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Lycoming from Vans or Other

RudiGreyling

RudiGreyling

Well Known Member
Hi Guys,

I am evaluating if I am going to buy a RV10 XIO-540-D4A5 from Vans or Other. (Their Oshkosh engine prop combo looks very promising)

2 years ago I bought a stock standard XP-IO-360 for my RV7, a beautifull engine even in standard trim with nice anidozed casings and black cylinder heads etc. It was cheaper then a lycoming and looked much better too.

Now I see the std Lycoming Engine offered by Vans is a ugly grey, looks like they just painted the whole thing after it was assembled.

How I wish XP was still around and made 6 cylinder engine!

Here is my Question:
I am not after a better performance i.e. hot engine, just a stock standard, hopefully better looking and maybe better balanced engine, at a better price.

For the guys that recently did the calculations, can you get a better stock engine deal from one of the engine assemblers out there????

Thanks in advance,
Regards
Rudi
 
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Rudi,
I was also looking for a stock engine for my 9A. I didn't want a bunch of bells and whistles, just dual mag, carburated engine. I did want it built as precise as possible and to look as good as the money I spent. Barrett Precision Engines does the extra balancing, machining and painting I was looking for plus they build a lot of airshow performers engines and if they are good enough for that abuse I think it will work very well for me. As far as price, if you are going to buy a new engine, you will have to pay new engine price regardless of where you buy it. My engine is on display at OSH in the BPE booth as I write this. If you are there stop in and talk to them or call them after Oshkosh. They advertise on VAF so just click on thier link.
 
With a competitive price point compared to other manufacturers who build upon an original Lycoming design, I ordered a factory new Lycoming engine from Van's. I could care less about its ugly grey color. At about the same time, I also placed a Van's accessory catalog order for a Lightspeed Plasma III ignition system. Later, I was surprised to discover the new engine warranty would be void if I installed the Lightspeed. I returned the unopened ignition system to Van's. Doing so, I had to absorb additional return shipping costs and a portion of the 10% restocking fee. For a $1500+ purchase, this was no small item. I do understand how such a thing could be overlooked by Van's employees, especially when the builder places an order for an engine using a dedicated order form and settles payment one way compared to routinely making on-line accessory catalog purchases with a credit card. Still, it would be helpful if in its literature describing new engines, Van's would include mention of the OEM warranty issue in the first place. Other manufacturers may not have such a policy. Knowing that information in advance, the potential customer is all the more informed prior to investing in the engine/ignition system of their choosing.
 
N4744Z said:
Rudi,
I was also looking for a stock engine for my 9A. I didn't want a bunch of bells and whistles, just dual mag, carburated engine. I did want it built as precise as possible and to look as good as the money I spent. Barrett Precision Engines does the extra balancing, machining and painting I was looking for plus they build a lot of airshow performers engines and if they are good enough for that abuse I think it will work very well for me. As far as price, if you are going to buy a new engine, you will have to pay new engine price regardless of where you buy it. My engine is on display at OSH in the BPE booth as I write this. If you are there stop in and talk to them or call them after Oshkosh. They advertise on VAF so just click on thier link.
Click to expand...

Ditto Kelly, I want the engine to be a sprecise as possible and look like $37K.

I want to stick as closely to RV10 plans, no unessary modification, being far from the USA in South Africa(SA) , staying close to plans means I don't have fiddle or run around for funny parts that is hard to find in SA.

Are you saying that BPE can give me a little more than std lycoming can for the same "NEW ENGINE" price?

Sorry I am not at Oshkosh this year, would have loved seeing your Engine.
 
Rick6a said:
I could care less about its ugly grey color.
Click to expand...

Same here!

I suppose the only time it would matter.............is if your plane is flying unpainted (which is kind of ugly itself) , and you need to remove the top cowl to impress someone, as well as yourself. Other than that; no one sees the engine.

L.Adamson --- RV6A (flying), and unpainted planes are ugly..
 
The dollar difference between Vans price and a Mattituck engine is around 2K. Mattituck makes a 'pretty' engine, along with other features you don't get with the Lycoming. And their reputation is second to none. Also, Mattituck offers a number of options which would be extra cost/DIY with the Lycoming.

That is where I plan to get my engine.
 
Some people care some people don't. Same reason I did not fly my first RV 7plane unpainted. I care hence I am asking the question :D
 
gpiney said:
The dollar difference between Vans price and a Mattituck engine is around 2K. Mattituck makes a 'pretty' engine, along with other features you don't get with the Lycoming. And their reputation is second to none. Also, Mattituck offers a number of options which would be extra cost/DIY with the Lycoming.

That is where I plan to get my engine.
Click to expand...

Is that 2K more or less than Vans?
 
Oddly enough, the Mattituck website is no longer listing the TMX-540, just the 390 and 360. Doesn't mean that Mattituck won't sell you one, but I find it interesting. For plain vanilla, the least expensive new engine I've seen is the Lyc Exp from Van's. Even more so if you can take advantage of their prop bundle.
 
Rudi,
I have not bought my engine yet for my RV-7. There are several very good engine builders out there.

