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Dynon vs. Garmin vs. ?

bobhope2505

Active Member
I'm about to close up the wings and feel like I need to make some decisions about avionics, starting with which pitot tube to install since I'm planning on an AOA indicator. I'm going for full IFR/cross country, and I'm prepared to spend what it takes to get what I want. I've trained behind a G1000 and always assumed I'd go Garmin, but the G1000 involves a lot of button pushing/twisting/page searching and I'm wondering how much of that migrated into the GX3 Touch. (I do want touch screen.) Like everyone else, I've spent hours reading and watching YouTube videos so I don't need general information, but if you've struggled with this decision and there's something that finally pushed you one way or the other, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks. Syrus
 
I own full systems of both in our airplanes, and use both (as well as GRT, MGL, and AFS....), but I’m not going to tell you which I like best, because that is irrelevant. The only thing important at this point in technological time is what works best for YOU - and the only way to know that is to play with them a bit. You’re going to spend close to $30K on an IFR panel before you’re finished, so its worth the time to travel to one of the big shows to get your hands on them. Remember that if you are really going IFR, you are going to be buying a Garmin or Avidyne navigator in addition to the EFIS - and how you interact with those is as important as how you work with the EFIS.

There are hundreds of threads here in the archives of VAF addressing exactly your question - but you’ll only find (lots of) good information - not a decision. You’re not going to find a magic “aha!” Moment that clearly shows that one is better than the other. Get your hands on them, and take the time to see how they work with your brain.

BTW - the G3X Touch is a very different interface than a G1000 (with all the knob twisting and button pushing...), so make sure you don’t go on your old experience when judging that side of the equation.

Good luck!

Paul
 
The G-1000 is only available for experimental in the G-900X configuration, and that is non-touch screen so that would be ruled out. If you want Garmin, the G3X is the current experimental avionics package.

I also trained on a G-1000 system so if I get in a plane with G-1000 avionics I'm right at home. There may be minor nuances to learn, but basically they are all the same. I can't imagine that the G3X varies too much in operation.

Having said that, the DAR that I consulted with when buying an RV advised me to stick with either Garmin, Advanced or Dynon. I still believe that you can't go wrong with any of those choices.

~Marc
 
As been mentioned, comparing the SkyView or G3X to the G1000 demonstrates the excessive button mashing needed on the G1000.

While I hear good things about the G3X, I?m installing another dual SkyView EFIS system in the new project. As side by side comparison between SkyView G3X will get mostly opinions, perhaps you should look to other aspects to make your decision. Specially, consider after the sale support. I offer that while the Garmin G3X group is light years ahead of the Garmin TSO side, Dynon is still (by my evaluation) the gold standard for after the sale support.

One other point - I got burned by the TSO side of Garmin on my RV-10 GTN-650 install (various issue with the unit as it came out of the box). The new install will be the Avidyne IFD440.

Carl
 
Dynon after sales support has been superb.
Garmin after sales support has been far far behind Dynon, and very frustrating, in my experience.
 
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after working in computing on both the development and user side, I'm not a big fan of drop-down menus, that's the main reason I went with AFS and am glad I did. The AFS 5000 series have enough knobs and buttons on the bezel to avoid most menus
 
I own full systems of both in our airplanes, and use both (as well as GRT, MGL, and AFS....), but I?m not going to tell you which I like best, because that is irrelevant. The only thing important at this point in technological time is what works best for YOU - and the only way to know that is to play with them a bit.
Paul

+1
This is certainly good advice. Truth is, 99% of the writers here will advocate for the choices they made (I'm no different! For the record, I went with GRT).
But there is a bit more than "looking and playing", if you're contemplating serious IFR work. (If it's VFR only, do what so many do - pick the prettiest box -:)). For IFR you should make a serious attempt to understand when and when not the box will work. e.g., Does the EFIS maintain a correct AI display if the GPS fails? or the pitot tube? (or both?). Is this an acceptable risk (after all, any piece of electronics can fail)? How will you choose to minimize the risks of equipment failure (this is in fact a hotly debated topic). Do you have a choice of accessories (like an autopilot or ADSB box) or does it only work with its own brand, and if so is that okay with you? etc. etc. As Paul said, this is a major purchase. You owe it to yourself to educate yourself as much as possible. Nothing is perfect, so you need to make the risk/compromise/cost assessment that you are comfortable with.
 
Garmin G3X

I fully admit my bias. Garmin.

