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Panel Layout Choices

Which Panel Arrangement?

  • Steam Gauges Left of EFIS

    Votes: 12 34.3%
  • Steam Gauges Right of EFIS/Vertical

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • Steam Gauges Right of EFIS/Horizontal

    Votes: 18 51.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Av8torTom

Well Known Member
I'm getting ready to start cutting holes in my panel and I'd like input on the three panel arrangements below - thanks:

9d4ba371-a1b7-4e94-b738-2c8d9adf09d3-original.jpg
 
I'd give the nod to either #2 or #3 in case you ever have somebody flying from the right seat. I'm currently doing an RV-6A checkout with the airspeed at the far left, and it's doable but then again, I'm a CFI.

And on #2, I'd move the avionics up higher in the panel... less of a transition from outside to avionics.

Best!

Ed
 
My first panel almost exactly matches your option 1.

It worked out really well.

However, when I installed the SkyView, I removed all the steam gauges and haven't looked back.

It turns out they are only a backup if the EFIS looses power or burns up as it shares the same pitot and static lines.

I now recommend putting in a Dynon PocketPanel as a backup. It doesn't tie into anything but a power plug and has its own internal battery.
 
Option 3

Agree with Bruce, go all digital, but I?d place the standby display below the radios...
 
#2

For the reason?s Ed said. Also, you can eventually replace the steam gages with something like a G5 or GRT mini without major surgery on your panel. The second 3-1/8 hole could perhaps be used for an A/P if you want to keep it seperate from your EFIS. Leaving space above the radios allows for future avionics expansion if you eventually want an IFR aircraft (that?s the reason for the G5 or Mini).
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
If you already have the gauges, Keep the steam! Why? Because you can and it looks cool. It requires no 'trons and you have to run pitot static lines anyway.:D

#3 is my vote - keeps the radios nice and close, and the EFIS in the middle of your view.....the steam is secondary of course. FWIW, I put my steam above my 12" GRT, so both are in direct line of my FOV, but seems you dont have the room for that.......(I dont have an RV...)
 
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My suggestion, if you can't swing the G5, 2nd screen and comm 2 leave those out for now with provisions for them later.
Radio stack in this was designed for easy upgrade to GTN650 by removing comm 2 and extending the cutout.
This is a great VFR panel, but trust me, think upgrade path.

KW-G3X-1200.jpg
 
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My suggestion, if you can't swing the G5, 2nd screen and comm 2 leave those out for now with provisions for them later.
Radio stack in this was designed for easy upgrade to GTN650 by removing comm 2 and extending the cutout.
This is a great VFR panel, but trust me, think upgrade path.

Yes, it's important to me to think forward, that's one of the reasons I'm soliciting other people's opinions. At this point having steam gauges is very important to me. I like the idea of having them closer to the left side of the panel, but don't like the idea of shifting the G3X to the right to accommodate them. I might consider Mike's suggestion of putting the radios above the gauges.
 
Ditch the steam, add a G5, remote mount the comm, plan/layout for upgrades later on.
 
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when my panel went black because I accidentally turned my Avionics off at 21K (hypoxia) and could not understand how to turn it back on, I still had the steam gauges.
 
I'd say steam L of the EFIS as well.

I would also vote G5, with its own backup battery it stays on even when the master goes off.

It will fit the standard hole, so if you make that decision later you'll just have one extra hole to fill over there.

I don't think shifting the GDU to the R a bit will make any noticeable difference. In the original panel on the -10 the main EFIS was well offset from the center of the pilot's seat and I never even thought about it.

You can get the different setups printed full size at Staples or the like, attach them to poster board with spray adhesive and then cut out / put them in the cockpit - that's what I did during the recent -10 upgrade. Really helps give you a feel for where things are.
 
You can get the different setups printed full size at Staples or the like, attach them to poster board with spray adhesive and then cut out / put them in the cockpit - that's what I did during the recent -10 upgrade. Really helps give you a feel for where things are.

I've actually cut out a panel in a thin piece of masonite and I've been mocking-up the switches and circuit breakers. I have some paper cut-outs of the instruments/gauges, that I will glue on today, sit in the cockpit with it and make airplane noises :D
 
Walt has a very good layout.
If you want steam, I'm partial to them on the left, as they will be in your field of vision in the flair and left turns. I still am quicker to pick up the visual cues from a steam gauge and the color markings/trends. I can tell quicker if the pointer is getting in a "bad" place!
 
On the steam, no steam debate. I built the RV-10 with airspeed and altimeter in the center between the two SkyView 10? displays, and above the GTN-650. I always use the airspeed for take off and landing, rarely for anything else. I found I was never using the steam gauge altimeter.

In the new RV-8 project the airspeed instrument will again be used, but no altimeter this time.

If you want, substitute a Dynon D10A into the altimeter hole and have a backup EFIS. I would do the D10A over the Garmin G5.

Carl
 
I favor option 1.

You can save some room by changing to 2 1/4" instruments. That will let you slide the screen left slightly and free up more room on the right side for an additional screen in the future. Perhaps even a glove box.

