Removable seat and baggage floor info.

Building an RV7A standard kit. Ready to debur, dimple and prime the center section. I would really like to make the seat floor and baggage floor removable.

Can anyone turn me onto an online builder website or link that has done this? I?ve contemplated what it would take but am still searching and gathering information. I?ve search for posts here but only found a couple general posts. Any links to this forum that I haven?t been able to search out would be nice as well. Thanks.

I've done this on 2 Rv7As.

Its simple to do, just match drill the floors using #28 bit (if using #6 screws) or #19 bit (if using #8 screws). Use Oops rivets to attach the nutplates to prevent having to dimple the nutplates. I also suggest using countersunk screws underneath the seat cushions to prevent wear on the seat material.

It takes a while (lots of nutplates) but well worth the effort. Without it you are limited on placement of equipment and wiring. Also you have no access to inspect rear spar and seat belt anchors. Also harder to add wiring later. It not impossible, jusr easier.

Another suggestion is to place some 'keeper' screws along the centre access area (between the floor panels). For example when you remove the centre cover in the bagagge compartment, the edge of the floor cover is no longer supported. It easy to bend if you climb back there and kneel on it. So underneath the centre cover panel add a couple nutplates to help.

When I received my quickbuild fuse, I made the baggage floors removable using countersunk screws. Lots of extra drilling but totally worth it - especially if you want to make mods to the baggage area like I did. Get a hold of a #8 nutplate jig and go to town. Like the suggestion above, I used oops rivets for the nutplates.

About a year after it was flying, I made some brackets out of 1/8 angle aluminum that were match drilled to the baggage floor screw locations. This could be used for several things like tie downs or installing a car seat for toddlers! (the angle pieces have tie down hooks attached to them so I can latch the car seat in using it's hook system) I also placed screws and nutplates on the channel running between the tip up frame and aft bulkhead. This allowed me to place another anchor point up there for a car seat.

I did the same think on my almost flying RV-7A... used a pneumatic squeezer to dimple everything and a nut plate jig. I will say that it took much longer than anticipated (I can't remember the number of nut plates, but it was substantial and all the leaning into the fuse did a number on my back). I used all #8 countersunk torx screws and it came out looking really great.

From my experience a nut plate jig is a must and you will add a pound or so of weight.

removable floors

Hey, I like this idea of removable floors. I'm also building a 7A and working on the same mid fuselage. I'll do it to. I'll watch your construction log to see how it goes. I'd be inclined to use #6 screws rather than #8.

A good location...

...for button head socket screws --

http://www.fastener-express.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=259



...for a nice, low profile look in SS.

If you do it, use the right screws.

I agree with Scott. It is a real pain in the lower back to do this job. I installed the jillion nutplates necessary for the RV-8A floor and it was an adventure. Some of the nutplate positions in the crannies that made it very difficult to access them for riveting. Also, as an added bonus, when I went to rivet in the flap fairings, about a dozen of the nutplates were in the way and I had to drill them out to set the rivets for the flap fairings. Only time will tell if my pain was worth it (just started working on the finishing kit).

In any event, I would strongly recommend NOT using #6 screws or SS buttonhead screws. Both of these screws are considerably less strong than the good old fashioned #8 steel screws. I had the privilege of snapping the heads off 3 SS buttonhead screws in the floorboards before I chunked the rest of the bag I had purchased. It is a royal pain in the pattotie to remove the remnants of these screws from the nutplates once the head has snapped off.

The strength of....

Steve Ashby said:

......
In any event, I would strongly recommend NOT using #6 screws or SS buttonhead screws. Both of these screws are considerably less strong than the good old fashioned #8 steel screws. I had the privilege of snapping the heads off 3 SS buttonhead screws in the floorboards before I chunked the rest of the bag I had purchased. It is a royal pain in the pattotie to remove the remnants of these screws from the nutplates once the head has snapped off.

Click to expand...

