MartySantic
Well Known Member
Anyone installing the Navworx in the RV-12? Would like to know how the install is progressing. The website indicates shipping was to begin on March 1.
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Navworx ADS600-EXP ADS-B Install
- Thread starter MartySantic
- Start date
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Are you using a wi-fi link to an IPad for ADS-B In?
Since Apple put out iOS 8 my Wi-Fi links has been dropping out intermittently on the FreeFlight XVR978 unit I installed in my Cherokee and my 12. My iPhone 5S still runs iOS 7 and WingX works fine right along side of the IPad. I don't know if this is a problem for other receivers on WiFi, but my Dual 170 receiver works fine on Bluetooth with the IPad.
It really sucks when you spend the extra to get ADS-B In and have to use a portable receiver to get it!
Since Apple put out iOS 8 my Wi-Fi links has been dropping out intermittently on the FreeFlight XVR978 unit I installed in my Cherokee and my 12. My iPhone 5S still runs iOS 7 and WingX works fine right along side of the IPad. I don't know if this is a problem for other receivers on WiFi, but my Dual 170 receiver works fine on Bluetooth with the IPad.
It really sucks when you spend the extra to get ADS-B In and have to use a portable receiver to get it!
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Steve,
I don't know if iOS 8 caused problems for others, but I have let FreeFlight and WingX know about it.
Rich
I don't know if iOS 8 caused problems for others, but I have let FreeFlight and WingX know about it.
Rich
AllThumbs
Well Known Member
<UPDATE> I've been asked to take some pix of our install and wiring changes. I'll try and document this work for others who have a GTX-327 transponder and D180 installation. I'll post pictures to this thread when I have them. </UPDATE>
I'm prepping a local RV-12 for an ADS600EXP we have ordered. We do not have the box yet, but we did ask for the install manual and to get the GPS antenna in advance. NavWorx has been very responsive to my many questions. So far there are only a few typos in the very complete install manual.
On the -12 we plan to mount the 1 lb 7"x5" box on TOP of the glove box. This is a one screen D180 -12. It was one of the first customer builds. The box has 3 antenna connections - two on the side (TNC female) with a DB-9 for the wires, and the UAT connector (sma female?) is on top in the middle of the box. I suspect this is to isolate the hi-power transmitter from the GPS and WiFi logic on the board.
I have yet to find any extra fused 12V outputs from the optional harness. The schematic says there should be two on pins 14 and 15 but I tried - they are inop. The schematic also calls for a "spare" switch that does not exist on this control panel. I plan to call/email Vans to see what they think about tapping power. The box must be independently fused.
Here is my wiring plan (some items still TBD):
ADS600EXP
DB-9
-----------
Pin 9: V+ (12v through 3A slow blow fuse or breaker)
Pin 5: Power GND
Pin 6: UAT Fail. Connect to D180 Contact input (p9 or p10 - one is for spar pin?)
Pin 7,8: GPSMAP 396 Data In (yellow) and Gnd (black). For Traffic.
Pin 1,2: GTX327 Pin 20,13. For Squawk.
Pin 3,4: GTX327 Pin 2 or 19 (from D180), 25 or 13 GND. For Alt-Enc.
I'm prepping a local RV-12 for an ADS600EXP we have ordered. We do not have the box yet, but we did ask for the install manual and to get the GPS antenna in advance. NavWorx has been very responsive to my many questions. So far there are only a few typos in the very complete install manual.
On the -12 we plan to mount the 1 lb 7"x5" box on TOP of the glove box. This is a one screen D180 -12. It was one of the first customer builds. The box has 3 antenna connections - two on the side (TNC female) with a DB-9 for the wires, and the UAT connector (sma female?) is on top in the middle of the box. I suspect this is to isolate the hi-power transmitter from the GPS and WiFi logic on the board.
I have yet to find any extra fused 12V outputs from the optional harness. The schematic says there should be two on pins 14 and 15 but I tried - they are inop. The schematic also calls for a "spare" switch that does not exist on this control panel. I plan to call/email Vans to see what they think about tapping power. The box must be independently fused.
