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Leather and/or Nomex?

T

TXFlyGuy

Well Known Member
How many of you RV pilots fly with protective clothing? Like Nomex flight suits, boots, gloves, underwear, and leather?

It can make the difference in a post crash fire, getting out alive, or not.

And, what about a flight helmet?
 
Sadly, although I own all of that stuff for my other job, I don't use it with the RV. I should rethink that decision.
 
A friend of mine always wears a helmet, leather boots & gloves, nomex flight suit and underwear. He said I should do the same. Having watched several flame tests with various fabrics, including cotton, poly/cotton, nomex, and leather, it is clear that your chances of surviving a past crash fire wearing blue jeans and a polo shirt are slim and none...and Slim just left town.

No, I'm not a fatalist, just being prudent.
 
I wonder

All Boy Scouts are prepared for sure... but!

Has anyone have any stats on the exact number of fires in an RV and also of those how many were seriously disfigured.

Before the flames get going I am just saying that it is a good idea but I have scared myself almost OUT of the air by reading accident reports and youtubes of failing planes and crashes. This seems like the same.

I wear Nomex on the job so I know its value.

Still I wonder how many RV fires there have been?
 
Why?

So put things in perspective. Do you wear protective clothing when you drive your car? Never. How about when you fly commercial? Never. How about when you go to the local track to drag race your '91 Blown 349cu nitrous Mustang? Yeah of course.

I too own all that stuff from a previous flying career, but really the probability to need it is low enough to be negligible....unless you are purposely doing risky activities with your plane.

Straight and level VFR or IFR to get someplace? Not gonna do it. Doing aerobatics or working on formation stuff, you bet.

Remember our nomex flight suits were an outgrown of wearing a coverall over our uniforms cause planes were dirty, cockpits were dirty, uniforms were/are expensive. When nomex came along, yeah it was two birds with one stone, and the "bag" became a uniform. But it didnt start off that way.
 
maniago said:
.....Doing aerobatics or working on formation stuff, you bet...
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That pretty well covers it. I would also add flight testing during the first 25 to 40 hours. I think that this is higher risk than aero or formation.
 
vlittle said:
That pretty well covers it. I would also add flight testing during the first 25 to 40 hours. I think that this is higher risk than aero or formation.
Click to expand...

yes indeed, I agree whole heartedly with wearing gear during flight test, though I'll be wearing sneakers cause I get much better tailwheel and brake control than I ever could with boots. For me losing it on the runway is a higher risk than having my feet subsequently burned off. Just me tho.
 
Let's see.

Shorts - Check
T-shirt - Check
Sandals - Check (Sometimes I even kick those off.)
Sunglasses - Check

Nomex - Left in the box of race gear
Helmet - Nope, don't own one for flying
Parachute - Nope, don't own one but did borrow one during my 40.
Other safety gear - Nope

If flying is that dangerous, I don't want to do it. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't really care. If I were to wear that stuff in a 172, then I would probably wear it in my RV but since I don't fly an F16, I don't use that stuff.

(Test flights are something else altogether.)
 
I have started wearing my flight helmet, not so much for crash protection, more because I worry (too much?) about a bird strike and the visors give me a little more protection. Our airport is right next to the city dump and I have seen the odd bird go by a little close for comfort.

I have a Nomex flight suit and wore it for the first 40 hours, but don't wear it any longer.
 
My friend owns and flies a P-51, and it was his suggestion. The mission profile may dictate your amount and type of protection. High G aerobatics and close formation work, probably a good idea to have the cheap insurance of fire retardant clothing, and maybe a flight helmet.
I think post crash fires are pretty rare, in RV's, as well as other experimental aircraft.

Just found this: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/plane-fires-crashes-deaths/16530225/
 
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I watched a few videos on YouTube showing a "Thermo-Man" manikin dressed in various flame resistant clothing that was subject to high intensity flames for various duration's. Thermo-Man has sensors that record the level, extent and location of burns received during the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWmTZphX0bo

The orators of the videos do a good job of explaining, in mostly subjective terms, the type and size of burns that would have been inflicted had the manikin been a human.