Paul Dye has probably forgotten more about this than I will ever know. I had the pleasure of flying his magnificent RV-8 from Houston to 52F in the DFW area.. It was my first flight with a glass cockpit RV-8. I was very impressed with his GRT avionics. My day job was flying the Boeing 777 so I was using state of the art avionics in airliners at the time. That ferry flight in Paul's 8 started me thinking about a panel upgrade for the Doll.

Like you, I was faced with the decision of which manufacture to choose. I flew with Doug Reeves in his G3X equipped RV-6 and was also very impressed with the new Garmin equipment.

Some builders had gone with Blue Mountain avionics and took a huge loss when the company failed. I figured the G in Garmin meant Gorilla...800 pounds worth. As the largest avionics manufacturer in the world, I felt more secure in their survivability.

I wanted to use the GTN 650 navigator. I knew all the Garmin equipment was integrated and works well together as a system. So I chose Garmin. That was 2011.

I am currently helping a friend replace his 2005 GRT equipment with first generation G3X and I'm surprised at the quality of the boxes I'm taking out vs. the ones I'm putting in. IMHO, the difference in the wiring, connectors, and general quality of hardware compared with Garmin G3X is significant. I'm sure a lot of progress has been made since this older equipment was sold.

Garmin's new TSO certified equipment looks a lot like the G3X touch equipment. My gut feeling is that with Garmin you are getting the R&D and quality of the certified Garmin equipment at an experimental price.
 
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I have an Avidyne IFD-540 in my certified plane (Cessna 182), and really like it. It has both a touch interface and knobs and you can accomplish all functions using either interface. Touch is quicker on the ground or in calm air. Buttons work much better when in turbulence, like you might run into in some IFR situations. I?ve had to use both mechanisms and really appreciate having both of them. Holding on to the bezel and trying to hit the right place on the screen is not fun when you?re getting tossed around. Yet touching the screen is much quicker under calm conditions.

I haven?t used the newer Garmins, but compared to the G1000 or GNS430/530 I?ve tried, the Avidyne operating logic is an order of magnitude better. You can download an iPad simulator and try it out.
 
Has anyone had experience with an Avidyne IFD 440 or 540 paired with a G3X? Will the comm and nav frequencies display on the EFIS? Can they be controlled from the EFIS? Will the Avidyne nav info drive the G3X CDI, etc.? I really prefer the IFD to the GTN from an ease of use perspective but even Avidyne says they have not tested their product with the G3X line.
 
Hello,

For those considering a G3X/G3X Touch system, also don't forget the great value on the GTN 625 WAAS IFR navigator.

If you buy the GTN 625 with a G3X system, you qualify for a special price (through June 29, 2018) of $5,675 which includes the installation rack, connectors, SD card and WAAS GPS antenna.

Seems like a good time to also mention that the GTN Garmin Navigation Database pricing for the U.S. is $299/yr. IFR flying is never cheap, but with the GTN 625 providing legal single navigator IFR enroute and WAAS LPV precision approach capability into thousands of runways, this is a pretty attractive solution for EAB. The GTN 625 also provides the ADS-B+ position source data needed by all Garmin (and some other) ADS-B Out capable transponders.

With a G3X Touch system, you don't need the IFR navigator to have a big display. All of the flight plans and approaches loaded on the GTN are large and easy to read on the G3X Touch displays. The IFR navigator just needs to primarily load/activate approaches and provide navigation guidance.

A G3X Touch system with a GTN navigator also supports autopilot coupled one button missed approach activation. Here is a link to a video demonstrating this incredible capability.

Thanks,
Steve
 
I recently went thru this deciding process and finally pulled the trigger in Nov. Now I'm deep into wiring it all together. I can tell you the first and foremost thing you need to decide is not what EFIS, but as Iron said, its the IFR navigator. Thats the central "brain" for your IFR panel. Spend all your current time deciding that, then go play with it, use the simulators, buy manuals and learning books or s/w and have at it for a good month. That'll shape you more into what you really want/need in an EFIS than looking at the YouTube pretty lights.

Then once youve got that down, you must go play with the EFIS' themselves. I can tell you that once I did that, my opinion of my 1,2,3 choices, flipped in order, and entirely because of tactile feel and ability of my eyes and brain to understand what was being displayed. They all do the same job, and all do it fabulously well. But the one you want is the one that speaks to you; at this stage in display development, its the subtle things that make you like something or irritate you. Moreover, somethings you think are important to you based on Youtube, you may find out are not. Keep an open mind, and go with your gut, what everyone else says be damned. PM me if youd like chat more about what I went with and why (I cant seem to get pictures to work on this site no matter what I try). Good luck!