Here is my wiring plan (some items still TBD):
ADS600EXP
DB-9
-----------
Pin 9: V+ (12v through 3A slow blow fuse or breaker)
Pin 5: Power GND
Pin 6: UAT Fail. Connect to D180 Contact input (p9 or p10 - one is for spar pin?)
Pin 7,8: GPSMAP 396 Data In (yellow) and Gnd (black). For Traffic.
Pin 1,2: GTX327 Pin 20,13. For Squawk.
Pin 3,4: GTX327 Pin 2 or 19 (from D180), 25 or 13 GND. For Alt-Enc.
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AllThumbs
Well Known Member
RV-12 Install Updates
After a few emails back and forth with Bill at NavWorx (thanks Bill) and some sussing out of the D180 RV-12 install, I've made some changes to the plan:
1) I discovered that the GPSx96 Serial in (yellow wire) is pinned into the Vans Control Board and it runs directly to the Transponder DB9 on Vans Control board (pin 5). This was probably to allow for traffic out of transponder to the GPS. I pinned that up and ran it past the transponder to the glovebox where I will mount the ADS600 to provide traffic from ADS600 to GPS 396.
2) Due to the limited access to switched power we determined we can use the GTX-327 switched power output (pin 14). It comes on when the transponder gets power.
3) The D180 contact pins are both taken (stall and spar pin) so I'm wiring a discrete LED to flash if UAT Fail asserts.
4) I grabbed the ground from the GTX327 as well so it turns out that the current wiring plan is mostly running that wire (#1 above) and adding a bundle out of the GTX327:
GTX (p14) -> +12v to ADS600
GTX (p13) -> GND to ADS600
GTX (p19) -> Altitude Encoder (ICARUS fmt) to ADS600. Requires splice.
GTX (p20) -> Squawk Code (REMOTE fmt) to ADS600.
Due to location limitations (978 Ant must be 5' from 1090 Ant and 2' from Comm) we have to run the UAT antenna all the way back behind the fuel tank.
After a few emails back and forth with Bill at NavWorx (thanks Bill) and some sussing out of the D180 RV-12 install, I've made some changes to the plan:
1) I discovered that the GPSx96 Serial in (yellow wire) is pinned into the Vans Control Board and it runs directly to the Transponder DB9 on Vans Control board (pin 5). This was probably to allow for traffic out of transponder to the GPS. I pinned that up and ran it past the transponder to the glovebox where I will mount the ADS600 to provide traffic from ADS600 to GPS 396.
2) Due to the limited access to switched power we determined we can use the GTX-327 switched power output (pin 14). It comes on when the transponder gets power.
3) The D180 contact pins are both taken (stall and spar pin) so I'm wiring a discrete LED to flash if UAT Fail asserts.
4) I grabbed the ground from the GTX327 as well so it turns out that the current wiring plan is mostly running that wire (#1 above) and adding a bundle out of the GTX327:
GTX (p14) -> +12v to ADS600
GTX (p13) -> GND to ADS600
GTX (p19) -> Altitude Encoder (ICARUS fmt) to ADS600. Requires splice.
GTX (p20) -> Squawk Code (REMOTE fmt) to ADS600.
Due to location limitations (978 Ant must be 5' from 1090 Ant and 2' from Comm) we have to run the UAT antenna all the way back behind the fuel tank.
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
When I installed my FreeFlight system I had to wire it to the GTX327 for an XPDR suppression signal. That turned out to be one of the worst goat ropes ever. I had to pull all my center stack components. I was a good Christian before I applied power and my prayers were answered --- now back to my sinful ways! 
MartySantic
Well Known Member
Neil,
Thanks for the update. Is the length of the coaxial cable to the UAT antenna going to be a concern if the unit is mounted in the mapbox area and the antenna in the rear? Maximum cable loss per the manual is 2 db. RG-400 coaxial cable has a loss of 0.147 db/ft at 1000 MHz, which would limit the length to about 12 feet (allowing a bit of loss for the coaxial cable connectors).
http://www.pasternack.com/flexible-...dium=cpc&utm_campaign=RF Cable&utm_term=rg400
Thanks for the update. Is the length of the coaxial cable to the UAT antenna going to be a concern if the unit is mounted in the mapbox area and the antenna in the rear? Maximum cable loss per the manual is 2 db. RG-400 coaxial cable has a loss of 0.147 db/ft at 1000 MHz, which would limit the length to about 12 feet (allowing a bit of loss for the coaxial cable connectors).
http://www.pasternack.com/flexible-...dium=cpc&utm_campaign=RF Cable&utm_term=rg400
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Power
Good tip on pulling power from pin 14 on the 327. I didn't know it was there, but Im wondering if it's too close the the 1.5 amp limit? Looks like it pulls 1.1 max.