Rhonda of Barrett Performance Engines has been very helpful with answering questions on this forum and perhaps others. Also, Mahlon Russell of Mattituck has also been very helpful on this forum as well as the Lycoming Engine Yahoo Group. I"m sure there are others. I know Aero Sport of Canada and Penn Yan of Penn Yan, New York have good reputations. If I were to order today, it would probably be from one of these four. I am not sure all four supply six cylinder engines, but I would be surprised if they didn't.

Good luck...and I find it amazing that you are now getting interested in an RV-10. Are you building an RV museum in South Africa? :) Great, go for it!
And thanks for sharing your photos and text with us.
Sincerely,
Don
 
I just looked at the Mattituck price list and it still lists TMX 540s so maybe they are just in a web update cycle. Anyway a 260hp TMX IO-540 lists for $41,479. Van's Lyc EXP IO-540 lists for $39550, is on sale for OSH at $38,750 ($37,750 if you bundle a prop).
 
Rudy,
My engine cost a more than the Vans lyc. deal but I wanted a Catto prop so the prop combo deal didn't do me any good. The extras from BPE were worth it to me, but that is just me. Its nice to be able to call and Rhonda picks up the phone, that will be a real plus in the future. Sounds like you also want a "pretty" engine, its your plane and your money, build it the way you want it.
 
Rudy,
I'm sure pleased with my Mattituck TMX-O-360. Mahlon will set up your engine however you want and it will be done right. Mine is half mag and half Plasma II+ and the flywheel sensor was installed and all ready to go. Silicone valve cover gaskets just for asking, etc. No regrets, and Mahlon is always quick to answer any questions or provide the wisdom of experience.

Mike
 
Thanx for all the input

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the input.

After deliberating about it back and forth I decided to stick to Vans ugly grey Lycoming!

Here are my reasons:
  1. I am based in South Africa. I am scared of the smaller companies. Who ever thought XP would go under, but they did. My RV7 has a XP in it, I don?t want the same risk with my RV10.
  2. The Vans Engine Prop combo at the Oskosh deal is pretty good,
  3. Sticking all Vans I am assured I don?t have to do any modifications to make the engine fit the plans and FW/FWD kit. In South Africa we don?t have the wide variety and choices of suppliers like you USA guys. So I want to stick to plans and as standard as possible.
  4. It IS UGLY, but after you put some nice baffles on and maybe paint the rocker covers a different color it might look better.
  5. I have an existing proven relationship with Vans, dealing with Payments and Shipping from/to South Africa is just better if handled via one party.

If I were based in the USA I think my decision would have been different.

Thank you,
Rudi
 
Van's has the Best Deal

RudiGreyling said:
........After deliberating about it back and forth I decided to stick to Vans ugly grey Lycoming!.....Sticking all Vans I am assured I don?t have to do any modifications to make the engine fit the plans and FW/FWD kit.....after you put some nice baffles on and maybe paint the rocker covers a different color it might look better......
Click to expand...
Rudi,

All your points are well thought out and quite reasonable. Let me expand on a one or two of them:

By sticking with Van's engine and dedicated FWF kit, I made all firewall penetrations before I attached the engine, even the engine mount. Later, I completed the throttle quadrant and installed all engine control cables on faith:

34sfllk.jpg


By following the FWF drawings, everything fit as advertised. By not trying to reinvent the wheel, I let Van's do the engineering for me and things went relatively smoothly. The standard kit only took 24 months start to finish. Certainly, a lot more time would have been required if I chose a different route.

I have to question whether clone engines....good as they are....are configured to accept a Van's FWF kit as readily as an OEM engine does.

BTW, I quickly swapped out those stock ugly grey rocker covers for chrome ones purchased from Chief. Stripped of paint, the unused rockers covers are now on permanent display.:D

2moshtz.jpg
 
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Rick6a said:
...

By sticking with Van's engine and dedicated FWF kit, I made all firewall penetrations before I attached the engine, even the engine mount. Later, I installed all engine control cables on faith. By following the FWF DWG's everything fit as advertised. By not trying to reinvent the wheel, I let Van's do the engineering for me and things went relatively smoothly. ...
Click to expand...
Wow, is the FWF kit really that complete and accurate? That is a concern of mine - I don't want to have to do a lot of on the fly engineering. Aren't there engines from the other suppliers that are identical externally to the Lycoming that Van's recommends?
 
Different - Good question.

Your question "Wow, is the FWF kit really that complete and accurate? That is a concern of mine - I don't want to have to do a lot of on the fly engineering. Aren't there engines from the other suppliers that are identical externally to the Lycoming that Van's recommends?" is a good one.

I am also interested in what others have to say about this.
 
thelynns said:
Your question "Wow, is the FWF kit really that complete and accurate? That is a concern of mine - I don't want to have to do a lot of on the fly engineering. Aren't there engines from the other suppliers that are identical externally to the Lycoming that Van's recommends?" is a good one.

I am also interested in what others have to say about this.
Click to expand...

Let me say it this way, Chosing everything from Vans is the Safe Option. If it doesn't fit then you have recourse.