.....oh BTW 30k is the right number to plan on..............
 
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I have struggled with this, and continue to do so. I really want to fall in love with something other than Garmin, especially since I think that the others are more likely to give me options like a real HUD someday, but it's hard to do. When I price out my IFR panel, Dynon comes in a little more than Garmin and with less convenience of use.

I am planning to have a G3X Touch system with a 10.6" MFD on the right side, 10.6" PFD with SiriusXM on the left side, a secondary ADAHRS, two-axis autopilot (I'm still torn on yaw damper in this plane), a G5 backup instrument, heated/regulated pitot tube, GTX 45R transponder, GTR 20 remote radio, GMA 245 audio panel (nice to have real knobs for quick volume adjustments when passenger talks too loud into the mic), and a GTN 650 navigator. With this setup, I can plan my flight on my iPad, get into the plane, transfer from the iPad to the GTN 650, and fly my plan almost entirely from the PFD, including changing radio and transponder settings on the way.

If things start to fail, there is a backup for nearly everything in the plane that will automatically get the data it needs from other sources before they fail. For example, I believe that my altimeter setting in the G3X will propagate to the G5. Less stuff to keep me busy means more brain power for other tasks and less chance of forgetting to set the backup instruments up and only finding my mistake when the PFD and MFD both fail and the backup instrument takes me directly into a mountainside.

With other manufacturers, there is bound to be less integration and thus more workload to keep everything in sync. I am still a long way out from spending actual money to buy actual avionics, so I will keep trying to change my mind. I am excited to go to Oshkosh this year and let the professionals try to help change my mind, too. I just can't at this point see myself paying more money for less integration in the cockpit.
 
Good choice!

I have struggled with this, and continue to do so. I really want to fall in love with something other than Garmin, especially since I think that the others are more likely to give me options like a real HUD someday, but it's hard to do. When I price out my IFR panel, Dynon comes in a little more than Garmin and with less convenience of use.

I am planning to have a G3X Touch system with a 10.6" MFD on the right side, 10.6" PFD with SiriusXM on the left side, a secondary ADAHRS, two-axis autopilot (I'm still torn on yaw damper in this plane), a G5 backup instrument, heated/regulated pitot tube, GTX 45R transponder, GTR 20 remote radio, GMA 245 audio panel (nice to have real knobs for quick volume adjustments when passenger talks too loud into the mic), and a GTN 650 navigator. With this setup, I can plan my flight on my iPad, get into the plane, transfer from the iPad to the GTN 650, and fly my plan almost entirely from the PFD, including changing radio and transponder settings on the way.

If things start to fail, there is a backup for nearly everything in the plane that will automatically get the data it needs from other sources before they fail. For example, I believe that my altimeter setting in the G3X will propagate to the G5. Less stuff to keep me busy means more brain power for other tasks and less chance of forgetting to set the backup instruments up and only finding my mistake when the PFD and MFD both fail and the backup instrument takes me directly into a mountainside.

With other manufacturers, there is bound to be less integration and thus more workload to keep everything in sync. I am still a long way out from spending actual money to buy actual avionics, so I will keep trying to change my mind. I am excited to go to Oshkosh this year and let the professionals try to help change my mind, too. I just can't at this point see myself paying more money for less integration in the cockpit.

Can?t quite fathom why you?re trying to find something other than Garmin. You?ve exactly described the panel I?ve been paid to put in as an upgrade in either an RV or Lancair, 15 times over the last 5 years.

The X team at Garmin are head and shoulders above the others pertaining to support.

A familiar voice in tech support at Dynon is now at Garmin.

Try to get anyone to even answer the phone during normal business hours at GRT.

My experience and my 2 cents!
 
Cannot help myself from stating it again, If we could only have a similar deal on a 650 it would be a done deal :D

I hope it will change soon but for now, ILS is a must in most parts of Europe.

Is there a remote Garmin Nav/Comm with ILS?
 
Can?t quite fathom why you?re trying to find something other than Garmin. You?ve exactly described the panel I?ve been paid to put in as an upgrade in either an RV or Lancair, 15 times over the last 5 years.

The X team at Garmin are head and shoulders above the others pertaining to support.

A familiar voice in tech support at Dynon is now at Garmin.

Try to get anyone to even answer the phone during normal business hours at GRT.

My experience and my 2 cents!