Also, has anyone received one yet? They charged me for my order, but I was told it will be will into April before they ship.
Also, I notice they spec the antenna to use, and require a degree 90 SMA fitting on the UAT antenna to maintain warranty.
Tim
Good tip on pulling power from pin 14 on the 327. I didn't know it was there, but Im wondering if it's too close the the 1.5 amp limit? Looks like it pulls 1.1 max.
Also, has anyone received one yet? They charged me for my order, but I was told it will be will into April before they ship.
Also, I notice they spec the antenna to use, and require a degree 90 SMA fitting on the UAT antenna to maintain warranty.
Tim
Neil - - - -
I hope you will take several pictures of your installation, along with the final wiring requirements. It would be much appreciated. I think several of us have wanted to see one finished ( RV-12) and a gov. report that it is working properly.
Thanks for your efforts.
I hope you will take several pictures of your installation, along with the final wiring requirements. It would be much appreciated. I think several of us have wanted to see one finished ( RV-12) and a gov. report that it is working properly.
Thanks for your efforts.
AllThumbs
Well Known Member
Marty: good question. We planned to run down the tunnel (away from xponder) and after along the right side lightening holes right into the aft section. I think it's about 10' but I'll measure today.
Tim: Worst case would be when both boxes are drawing xmit power and that's still not much amperage. The wire will handle 10 amps+ to the 327 and I'm sure Garmin would not say 1.5 unless they meant it. We MAY have to increase the 7.5 comm-stack fuse but I'm going to use the existing one to (experimentally) see if it blows.
John: nothing worth snapping pics of yet. My biggest coup so far is finding the GPS's receive line is already attached at the control panel and carried through to pin-5 of the DB-9 that goes to the transponder. Since this is a really confusing sentence I'll take a picture and annotate it to help.
The 90 degree requirement is to avoid stress to the antenna jack according to Bill. Remember that only one fitting is SMA, the others are TNC. The doc is not yet consistent about this info.
We've had no word on exactly when we'll get our box. I'm betting April as well.
Tim: Worst case would be when both boxes are drawing xmit power and that's still not much amperage. The wire will handle 10 amps+ to the 327 and I'm sure Garmin would not say 1.5 unless they meant it. We MAY have to increase the 7.5 comm-stack fuse but I'm going to use the existing one to (experimentally) see if it blows.
John: nothing worth snapping pics of yet. My biggest coup so far is finding the GPS's receive line is already attached at the control panel and carried through to pin-5 of the DB-9 that goes to the transponder. Since this is a really confusing sentence I'll take a picture and annotate it to help.
The 90 degree requirement is to avoid stress to the antenna jack according to Bill. Remember that only one fitting is SMA, the others are TNC. The doc is not yet consistent about this info.
We've had no word on exactly when we'll get our box. I'm betting April as well.
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MartySantic
Well Known Member
Neil,
I sent you a PM. Send me your e-mail address and I will send the RV-12 electrical schematic as a .pdf file.
The schematic shows the yellow GPS wire is connected to Pin 5 of the GPS 9-Pin Dsub connector. Internally on the main control board there is a connection between Pin 5 of the GPS 9-Pin Dsub and Pin 5 of the Transponder 9-Pin Dsub connector. This pin is not connected. A wire is NOT shown going back to the transponder. Might be able to use as the connection between the GPS and ADS-B box.
I sent you a PM. Send me your e-mail address and I will send the RV-12 electrical schematic as a .pdf file.
