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Dual Skyview screens in RV-12

Ex Bonanza Bucko

Well Known Member
I think I'm gonna do this. But I'd like to know a couple of things first if you have this installation:

1.)How does the "swap" command work and where is the "button" for that?

2.)How good and complete is the installation kit and book?

3.)Does the starboard side screen need a panel insert to cant it to the left for bette visibility or is it OK installed the same way as the port side screen..flat?

4.)Is the tray that comes along with the second screen for the POH and cockpit junk worth installing?

EBB
 
EBB,

Just wondering, if you have approval to do the second screen installation using the kit approved by Vans, do you have the option to cherry pick? I mean, can you decide to opt not to have the POH tray or because you're SLSA you HAVE to do it by the book?
 
The Dynon SkyView system is made by Dynon.

Dynon issue (and update regularly) complete and very good installation and user guide manuals. Both are available from, not surprisingly, Dynon - on their website. Free.

http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/support_documentation.html

And there is a Dynon SkyView forum as well.

And personally, I don't have a problem reading the flat mounted P2 screen from the P1 position. Oh, and I find the POH tray excellent for holding the POH.....
 
Why keep starting new threads for things that already have threads that even the most minimal search will find? That is not good form on the forum, it makes it more difficult for everyone to find the relevant info on a topic. I appreciate that this was pointed out to me when I was a newbie on the forum.

And as Jerry says, most of your questions are answered by looking at the manuals from Dynon. The second Skyview needs power, an Ethernet wire to the other screen, parallel wiring of the serial ports, and a connection to the Skyview network. It is not difficult.

As an SLSA buyer you may not have the Rv12 plans? If you did you would be familiar with the high level of completeness in any subkit or option issued by Vans. The plans are highly recommended for any SLSA owner.
 
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For Top Cat:
I don't think the POH tray is required and I will probably not use it. I would rather have one of the fabric pockets Van's sells for the port or starboard sides of the cockpit. I have one of the POH tray kits and I find it a little less than good.
EBB
 
I do not intend to order plans for the RV12 kits. I am an S-LSA owner and I expect to be treated as the owner of one and not as a kit plane builder. I did not find the info I needed on the Dynon web sites and I intend to keep posting questions here. I don't find comments about the efficacy or appropriateness of my posts here to be helpful.
End of story and message.
EBB:-(

Why keep starting new threads for things that already have threads that even the most minimal search will find? That is not good form on the forum, it makes it more difficult for everyone to find the relevant info on a topic. I appreciate that this was pointed out to me when I was a newbie on the forum.

And as Jerry says, most of your questions are answered by looking at the manuals from Dynon. The second Skyview needs power, an Ethernet wire to the other screen, parallel wiring of the serial ports, and a connection to the Skyview network. It is not difficult.

As an SLSA buyer you may not have the Rv12 plans? If you did you would be familiar with the high level of completeness in any subkit or option issued by Vans. The plans are highly recommended for any SLSA owner.
 
I do not intend to order plans for the RV12 kits. I am an S-LSA owner and I expect to be treated as the owner of one and not as a kit plane builder. I did not find the info I needed on the Dynon web sites and I intend to keep posting questions here. I don't find comments about the efficacy or appropriateness of my posts here to be helpful.
End of story and message.
EBB:-(

This is a builders site and the first thing builders learn when they start a project like the RV-12 is humility because there are things we do not fully understand at first. Apparently you do not belong here.
 
Agree with the above. As a forum reader, I am getting a little tired of the same ole same ole from some. We all ask dumb questions sometimes, but c'mon man.

I owned a 152 and still felt it prudent to purchase a "parts manual" similar to the RV-12 plans. It's good to know what is in your airplane.

ALL the dynon info is on their website. It has been posted and linked many times for you.

Don't ask about the POH tray if you already made up your mind.

Perhaps a SLSA -12 forum could be added to and let birds of a feather ..... You know the rest.
 
When I began on the forum I concentrated on the RV12 forum since that is what I was building. I quickly realized that SEARCH was my friend. And that old posts had much vital info in them and by finding them I would both learn other things and not inordinately impose on the good nature of the other builders. I found that a question appended to an existing post on a topic would make that topic show up prominently.

I liked the efficiency of finding an answer to my question already embedded within a series of posts that held other associated useful info, rather than asking people to answer a well-discussed issue over and over again. Or, more embarrassing (to me, anyway) to get a reply that was simply a link to another thread where the question was thoroughly answered, and which I could have found by a simple search. I could take a subtle hint...

I noted in my searching the frustration of finding several posts rehashing the same thing, and have endeavored to avoid that inconvenience to others in the community.