I fitted an XP-IO-360 to my RV-7 and I had to do a couple of changes, but luckily there were people that went before me that gave me the heads up. (Different: Fuel hose, Mix Cable, Fuel Servo Lever, Additional Brakets, moving Airbox Filter box etc)

This time I just want it all to fit without the fuss.

Regards
Rudi
 
Compatibility

I'm also interested in other's experience with non-Van's engines fitting within the Van's drawings, plans, and firewall forward kit. For example will the cables for fuel, mixture, carb-heat penetrate the firewall in the same position shown on Van's drawings if I get a non-Van's O-360? Or are O-360 engines so standard that they just fit? Comments, and experience stories appreciated. thanks

Oh, I'm about to order the Finishing Kit and I'm wavering on designating the O-360 / fixed pitch combo.
 
Breather hose not included?

Does anybody know if you get an engine if the breather hose is part of the package - especially from Vans. I was looking through the firewall forward plans the other day and see where the breather hose and associated 90 degree hose is not part of the FF kit - needs to be bought separately from Vans. My engine is an overhaul from a core so I need one. Just wondering.
 
Ron Lee said:
I don't know what that means but if you are wavering on the prop, I suggest a constant speed prop.
Click to expand...

I'd consider nothing else than a C/S prop for an RV7. I'd give up a lot of other things I consider necessities before doing without a constant speed.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A, Hartzell C/S
 
L.Adamson said:
I'd consider nothing else than a C/S prop for an RV7. I'd give up a lot of other things I consider necessities before doing without a constant speed.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A, Hartzell C/S
Click to expand...

Prop wars again, is like tailwheel/nosewheel, tipup or slider.

If you want a simple, light, inexpensive option, with almost no maintenance, and no overhaul requirements, and you spend most of you time at cruise speeds then Fixed pitch is the way to go. Vans RV FP props are cruise props, the constant speed props really shine during take-off. That said your FP will still outperform/climb any spam can out there.

Determine your mission and budget and then fit your airplane accordingly

My 2c on the other side of the war :D

PS: oops I need to add, if you spec an engine for constant speed (+/-$500 option when I bought) you can still fit a FP to it so that future proves your airplane if you ever do decide to upgrade to a $6,000 CS prop option.
 
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Engine / FWF Thoughts

I purchased a new IO-360 from Aerosport - after a lot of discussion with them and other vendors. No regrets at all.

Part of the discussion concerned the applicability of the Vans FWF kit. Sue and Bart talked me through it - as did the parts folks at Vans. Couple of screw ups - for example I ordered a separate prop governor bracket, not realizing it was in the FWF kit. But so far the FWF stuff has gone well.

I'm currently finishing the baffles. Talk about a learning curve! My contention is if you can eventually figure out the baffles (and you're ultimately going to have to do it) you certainly have the skill to handle minor deltas with the FWF kit.
 
RudiGreyling said:
If you want a simple, light, inexpensive option, with almost no maintenance, and no overhaul requirements, and you spend most of you time at cruise speeds then Fixed pitch is the way to go. Vans RV FP props are cruise props, the constant speed props really shine during take-off. That said your FP will still outperform/climb any spam can out there.
Click to expand...

I keep hearing this "simple & light" & think 60HP Piper Cub.... :D

Now....... if you want amazing takeoff performance, the ability to back off the rpms in cruise for a quieter ride (it really does make a diffference), and the option of easily managing airspeeds on the approach, then by all means, do get a C/S prop.

As to maintenance; yes, I throw in a couple of squirts of grease during the condition inspection. :rolleyes:

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Not prop wars....just reality

RudiGreyling said:
That said your FP will still outperform/climb any spam can out there.
Click to expand...

I don't fly with spam cans. I fly with other RV pilots. With a FP prop I am the lowest denominator in almost all phases of flight. Fact.

If you want the best performing RV (and don't compare it to a Cessna 172), a constant speed prop is the way to go.

PS: Big engine too.
 
Rudi, all the aftermarket builders are going to be more expensive than a Lycoming bought through Vans. You are paying for the attention to detail and custom modifications for power and reliability. Monte's site is gummed up with bad flash, but at least they have nice music:

http://www.bpaengines.com/site.html


Hans
 
Ron Lee said:
I don't fly with spam cans. I fly with other RV pilots. With a FP prop I am the lowest denominator in almost all phases of flight. Fact.

If you want the best performing RV (and don't compare it to a Cessna 172), a constant speed prop is the way to go.

PS: Big engine too.
Click to expand...

I knew I was going to step into Prop wars when I took the bait...Build it the way you like it...I like mine the way it is...Simple and light with +/- 6K$ to spend on other stuff! It is all a balancing act, you need to be happy with what you got.

Back to the topic at hand. I ordered my new engine from Vans / Lycoming, after the XP debacle, I want to know the shop I deal with is going to be here for a long time. My engine has already shipped, and I see some here on the forum some guys are still waiting on smaller shops to ship theirs even though they ordered months before me. Being out in SA far away, this gives me a bit more piece of mind.

Regards
Rudi
 
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