The schematic shows the yellow GPS wire is connected to Pin 5 of the GPS 9-Pin Dsub connector. Internally on the main control board there is a connection between Pin 5 of the GPS 9-Pin Dsub and Pin 5 of the Transponder 9-Pin Dsub connector. This pin is not connected. A wire is NOT shown going back to the transponder. Might be able to use as the connection between the GPS and ADS-B box.
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It is possible to use the D-180 EMS Pin 9 for another purpose instead of spar pin warning. The D-180 spar pin warning is redundant because there is already a big red light on the instrument panel to warn about spar pins. And the engine will not start if a spar pin is not locked in place regardless of whether or not the spar pins are connected to the D-180 EMS contact input. On my RV-12, I connected that contact input to an airspeed switch and a flap switch in parallel to ground. If the airspeed is too high and the flaps are deployed, then the D-180 alarms. The alarm has warned me a few times when I either lowered the flaps while going too fast, or forgot to raise them after having to unexpectedly abort a landing and go around.
AllThumbs
Well Known Member
I suppose we could repurpose the spar warning. You just interrupt the input on the D180 and replace with the output from the ADS600EXP.
I suspect Van's comment on that would be that knowing your spars are not secured is way more important than knowing if your ADSB has failed.
I suspect Van's comment on that would be that knowing your spars are not secured is way more important than knowing if your ADSB has failed.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Depends on how the spar warning switch is wired. The Navworx uses a warning light that is wired to a hot source, ground is controlled by the box to light the indicator------at least the one I am working on at the moment is like that-------pin 14, "active low" for indicator.
The D-180 contact input monitors whether or not the input is connected to ground. The user can give the input a 4 character name such as, SPAR, FLAP, CNPY, ADSB, or etc. The user can also configure the alarm to sound when the input is either connected to or disconnected from ground. It will not hurt the D-180 if external voltage is applied to the contact input as long as that voltage does not exceed 15 volts. See the FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide pages 3-18 and 6-18.
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
FreeFlight just announced a $1995 ADS-B Out solution. The In option requires one of their WiFi modules (about $125 as I recall).
Kinda ticks me off after forking over $3400 for the FreeFlight XVR-978 and WiFi module at OSH, but I knew what I was getting into.
One caveat: after the update from iOS 7 to iOS 8 on my iPad I had frequent data stream dropouts using WingX 7, and some persisted for 30 minutes. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to when they occurred. Eventually I put my iPhone 5S Wing X 7(running iOS 7) next to my iPad (Running 8.1) and saw the data status flags drop on the iPad while the iPhone stayed rock solid.
Since the recent update to iOS 8.2 I have flown about 10 hours and seen the dropouts reduce dramatically with the longest persisting about 2 seconds. I just wanted to pass this on in case someone is considering options to NAVWORX.
Kinda ticks me off after forking over $3400 for the FreeFlight XVR-978 and WiFi module at OSH, but I knew what I was getting into.
One caveat: after the update from iOS 7 to iOS 8 on my iPad I had frequent data stream dropouts using WingX 7, and some persisted for 30 minutes. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to when they occurred. Eventually I put my iPhone 5S Wing X 7(running iOS 7) next to my iPad (Running 8.1) and saw the data status flags drop on the iPad while the iPhone stayed rock solid.
Since the recent update to iOS 8.2 I have flown about 10 hours and seen the dropouts reduce dramatically with the longest persisting about 2 seconds. I just wanted to pass this on in case someone is considering options to NAVWORX.
Don't be ticked off. The $2K is out only, as you said. If you want in and out their web site is recommending a version of the 978 with a list price of more than you paid.
AllThumbs
Well Known Member
After consulting with the "team" we will keep the SPAR contact on the D180. They pointed out the SPAR lamp on the panel button is very hard to see in daylight so an aural alarm from the D180 is a good thing. It would be... bad... if your wings fell off.
I'm going to use a red LED square momentary contact switch (eBay) for the UAT Fail. The momentary contact is so you can push-to-test the LED before flight. Not that anyone will do this.
I'm going to use a red LED square momentary contact switch (eBay) for the UAT Fail. The momentary contact is so you can push-to-test the LED before flight. Not that anyone will do this.