Then my interest broadened into the other forums and I learned that most enter via the NEW POSTS button and found that extremely useful.

I was the first to get the ELSA Skyview kit for the RV12 (many of us waiting a long time) and started a well-read thread about the installation and related issues. I found that reading the manuals explained an amazing amount of things. I realized it wasn't the responsibility of Vans to spoon feed me things in the Dynon and Garmin (radio) and ROTAX manuals.

I have been astounded at the amount of knowedge available here and the in-depth expertise of many of the members. And their willingness to help a total novice. I've been grateful for that help and tried to pass it on if related to a question I felt comfortable answering, based on experience.

I WISH that detailed plans were available for the prior certified planes I've owned because they would have been so helpful in understanding the maintenance issues, even though I could not perform certain tasks (not being an A&P.) Plus, there are lots of "aha" moments in "look at section 42C."

I am an ISA Fellow in control systems and have 2 Engineering books on Amazon, but I have a LOT TO LEARN from everyone else on this forum when it comes to building and operating RVs. I only mention those personal "credentials" to point out that they are absolutely minuscule in comparison to those of others in this forum!

Common sense would tell one that post after post that begin with a complaining tone, and an attitude that "Because I could write a check for a completed plane, I'm entitled to make whatever whiny complaint I like and ask whatever question I like in any way I like and to heck with community norms" will become tiresome to those with knowledge obtained through study and building.

Advice is like a drink. It only affects you if you take it.
 
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This is a builders site and the first thing builders learn when they start a project like the RV-12 is humility because there are things we do not fully understand at first. Apparently you do not belong here.

Well, as new RV-12 SLSA owners you have certainly put us in our place.

I'm not a builder, but I chose to buy the same kit as you though assembled by Synergy for Vans. I'm sorry you find it tedious to have to read some of our questions. I have in fact spent a lot of time on this site searching for answers, sometimes I've found it, sometimes not.

Having been made welcome by many here there seem to be some rather condescending 'builder-culture' types who apparently don't understand the frustrations and the rapid learning curve needed by a new SLSA owner. Perhaps they could care less.

I have spoken with EBB and found him a friendly fellow who has a passion for airplanes and a lot of experience in all sorts of flying. He is certainly a fan of the RV-12 and Rotax engines and, like myself, has found many aspects of dealing with Vans, Rotax and some members on this forum frustrating at times.

Perhaps I'll move on and see if there is another RV-12 forum a little less discriminating.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog
This is a builders site and the first thing builders learn when they start a project like the RV-12 is humility because there are things we do not fully understand at first. Apparently you do not belong here.

A rather uninformed opinion, I too chose to buy rather than build as did half of the RV owners I fly with. I dare say that many of the posts found on this forum deal with small issues or tweaking that occur hours after fight worthiness is achieved. I have found this site to be an invaluable source of information, encouragement and comraderie for ALL of us who have choosen to enjoy the characteristics of the various models designed by Vans. This is a forum dedicated to Vans enthusiasts of all interests. ;)
 
The OP of this thread has started at least 5 other threads covering similar topics that could be consolidated to 1 or 2 threads. The tone is the same in all, questioning methods by the "factory" (engine and airframe) and then stating that those methods are insuffecient to his liking. Also insistent that proper documentation is lacking when in truth it is not.

Of course there is a learning curve for a new owner wether it's SLSA or ELSA / EAB. The holier than thou approach is not the best. I don't care wether you have owned 15 Bonanzas or how much flight time you have. The -12 and the "experimental" playbook is a little different.

To state that you have no interest in obtaining the kit plans for your airplane when many of your questions can be answered by them......and then putting that in what could be considered condescending tone does not sit well with those offering advice here.
 
K. Edmonds and Top Cat - I LOVE that you bought an SLSA and find this sub-forum useful and we all welcome the SLSA owners. (The SLSAs raised the value of all our ELSAs!) All of the certified world "type clubs" do similar good. We have the additional benefit of having plans and actual builder experience weighing in on the issues compared to those clubs. And factory experts as well, certainly unlike most type clubs/forums.

I came to the forum, and to the various builder blogs, of wanting to learn from those that had gone before me. (Not to dictate to them.) That seems to be the most common attitude throughout the VAF a and has been invaluable in my build and subsequent operation.
 
Everyone with an interest in RV-12s is welcome here except complainers. I get enough complaints from my husband and do not want to read them here also. Oops, did I complain? Sorry. :D
 
A feature of the forum that I use occasionally is the "ignore list". Go to the User CP tab and click on Buddy/Ignore list and you can add user IDs. Posts from people on your ignore list will not display.

Sometimes, it's the only way to make one's life less stressful.
 
