually left OFF via Dynon software selection).

Don’t shy away if you haven’t worked with a small prototyping processor…I’m an unfrozen caveman pilot that suffered through FORTRAN over thirty years ago that has a hard time finding the car in a parking lot—it’s doable

MGL experimenters are also wanted! If you have an iEFIS G3 with software version or later, we will help you set up and test the “User defined AOA Enhanced Aural Tone Logic” mode.

Interested pilots should send an email with avionics configuration and experience to vacf15 at yahoo dot com.

Fly safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 05-19-2018 at 06:23 AM. Reason: Updated Google Drive Link to White Paper
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:46 AM
Aggie78 Aggie78 is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 382

Email sent...
Rob Schroer
T67-Hicks Airport, Texas
VAF Monthly Donor
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:05 AM
Raymo's Avatar
Raymo Raymo is offline
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 1,992

Email sent. No Fortran experience but still work in Modula 2 quite often.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:27 PM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGG
Posts: 2,494
Default GRT and on speed

Vac, any positive feedback from the GRT folks on this? I'm heading that way, and would like to use your system. I know that they have tones, but I have no idea what they sound like, or if they are similar to "on speed".

BTW, your "RV-Type Training" document is jaw-dropping. I'm working my way through it - all 455 pages. I've learned a lot already. I finally get it when someone says that they have "X Gs available".
Mickey Coggins
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:24 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 374
Default We would be happy to collaborate!

Hi Mickey,

So far the only avionics manufacturer that has adopted this AOA tone logic is MGL.

I do have a friend that is just finishing up a Panther with GRT avionics. We were looking at the documentation and will likely be able to adapt one of our tone generators to that system. It's going to take some flight test to determine what's in the art of the doable, but if we get there, we'll be happy to share with you!

One of the objectives of this work is to simply get the idea out into the flying community. There are obviously lots of ways to skin the energy management cat and folks a lot smarter than we are are likely light years ahead of us--this is just one idea to provide feedback to the pilot on how hard to "pull on the pole" in the traffic pattern or when maneuvering. In a perfect world it would be part of a fully integrated envelope warning system that would provide multi-modal input to the pilot.

Since we are working in a fish bowl and sharing with anyone interested, I hope that we'll be able to collaborate with other folks working on similar concepts and get manufacturers other than MGL interested in adding this logic (or something very similar) as a pilot selectable function to their AOA systems. I also hope we can simplify and improve the accuracy of AOA calibration as we learn more.



P.S. Glad you found some useful info the training manual! Happy to help any time, just drop a PM or email if you have any questions.
Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 05-19-2018 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:44 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 374
Default Don't have to be a software engineer!

We've gotten a good response from folks that want to test the tone generator; a couple of quick updates:

The FORTRAN comment was purely in jest! I'm the least common denominator when it comes to computers, so if I can learn to program the tone generator, anyone can There is no requirement to know how to code to participate; but you do need to be comfortable managing the configuration of your SkyView.

If you have a SkyView, you either need an open port, free up a port or share a port IF it is configured for Dynon ADHRS out format at 9600 baud, in which case you can split the signal.

Also, we haven't had any submissions from folks with DY-series instruments...that is a much simpler installation--just plug into the DB9 harness that you use to download data or upload software. This plug is built into the harness supplied by Dynon or Stein.

Bottom line: don't hesitate to volunteer based on experience or background!

Have a great weekend,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida
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Old 05-20-2018, 11:22 AM
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jjconstant jjconstant is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oakland CA
Posts: 770

Plus one for GRT integration! I have the old Proprietary Software Systems AOA Sport (before they were bought by Advanced Flight Systems) and would love to have useful aural info before the "angle, angle, push". The logic seems very sound and I believe most people with back up parking assist beepers in their cars will understand the aid it provides, intuitively.

I've often also wondered why no-one has integrated sound for traffic alerts...not just "traffic, traffic" but a similar style of variable speed and pitch beeping, but in the appropriate sonic image in your headphones. You only need to do it for the closest target and stereo sonic imaging is good enough that a beeping in the right image will have you looking immediately in the correct place for the traffic. It would be no more annoying than walking outside and hearing an airplane, while still having a conversation. Most of us would look up, in the correct direction and smile, while continuing the conversation

If you integrate with GRT, sign me up for beta testing!
All Best

Jeremy Constant
RV7A "Stella Luna" ECI IO-360 WW200RV Pmags 360hrs
VAF 2019 paid plus some for those who can't
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:18 PM
patterson patterson is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queen Creek AZ
Posts: 442
Default I'm in

Count me in with this project.
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regular VAF donor despite being exempt
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:24 PM
gmohr gmohr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Trenton, SC
Posts: 161

Add another GRT user that would find this very useful.
Gene Mohr
Ret. US Army
RV6A (purchased), O360, Hartzell C/S prop
Trenton, SC (S17 homebase)
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:41 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 374

We have received a good number of replies to our request for beta testers, and have put together a representative cross-section of pilots and RV's to participate. We will be conducting forums at OSH on the topic and sharing results here on the safety page as we learn more.

Thank you!

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida
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