It took me 2 minutes on my phone to find the serial data format for the Dynon EFIS, which is easily enough to feed the attitude portion of a HUD. I can?t find similar information for Garmin. It?s my years of working with open source software that makes me prefer things I can interface with, whether or not I ever take advantage of the possibility.
 
It took me 2 minutes on my phone to find the serial data format for the Dynon EFIS, which is easily enough to feed the attitude portion of a HUD. I can’t find similar information for Garmin. It’s my years of working with open source software that makes me prefer things I can interface with, whether or not I ever take advantage of the possibility.

Super easy to find...

Info starts on page C-1 of rev. AE of the installation manual.
 
Can?t quite fathom why you?re trying to find something other than Garmin.

Try to get anyone to even answer the phone during normal business hours at GRT.

My experience and my 2 cents!

As I said, everyone loves what they bought (or sell).
But IMHO it should stop short of slander. There was a time when phone support at GRT was spotty. But that has not been the case for years now.
 
Chocolate or Vanilla

Yes, and in my case I chose Chocolate (Garmin?) over Vanilla (Dynon?)

Both are delicious, for me the nudge to Garmin two years ago was the deal on the GTN 625 (which was similar to the one mentioned by G3xpert above) and the introduction of the G5. The discount was the deciding factor.

Both Dynon and Garmin had everything I wanted at similar total price with small wins over each other on different technical issues.

Garmin didn't have it in the bag however, if they had not allowed Foreflight to function with the G3x they would have been out despite the discount on a GTN 625.

One of Dynon's engineers is a fellow Sonex builder I know and I felt sheepish telling him I was leaning to Garmin since he was so helpful in explaining the ins and outs of the Dynon equipment. I never doubted I would get good service from Dynon.

The G3xperts have been excellent to work with the few times I needed any thing - which hasn't been often. I have also dealt favorably with Garmin on servo issues.

You can't go wrong either way. (Not to slight GRT, but I have little knowledge of their products)
 
Thank you all for your input. I am preparing for a an upgrade to my 4-5 year old G3X non touch 7" screens to a 10.6" GDU460 PFD, and 8" on the left GTN650, GTX345, GMC307, etc. on my RV-10.
 
Another option that you might want to consider. I have a duel screen Adavnced Flight Systems 5600, with an Avidyne 540. This combination has the latest in cutting edge tech and still has the full support of Dynon/AFS. This combination does everything but serve me coffee and peanuts when I,m flying. So far, it has been totally reliable. If you?re a gadget guy, this is the way to go.
 
Is there a remote Garmin Nav/Comm with ILS?

Nobody ever answered this question. I'd like to know as well. On the RV-14, a good chunk of panel space at the top center is taken by the canopy jettison handle if installed (I'm installing one on my bird).

I'd love mount a remote NAV/COMM behind the panel to save some center stack space. The only remote Garmin offers is the GTR-20 which is COMM only. The only Garmin option for a NAV/COMM seems to be the GNC-255.

Are there any options for a remote NAV/COMM?
 
Nobody ever answered this question. I'd like to know as well. On the RV-14, a good chunk of panel space at the top center is taken by the canopy jettison handle if installed (I'm installing one on my bird).

I'd love mount a remote NAV/COMM behind the panel to save some center stack space. The only remote Garmin offers is the GTR-20 which is COMM only. The only Garmin option for a NAV/COMM seems to be the GNC-255.

Are there any options for a remote NAV/COMM?

I've studied a bunch of panel photos and I think you can get a everything in with the jettison handle - options for remote xponder and audio panel also help make this possible, so probably can get 2nd panel mounted navcomm in place. seems like there should be a way to minimize space taken by the jettison handle also.
 
Nobody ever answered this question. I'd like to know as well. On the RV-14, a good chunk of panel space at the top center is taken by the canopy jettison handle if installed (I'm installing one on my bird).

I'd love mount a remote NAV/COMM behind the panel to save some center stack space. The only remote Garmin offers is the GTR-20 which is COMM only. The only Garmin option for a NAV/COMM seems to be the GNC-255.

Are there any options for a remote NAV/COMM?

No remote nav/comm unit that I?m aware of... Although you can fit 4-5 stack units in a 14 panel under the jettison handle. 2 if you go with a larger 750/540 type cert nav/comm/gps.
 
Don't forget to include the costs of the updates in your decision making.

VFR chart updates for the Dynon are free. (I just paid $66.99 for a year of IFR updates from Seattle Avionics.)

I'm not sure of the cost for Garmin products are but it is worth looking into.
 
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