I think part of the frustration here for both the OP and some of the posters, is that in some cases "we" are all ships kind of passing in the night on specifics. There are both technical, functional, and legal perspectives that differentiate what you can do with the S-LSA (and I think/hope everyone would gladly welcome any of the SLSA folks here, I know I do) verses the E-LSA and the E-AB versions of the RV12. There also has not been a terrible amount of discussion on the SLSA and upgrades (mainly due to now many are out there and how relatively new they are).

In regards to the SLSA specifically; the options are quite different from a legal perspective as compared to the ELSA. One simply does not have the authority to remove/replace things at will, and if you do choose to update/upgrade the airplane - then it must be permitted and certified by the mfgr of said SLSA. We've done a whole pile of varying SLSA upgrades and retrofits over the years (Tecnam, CT, Evektor, Czech, etc..) and there are varying levels of approvals from each company as to what they allow you to do.

In the case of the RV12's, one would need to contact Vans to see what "approved" upgrade/modification allowances and/or kits they have for the SLSA and the Skyview as it relates to adding a screen. I'm sorry I don't have any exact answers for you, but the factory would be my first starting point. It's also different as to WHO can do the modifications and the relative paperwork for those modifications as compared to the "E" versions of the planes, so one would need to take that into account as well.

Last note - I'm happy with ALL the RV-12 builders, because we have been lucky enough to be able to supply various parts for both the EAB/ELSA and SLSA versions....so to me, you're all welcome on board as members of the Vans community...buyers and/or builders alike.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
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Personally, I don't have an issue with anyone 'using' the forum, be they builders, prospective builders, buyers of completed secondhand aircraft or new 'factory' machines.

I think the search function here works very well but sometimes the info on the subject in question might be out of date.

But, if you can find the SkyView discussion forum and post questions there, I'm sure one can find the product documentation page on the main website.... One might question the wisdom though, of asking how to install a Rotax supplied voltage regulator in a Van's RV-12 on a Dynon SkyView discussion forum. ;)

It isn't really surprising that if one consistently posts their complaints on a forum that is 100% biased towards a particular aircraft (or car, motorcycle, lawn mower etc) then some might find this a bit tiresome - especially when the poster is very much in the minority with their complaint or even factually incorrect.
 
Love all, serve all! -- hey, maybe I should start a restaurant chain! :D

Touche' :)

I get your point totally, as well as others' frustrations, but I also see SLSA owners wanting to treat (or assuming they can treat) their airplanes like "E's", and some "E" builders not necessarily understanding that the "S's" are almost an entirely different animal with both parties sometimes talking right past each other.

Cheers,
Stein
 
It ain't that. Since the SLSA-12 was introduced there has been plenty of advice and guidance pointing out the differences between a possible solution to an issue on an ELSA vs. very different requirements on an SLSA. There is no animosity at all towards SLSA.

The PATIENCE and SUPPORT of the VAF community with newbie questions is MASSIVE - I know because when I first started on my RV12 I probably tested that patience!!! We all expect that - it is a huge pool of knowledge you need to drink from when starting an aircraft build.

No, the issue is this:
+++++++++++++++++
Threads started by EBB on the same topic (and also when other existing threads on those topics were active and contained questions by and answers to EBB):

"Dual Skyview screens in RV-12"
"Wiring diagram for moving VR with second Skview"
"Move voltage regulator for dual Skyview installation"
"Dual Skyviews in S-LSA?"
"Skyview Ser# for second screen"

And another group:
"Rotax Carb float SB"
"SB and failure problems" (about carb floats)
"Legal, FAA meaning of "mandatory" in the carb float SB"
"G2 on new float availability"
"Float SB video"
"AD on carb floats"
"Remove the drip pan on 912ULS"

There are more examples than these...

The issue with doing this was pointed out gently. Links to other relevant threads were provided in responding. Links to documentation containing answers were provided. Didn't seem to make a difference, particularly in the tone of many of the posts, and a perceived unwillingness to read documentation or look at a downloadable plans page. Finally, and still somewhat diplomatically:

"Why keep starting new threads for things that already have threads that even the most minimal search will find? That is not good form on the forum, it makes it more difficult for everyone to find the relevant info on a topic. I appreciate that this was pointed out to me when I was a newbie on the forum."

The response was:
*** "I intend to keep posting questions here. I don't find comments about the efficacy or appropriateness of my posts here to be helpful. End of story and message." ***

My personal email has had a bunch of responses from other VAF members expressing frustration with this attitude and the tone of questions and complaints. So hopefully, that will change.
++++++++++++

It has nothing to do with the very positive introduction of SLSA into our community.

Moderator, please delete if too harsh; that is not the intent.
 
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