Trying to imagine a fire of that intensity inside the cockpit of any aircraft is frightening to say the least.

I don't wear shorts when I fly. I try to avoid wearing polyester and nylon. I'm considering buying some flame resistant clothing. NFPA 2112 rating.
 
Helmet, nomex suit, and nomex/leather gloves for formation work. Leather upper, but unfortunately rubber soled, shoes as well. I usually wear all that when solo as well, if i'm in the mood for working in three dimensions.

When carrying passengers, I usually forego the gear and just wear street clothes and a Lightspeed headset instead. Ball cap if a visor is needed.
 
Any suggestions/wisdom on where to get "good quality" flight suits? They seem readily available surplus, but 3rd parties make suits "to the same mil spec" but in a variety of colors, etc (ie, not olive drab).

Know of any good and reliable suppliers? I'm planning on wearing one for my first flights.
 
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I haven't had any luck in finding it using the 'search' function, but in a previous discussion thread on this forum, I was advised against wearing leather footwear because it contracts around the foot when exposed to flame. I wish I could find that thread as it held much sage advice.
 
wjb said:
Any suggestions/wisdom on where to get "good quality" flight suits? They seem readily available surplus, but 3rd parties make suits "to the same mil spec" but in a variety of colors, etc (ie, not olive drab).

Know of any good and reliable suppliers? I'm planning on wearing one for my first flights.
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Gibson & Barnes is a good supplier. They carry everything you could ask for, including gloves, boots, socks, under garments, full nomex flight suits, etc.

www.gibson-barnes.com
 
Yep

Yes, I have the whole kit. And an HGU-68P. I found that I like it all to be there for the early test phases and also if I have any concerns with the aircraft at any time in order to put it back in service after a repair or adjustment. However the class three underwear, flight suite, cloves all get very sweaty in the summer and I leave them in the bag, when I am just going someplace with no hard handling in mind. I have to admit I do wear the helmet most of the time, with a head sock. I find that with a hush-kit installed in it and the helmet shell, blocking a lot of sound waves, that it is as good if not better than having an "ANR" head-set. The pull down visor is also a good idea with both the sun and if you were to have a bird strike. Wearing cotton and leather is always a good idea and does add to the safety aspect of flying, but even then it only adds a few more seconds of time before you start to cook. Even a full fledged fire burn suite will only add a couple of minutes to your time. Just what we have come to do at present. Yours, R.E.A. III #80888
 
wjb said:
Any suggestions/wisdom on where to get "good quality" flight suits? They seem readily available surplus, but 3rd parties make suits "to the same mil spec" but in a variety of colors, etc (ie, not olive drab).
Click to expand...
I had a green one originally, but then searched out a desert tan one instead. The lighter colour is cooler in the summer. Both of mine came from eBay, for less than $50 each. You would be hard pressed to find a new nomex flight suit for an economical price.

Canadian_JOY said:
in a previous discussion thread on this forum, I was advised against wearing leather footwear because it contracts around the foot when exposed to flame. I wish I could find that thread as it held much sage advice.
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Interesting... I wonder if applying flame retardant treatment prevents that? The fire retardant gloves I have (which I thought were military surplus or equivalent) have leather palms and slightly stretchy fabric backs.
 
I bought a surplus flight suit at a military store in El Cajon. It cost around $40. Looks like new. Also got some gloves. I only wore them during Phase 1, but now I don't wear it. I guess it's because it looks a bit pretentious wearing a military flight suit, and my passenger wouldn't have one on.
 
I still have all this stuff from my military days. But now I can't begin to "zip" the flight suits closed anymore,::D:D:D and the rubber in my helmet's has all disintegrated. Still got my nomex gloves though. In good shape even..:D
 
Canadian_JOY said:
Got the link to work by typing it in manually. Who knows what little gremlins were causing it not to work when clicking on it.

Watching that video makes one want to wear Nomex whenever flying.
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Well, since you have to wear something, it might as well keep you safe!
 