...stainless screws should not be a problem since we are replacing cheapo, non-aircraft, aluminum pop rivets in a 1/8 inch diameter, and using the same spacing.
Just about any calculation method will have even aluminum screws stronger than the originally specified rivets - for this application only!

But I agree on the not using #6 screws, they seem a little too delicate and tight in the nutplates. I have had no trouble with #8 hardware, including the button head socket screws.

Stay away from the #6 stuff here...

sjhurlbut said:

It takes a while (lots of nutplates) but well worth the effort. Without it you are limited on placement of equipment and wiring. Also you have no access to inspect rear spar and seat belt anchors. Also harder to add wiring later. It not impossible, jusr easier.

Click to expand...

Hi ya'll,

I totally support doing this if you think it is worth it, but getting under the panels if you go with the pop rivets is pretty easy. I used the pop rivets, then later decided I wanted to change something. It was probably about 10 minutes work to drill out the pop rivets and then reinstall a new set of rivets.

I ran a plastic conduit, and new wires can be pulled through as needed.

Unless you are sure you have some reason to be below a particular panel you might want to skip the effort and (small) weight.

Rivnuts instead of nutplates?

Would rivnuts be any easier to install and provide adequate security for the baggage compartment installation?

I've just replaced some on my old Beech and it seemed a rather quick and easy way to install screw fasteners.

Match dril, install platenuts before riveting bottom skiin?

The big question for me is, match drill the 1/8? seat/baggage, floor/rib holes to #19 and instrall platenuts before or after riveting the ribs to the bottom skin. Matching drilling now will allow me to attach the platenuts while the ribs are separate and easier to install. But, having the platenuts on to early may introduce a problem later when you need to match drill other cabin parts.

I?m thinking I?ll match drill now before the ribs are riveted to the bottom skins so that I can attach platenuts more conveniently but only install platenuts now that are in locations that don?t have other parts that need to be match drilled.

I would like to here from those that match drilled and installed platenuts before riveting to here if they experienced problems and would they do it differently if done again.

Installing platenuts before riveting structure

I just got done installing platenuts on all the baggage and seat floor ribs before riveting the structure and skin together.

Only two problems came up:
First is where the top rivet attaches the seat rib to the rear spar. These were a real bear to set and several came out pretty ugly. This would have been hard even without platenuts.

Second is when riveting the outboard seat floor ribs to the side skins, there were a couple AN470AD4 rivets where bucking access was obscured by a plate nut. This was solved by simply bending the flange out of the way by hand, bucking the rivet, then bending the flange back.

Good luck!

mcencula said:

These were a real bear to set and several came out pretty ugly. This would have been hard even without platenuts.

Second is when riveting the outboard seat floor ribs to the side skins, there were a couple AN470AD4 rivets where bucking access was obscured by a plate nut. This was solved by simply bending the flange out of the way by hand, bucking the rivet, then bending the flange back.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Take a look at http://www.cherryaerospace.com/files/pdf/catalog/CA-1036.pdf Back in the day, when I was hands on, we would never waste the time and effort to install nut plate with solid rivets. These are cheap and can be pulled with a pop rivet gun. You can even get them in the "oops" reduced head size. Also, very easy to drill out to change one that gets damaged. Remember all the rivets do is keep the nut plate from turning and falling off when the screw is removed.

If I ever get around to building an RV it'll have nut plates everywhere, none with solid rivets, unless I absolutely can't pull one. My IA/inspector brain just doesn't like enclosed areas. I don't give a hoot about primer on everything, but I want to be able to take a look in there every year or so to see what's growing. I might not be thinking straight, but if it's OK with Boeing etc. then Vans shouldn't have an issue with using them.

Don

you may want to add access panel as well

I made my baggage floor removable using #8 screw but now I am thinking of creating an access panel for the ELT I have there. Removing the floor can be a pain as there are many screws to be removed for a quick inspection.

Mehrdad