VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:13 PM
jsharkey's Avatar
jsharkey jsharkey is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,280
Default Force of Habit?

I have a D100 with traditional 3 1/8" "steam" ASI and ALT mounted either side of it for redundancy. When I fly I always use the steam gauges for speed and altitude and not the vertical ribbons on the EFIS. As I make my turn on to final I'm always glancing at the ASI and not the EFIS. Similarly when I level from a climb I focus on the ALT and not the EFIS. I do use the EFIS VSI numbers though, and its AI, and DI and TAS but these are hardly necessary for VFR.

Are steam gauges easier to fly by or am I just an old dog?

Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Phase 1
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:45 PM
marchudson's Avatar
marchudson marchudson is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Texas
Posts: 187
Default Maybe, maybe not

How ya like that answer I think it depends on what you are use to flying with. We flew for many years with just the analog gauges. I find that the EFIS display can give me a lot more information about what is going on than what I use to get from steam gauges. I use the trend indicators and the velocity vector a lot on the EFIS panels. Over the outer marker, I can set 3 deg down on the velocity vector and pretty much stay on glide slope. The trend indicators for the airspeed clue me in as to whether I have the power set about right or not. When I'm leveling off from a climb or descent, i just set the velocity vector on the horizon. Works like magic. Hope this helps.
__________________
Marc Hudson
North Texas
RV-7
Flying
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:08 PM
N395V's Avatar
N395V N395V is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mendon South Carolina
Posts: 1,391
Smile

You are just an old dawg
__________________



Milt Concannon
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:13 PM
TThurston TThurston is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Orem, UT
Posts: 213
Default

A friend of mine just built his second RV-9. The first one had a D10 with airspeed and alititude on either side. He said he always looked at them rather than the EFIS. He said when they're there it's hard not to look at them. His second RV-9 just put a D120 in the panel - no analog gauges. But with the new panel, he never misses them.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:16 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 11,366
Default Woof woof...

I'm an old dog too as I use the steam gauges as well.

As for the VSI, I never understood why people add those for backup instruments. The only VSI display I have on my D100 is the tape on the right side and then I only look at it when I'm doing some testing.

However, in level flight I tend to use the Dynon's altitude more often and the TAS numbers.

Truth is, if I were building today, I would not bother installing those steam gauges. If I flew IFR, those round gauges would probably be right where they are.

I think the reason I use them is old habits and I feel they are just a little easier to interpret. That and I put the AS in the upper left corner of the panel, right where I look when landing and the altimeter is just below that and I still wouldn't bother with a VSI.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:17 PM
sglaeser sglaeser is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 29
Default Not habit, ease of use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharkey View Post
When I fly I always use the steam gauges for speed and altitude and not the vertical ribbons on the EFIS.
Same with me. The steam gauges are visual indicators and therefore easier to read at a glance. I find that you need to stop and read the EFIS.

Since I'm a VFR pilot I spend nearly all of my time with my eyeballs looking out and about. I only briefly scan the instruments to make sure every things still ok. I have the AF-2500 engine monitor and love the gauge/bar readouts for the same reason.

Getting even more old school...I can tell you what my plane is doing just by the sights/sounds/control feel...no gauge reading necessary.
__________________
Steve Glaeser
Pittsburgh, PA
RV-7A, N8903G
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:17 PM
jsharkey's Avatar
jsharkey jsharkey is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,280
Default I'll try....

....blanking out the steam gauges as an experiment and see how it feels

Jim Sharkey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 11,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharkey View Post
....blanking out the steam gauges as an experiment and see how it feels

Jim Sharkey
That's what you're gonna have to do to get yourself reading the EFIS - the steam gauges are just very familiar to your brain, so that is what you interpret first. Interestingly enough, the EFIS presentation itself makes a difference. With the original GRT EFIS airspeed and ASI tapes, I never used them. When they came up with the new style display, my eyes were drawn to them much more easily, I use the steam gauges much less now than I did before - but it takes training.

Covering them is a good idea if you want to retrain your brain - and it is worth it!

Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor in Chief - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-22-2009, 10:11 PM
Martin Sutter Martin Sutter is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 260
Default

After flying 30 years behind steam gauges I switched to flying with a glass panel 5 years ago. It was love at first sight and I never looked at the back-up steam gauges again. I was 60 years old at that time and found the EFIS much easier to fly with from the get-go. I had familiarized myself with the EFIS and it's functions during the panel building and set-up process so I was comfortable with it from the first flight.

Martin Sutter
Building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Tech Counselor
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-22-2009, 11:47 PM
rvmills's Avatar
rvmills rvmills is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
That's what you're gonna have to do to get yourself reading the EFIS - the steam gauges are just very familiar to your brain, so that is what you interpret first. Interestingly enough, the EFIS presentation itself makes a difference. With the original GRT EFIS airspeed and ASI tapes, I never used them. When they came up with the new style display, my eyes were drawn to them much more easily, I use the steam gauges much less now than I did before - but it takes training.

Covering them is a good idea if you want to retrain your brain - and it is worth it!

Paul
Jim,

As I read the thread, I thought about suggesting covering the steam ASI, but read further and see you're already on it. I'd concur with Paul...that'd be the way to retrain the "meat servo control center"...and the eyeballs as well.

Paul's post also brought up another thought: Do you have the D100 set to "modern" display or the earlier style display? You might try going to the "modern" selection in the menu, and seeing if that isn't easier to look at and have it register more quickly. I find I like the modern display much better (FWIW).

Once you work with it for a bit, you may very well find yourself picking up data and trends just as quickly (perhaps more so) than from the steam, and you may find you really like the nice tight scan the EFIS provides.

Even old dawgs learn new tricks (AMHIK!)

Cheers,
Bob
__________________
Bob Mills
RV-6 "Rocket Six" N600SS
Reno-Stead, NV (KRTS)
Sport Class Air Racing "Race 49"
SARL "Race 49"
West Coast Ravens FFI RV Formation Squadron
APRS Track
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:59 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.