Fire Suppressant ideas

When I began building my 9A in '99 I wanted to attempt to add some safety related updates to it along the way, and therefore acquired the same explosion suppressant foam that goes into F-15 Eagles. When I built the fuel tanks I added the foam to each bay between the ribs, in hopes of having it give me some extra time to egress, should I ever have to go down "off airport" and tear the wings up, etc. Hopefully you never have see if things like that work or not! :)
 
Nomex & helmets

Great ideas guys but flying in a bubble canopy airplane in the Missouri summers with all that stuff is a bit beyond my comfort level. And low altitude formation airshows- fogetaboutit

Safety 1st then absolutely wear Nomex, a helmet, gloves, boots, G suit, parachute, fireproof underwear, etc. But in an RV it's a bit cumbersome with all that stuff (I tried it ONCE-well just the suit & helmet anyway). And the -4 is not known for it's abundance of extra room.

Just my 2 cents
 
Being paranoid about fire and having worked in a burn unit... I always wear a military surplus nomex flight suit. Purchased mine and also one for my copilot for under $100 at a military surplus store together with nomes gloves. In colder weather (now) I usually wear nomes underwear ( automotive racer stuff) as well. Not real expensive, comfortable and just toss in in the washer.
At my age I am past the phase of looking (or trying to look) cool.
The suits are comfortable and have lots of pockets for all the stuff that I do not need to carry. It may just give me a few extra seconds to get out in a crash.
Just my $.02.
 
Gisnar said:
Being paranoid about fire and having worked in a burn unit... I always wear a military surplus nomex flight suit. Purchased mine and also one for my copilot for under $100 at a military surplus store together with nomes gloves. In colder weather (now) I usually wear nomes underwear ( automotive racer stuff) as well. Not real expensive, comfortable and just toss in in the washer.
At my age I am past the phase of looking (or trying to look) cool.
The suits are comfortable and have lots of pockets for all the stuff that I do not need to carry. It may just give me a few extra seconds to get out in a crash.
Just my $.02.
Click to expand...

Very good going. I would look up washing your Nomex, as most of the stuff has a hand wash and air dry label in the care instructions. Tossing it in the washer is said to degrade the fire retardant ability in the fabric. Just a heads up, Yours, R.E.A. III #80888
 
I have read that Carbon-X underwear is far more comfortable than nomex. Anyone here familiar with Carbon-X?
My friend buys his nomex from the racing websites.
 
Used Nomex Flight Suits

Gisnar said:
Being paranoid about fire and having worked in a burn unit... I always wear a military surplus nome flight suit...
Click to expand...

You gotta just make sure you buy nearly new ones for the $100. The more the original owner washed it, the less effective the nomex will be...

Doug

RV-9A Mazda 13B/FWF
RV-3A sold
 
Robert Anglin said:
Very good going. I would look up washing your Nomex, as most of the stuff has a hand wash and air dry label in the care instructions. Tossing it in the washer is said to degrade the fire retardant ability in the fabric. Just a heads up, Yours, R.E.A. III #80888
Click to expand...

Nomex is inherently fire-resistant, it cannot "wash out." You can machine wash CWU-27/P flight suits in cold water and gentle cycle, and tumble dry on low heat per label instructions. Do no dry clean. Do not use starch or fabric softeners because they leave waxy residues that could conceivably support combustion. At some point normal wear and tear (which includes washing) will reduce the suit's effectiveness, and it will need to be replaced. Clothing does wear out.
 
we don' need no steenkin' instructions.......

hey, we're guys......washing clothes?.....reading labels?????

yep, in typical military fashion, the label on my old Nomex suit says to machine wash, tumble dry - low, I think, and even 'close velcro' so it doesn't stick to itself!

I DO appreciate the info on the new versions, some seem out to sell product, of course....
I think most of the crash scenarios where there is fire, if you are conscious, and have a couple extra seconds to get out, great, otherwise, the smoke and heat is gonna getcha regardless.
IN-flight is the scariest, for sure, but also pretty rare.... and nearly impossible to navigate to a happy ending.

my $.031 cdn
 
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