On my RV-3B project, I'm using the steam airspeed indicator and not installing an altimeter. I feel that I can estimate pattern altitude and mountain clearance altitudes well enough to be safe, and if I'm under (or on top of) a Class B airspace and the EFIS dies, I'll just leave immediately. But keep the altimeter if you don't feel very comfortable otherwise.

Dave
 
I've actually cut out a panel in a thin piece of masonite and I've been mocking-up the switches and circuit breakers. I have some paper cut-outs of the instruments/gauges, that I will glue on today, sit in the cockpit with it and make airplane noises :D

Use some cheap acrylic from Home Depot and you can easily see the possible obstructions to long instruments behind the panel.

glass-panel.jpg
 
I definitely want the PFD directly in front of me. The rest is personal preference but the steam guages are just there for back up. I like #3.
 
Is there any good panel layout software for the Mac?...
I used the windows xpanel in a Parallels VM and it worked fine. I spent a lot of time getting the layout "perfect" and then sent the pictures to Bill at Up North Aviation who ended up re-drawing it, so it was kind of a waste of time. A hand drawn sketch would have been about as effective. My panel is very simple.



On the Mac, I've been using draw.io for my wiring the last few days and it seems pretty good. Might work ok for a panel as well.
 
It's great having both steam and glass, as you can cross-check the values. Part of the reason I went this route was simply aesthetics...the round dials break up the tyranny of the rectangle. :)
 
Round and Square

It's great having both steam and glass, as you can cross-check the values. Part of the reason I went this route was simply aesthetics...the round dials break up the tyranny of the rectangle. :)
I agree! For me there were two factors - 1) Swiss rules require a backup compass and airspeed; 2) I've been looking at round gauges for about 40 years and I wanted a bit of time to transition to the "modern" technology. :)
 
I agree! For me there were two factors - 1) Swiss rules require a backup compass and airspeed; 2) I've been looking at round gauges for about 40 years and I wanted a bit of time to transition to the "modern" technology. :)

But, if you put those two required instruments in, you can easily use 2 1/4 units and use less space - with even not much cost difference.
 
I personally feel it would be irritating to have the main EFIS Primary Flight Display laterally offset from my view center.

Don't know how much you can move stuff around on the EFIS display, but I might go with 3, which seems to have the PFD best aligned with pilot centerline.

I would also put radios in easy reach, and other stuff farther away - in general put the stuff you use most often closest to hand...

-Paragon
 
But, if you put those two required instruments in, you can easily use 2 1/4 units and use less space - with even not much cost difference.

Well Gil, thats true for most instruments, but try and find an altimeter thats 2.25" that actually looks and works as good as its 3.5 cousins, and thats a hard row to hoe. In the end I had to bite the bullet and bought a Winter, but man it was a tough pill to swallow...

14js09k.jpg
 
But, if you put those two required instruments in, you can easily use 2 1/4 units and use less space - with even not much cost difference.

Good idea Gil, but I wasn't able to find any sensitive 2-1/4 altimeters - they're all single hand. Also, I got a good deal on a set of used instruments.
 
I'd vote for #3. Glass centered in front of you where you'll use it most. Radios centered on the panel so easy reach from either seat. I would still put the radios on the bottom, as you don't look at them as often and looking farther down into the cockpit for less-used items is better user-interface design. This also leaves equal space on the right side for a second screen upgrade at a later date. Cut the hole for it to match the left-side screen, and cover with a matching panel... It'll save you the effort later. If you have the panel laser- or water-jet-cut, you can keep the cutout pieces and flush-mount one to keep the panel as clean as possible until you're ready for the second screen. Keep the second one to allow you to experiment with that space... Mount a tablet, camera, map compartment, etc. to the second one and you can remove it by swapping it for the blank insert.

I'd go one step further, and make a full radio "stack" in the center, to allow for future upgrades. Mount the steam gauges between standard radio width mounting rails, and even better mount them on a removable panel that mounts to the standard radio-width mounting rails. Then you can remove them and change that piece of the panel without re-cutting an entire new panel.

As for the necessity of steam: I'd suggest putting a Garmin 660 in there instead. The GPS altitude and airspeed will be good enough for any situation where your main glass completely fails, and the internal battery on the 660 will last until you're on the ground. When you're not in emergency mode, you'll have backup map, HSI, autopilot source, etc. as well.
 
6-pack

If you are an old 6-pack person, then I would suggest go with option 1. Your 6-pack trained eyes will like the go-to steam while you are adjusting to glass. I am a little old school and also have those two same steam gauges in my panel in addition to the new never-fail electronic glass stuff.
 
Good idea Gil, but I wasn't able to find any sensitive 2-1/4 altimeters - they're all single hand. Also, I got a good deal on a set of used instruments.

The Swiss requirement I referenced did not include an altimeter... :)

If you are mainly VFR with no GPS back-up do you really need an altimeter? If you have EFIS/GPS separately powered back-up then GPS altitude is pretty good.
 
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