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Tail wheel takeoff technique for bumps

StickNRudder

Active Member
I had an unpleasant takeoff from Catalina island. I am a tail wheel noob and my normal takeoff technique is to fly the tail early so I can see. While on the roll at Catalina near rotate speed, I hit a hump in the runway which launched me in the air. I got the nose down and accelerated and continued flying but it was not pleasant (and it was my Wife?s first trip in the plane).

I am pretty sure that when the wheels hit the hump, the inertia of the tail kept it where it was with the nose rising, increasing the AOA inducing a premature lift off. The question is, what is the best technique to prevent that.
 
I don't think you did anything wrong, but you probably could have lifted off a bit earlier.

I have refused to go to AVX in my -10 - the runway was rough 3 years ago when we had our C-172 and I've heard it is in bad shape now. I would think they would take some of the $$$ they charge for landing fees and fix the runway!

-Marc
 
I fly an RV8 off a fairly rough grass airstrip. One direction on the runway there is a dip that is a guarantee to bounce you into the air. 2 up it will settle back to the ground. 1 up it might stay airborne but might not. I just keep a tailwheel low attitude no matter what it does and let the airplane fly when it's ready. I might use a little more back pressure on the stick if that will soften the bounce or release pressure to keep it in ground effect if it does want to fly, always trying to keep that similar attitude. It could be different every time.

So on overall technique, keep a set attitude, let the plane fly when it wants, fly it when it does!
 
I am not familiar with this runway but knowing that it only takes a few hundred feet to get into the air in an RV gives you more options. It means that you do not have to start your roll at the end of the runway. Perhaps you could start your roll just before, or on top of the “hill” and thus avoiding the problem area. Typically it is safer to use the whole runway but sometimes it is not. Use all the advantages that the RV gives you.
 
KPAO is interesting like that, at least it was for me last time I took off from there.

There's a low spot in the runway where your wheels leave the ground, then contact it again on the other side of the dip. If you're not ready for it, it can be a surprise. Not a big thing, I just gracelessly bounced into the air slightly ahead of schedule but it was not the slickest-feeling takeoff I've ever done.
 
Sometimes there's not much you can do to avoid getting bounced into the air prematurely. No need to raise the tail high for takeoff, hold it tail low and accept what comes. Partial flap doesn't hurt. If you get bounced into the air before you intend to lift off, hold the stick steady just like you would for a bounce on landing. No need to significantly lower the nose, just don't let it keep coming up. It's very unlikely you'll ever get close to stalling. At full power, an extremely nose high attitude would be required to stall. Full power on stall attitude is significantly more nose high than a power off stall attitude - much steeper than the airplane sits 3-point. In addition to this, you'd need to have the stick near fully aft to stall. Go to altitude and mess with full power stalls. There is really little to fear in flying the airplane prematurely at very low airspeed (even below power off stall speed) in ground effect long enough for the airplane to accelerate to normal climb speed. Just use common sense in gusty conditions. Stall speed is also significantly reduced under full power. Just be sure to use that right rudder as needed in a high power low airspeed configuration.
 
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Airnav has this to say about AVX:

Surface: asphalt, in fair condition(?)
POTHOLES AND LOOSE PAVEMENT FRAGMENTS ON RY.

- SFC ROUGH WITH NMRS POTHOLES & SOFT SPOTS.

Don't need it can't use it..... There are too many quality places to fly that don't charge landings fees and take care of their runways. I don't mind the landing fees but the conservancy needs to spend the $$$ on the airport.

~Marc
 
Thanks. To sum up, ride a little tail low during the takeoff roll. Would it be advisable to keep the tail wheel down completely? Seems like that might avoid the AOA increase during bumps.

As far as Catalina is concerned, I heard that there is a negotiation with the Navy right now. They want to use the field for training. Apparently, if the conservancy buys the material, the Navy will do the work. Catalina is the closest I?ll ever come to an aircraft carrier landing.
 
Years back in a tail dragger forced the tail up a little too soon, crosswind, not much took over and almost found a row of trees after lifting off a little too soon resulted..
 
Make sure the elevator trim is correctly set, lightly collar the stick, slowly advance the power to a slow count of 3 and keep it straight.

Bingo !

Airborne with no fuss or panic.

Raising the tail is an old wive's tale from days of yore when performance and visibility over the nose were lacking. We certainly do not suffer from that and pushing the stick forward can lengthen the take off roll and give a very 'Meerkat' behaviour :rolleyes:
 
Don't think I've heard that one before, lengthened T/off roll whilst on two wheels. Tail up less aerodynamic drag. Near 40 yrs of driving planes & I get the tail up as soon as I can for better tracking, each to their own I guess.
 
Put 500hrs on my -3 and in and out of KAVX a bunch and all but the first hour or two, I used the following technique: Get the TW up to a level attitude asap. Improves visibility, directional control (see #1), decreases angle of attack so you don't get launched in the air prematurely, looks cooler and is more fun ;). Try it, you might like it. Done properly, you can keep the mains (and the airplane) on the ground until long after flying speed (if you wanted to).
 
Put 500hrs on my -3 and in and out of KAVX a bunch and all but the first hour or two, I used the following technique: Get the TW up to a level attitude asap. Improves visibility, directional control (see #1), decreases angle of attack so you don't get launched in the air prematurely, looks cooler and is more fun ;). Try it, you might like it. Done properly, you can keep the mains (and the airplane) on the ground until long after flying speed (if you wanted to).

You hoon:), but it is fun getting that racing car feeling scooting along on the mains only till high speed then going straight up like a Saturn V Rocket:D
 
>You hoon:)

Thank you Sir. Yes, thank you very much..:):) Had to Wiki it and now I have a wonderful new word to add to my personal lexicon. A compliment indeed..:D

>Saturn V Rocket

You fully understand.
 
>You hoon:)

Thank you Sir. Yes, thank you very much..:):) Had to Wiki it and now I have a wonderful new word to add to my personal lexicon. A compliment indeed..:D

>Saturn V Rocket

You fully understand.

Yes the analogy was meant to be of an amusing nature:) We all have a bit of 'Hoon' in us especially when it comes to HP:)

HNY to those across the pond:):)
 
Don't think I've heard that one before, lengthened T/off roll whilst on two wheels. Tail up less aerodynamic drag. Near 40 yrs of driving planes & I get the tail up as soon as I can for better tracking, each to their own I guess.

Hmmm,

Tail up more drag !

You have to push it up :rolleyes:

Tee Hee

Happy New Year from Barbados - at work, suffering a layover ;)
 
I have played with trying to figure out the shortest takeoff rolls in my -9.

Tail up, tail down, flaps up, flaps down, etc.

Keep in mind I have a fixed pitch prop, not that it would make much difference when comparing takeoff lengths in the same plane.

1/3 or full flaps don't seem to make a measurable amount of difference. Thus I set the flaps to 1/3.

If I can avoid stopping, that is best, especially on soft fields, sometimes you just have to stop. Full power with the brakes locked is an option I try to avoid so I don't pickup up FOD.

As I apply power, I let the stick find its natural position and don't lift the tail. The plane will stagger into the air from a three-point position, I then lower the nose, and accelerate an inch or two off the ground before rotating to a Vx climb.

That works well for me and your mileage may very.
 
I have played with trying to figure out the shortest takeoff rolls in my -9.

Tail up, tail down, flaps up, flaps down, etc.

Keep in mind I have a fixed pitch prop, not that it would make much difference when comparing takeoff lengths in the same plane.

1/3 or full flaps don't seem to make a measurable amount of difference. Thus I set the flaps to 1/3.

If I can avoid stopping, that is best, especially on soft fields, sometimes you just have to stop. Full power with the brakes locked is an option I try to avoid so I don't pickup up FOD.

As I apply power, I let the stick find its natural position and don't lift the tail. The plane will stagger into the air from a three-point position, I then lower the nose, and accelerate an inch or two off the ground before rotating to a Vx climb.

That works well for me and your mileage may very.

I rarely see a 9 with conventional gear, much nicer looking plane:)
CSU are far better for getting the rated HP at T/off resulting in a shorter roll but FP is nice & simple:)
 
I rarely see a 9 with conventional gear, much nicer looking plane:)
Neither do I, unless I look in my hangar, but I have to agree, they do look nicer.

CSU are far better for getting the rated HP at T/off resulting in a shorter roll but FP is nice & simple:)
I have to agree but I also like the lightweight and performance of the Catto prop!
 
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