Another option to spar pin warning is to make sure the spar pins do not come out. Wouldn't it be better to not have the pins come out unintentionally than to be warned about it after the fact? Maybe someone can come up with a better pin retainer like a bolt or "C" clip or safety wire. Most of us only remove the wings once per year, so a fastener that requires tools is acceptable.
The warning light also gives false alarms. I remember reading about a passenger who put his weight on the fuselage side while shifting in his seat. That was enough to open the magnetic proximity switch and turn on the red panel light. Then the passenger noticed that big red light and became concerned.
A good invention would be a warning light to warn about forgotten external control locks.
The warning light also gives false alarms. I remember reading about a passenger who put his weight on the fuselage side while shifting in his seat. That was enough to open the magnetic proximity switch and turn on the red panel light. Then the passenger noticed that big red light and became concerned.
A good invention would be a warning light to warn about forgotten external control locks.
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
If you're that concened why not just safety wire the spring loaded pins to the brackets they engage?
Probably an apples to oranges comparison, but the ADS-B failure indication on my FreeFlight goes to a dedicated LED on the panel. Is that an option for you?
Probably an apples to oranges comparison, but the ADS-B failure indication on my FreeFlight goes to a dedicated LED on the panel. Is that an option for you?
Jetguy
Well Known Member
Visit to the Office of Navworx!
I was in the area Thursday and was able to stop in and talk to Bill Moffitt at NavWorx In Rowlett Tx. Bill was very knowledgeable about working with the FAA and all the hoops a company has to go through with the FAA to certify the Factory built unit. They still plan on shipping in April but sometimes when one of their parts suppliers delay there stuff it causes delays for their final product. I have the D-180 in my plane so for all you Skyview guys I would just wait until Dynon comes out with their stuff which I'm 100% sure they will have before 2020 as well as Garmin G3X guys. I'm looking for a simple install with good tech support and this unit looks like it will meet those goals. Here are a few things I learned.
After you install the unit you will be able to configure it using a Iphone App (later a android app) thru the WIFI from the unit as well as future Software updates. No DB 9 pin plug required. There is another price increase coming Monday, around 50 to 100 dollars. Why, because they can!
Also when you are all done with the install you can power it up and via the App it will do a final self test to verify that it is working correctly. The last step after that is to go fly and then send an email to the FAA with N-number to [email protected] and request a detailed report. Include this report in my Aircraft logbook with installation logbook entry.
My thoughts on installation.
1. Will install using the Dual Receiver.
2. Will use the cheaper internal mounted GPS antenna.
3. Will skip the external Control Panel and use the GTX327 to control the on-off function. Meaning when the transponder is on then the Navworx box is on.
4. Will skip the On-off Annunciation light being discussed. Just check via the app at annual.
5. Will use the AV-22 UAT antenna mounted under the tail boom 2 feet aft of the COM antenna and 5 feet aft of the transponder antenna etc.
6. May order Misc coax cable and wiring harnesses as needed.
7. Will try to use the extra slot on the fuse panel for the unit.
8. Will use a Mini Ipad with one of the web site recommended apps for traffic and weather.
Ok here are a few pics. The Unit on the bottom is the Certified version. The one on the top is the EXP version. No, the circuit board will not stick out, this is just a mock up for pics. 10 dollar bill is for scale. its about 1/2 inch thick. Next Pic is the WIFI antenna which will be screwed onto the side of the unit, paper clip is for scale. Disclaimer: the final product maybe slightly different when they start shipping.
I was in the area Thursday and was able to stop in and talk to Bill Moffitt at NavWorx In Rowlett Tx. Bill was very knowledgeable about working with the FAA and all the hoops a company has to go through with the FAA to certify the Factory built unit. They still plan on shipping in April but sometimes when one of their parts suppliers delay there stuff it causes delays for their final product. I have the D-180 in my plane so for all you Skyview guys I would just wait until Dynon comes out with their stuff which I'm 100% sure they will have before 2020 as well as Garmin G3X guys. I'm looking for a simple install with good tech support and this unit looks like it will meet those goals. Here are a few things I learned.
After you install the unit you will be able to configure it using a Iphone App (later a android app) thru the WIFI from the unit as well as future Software updates. No DB 9 pin plug required. There is another price increase coming Monday, around 50 to 100 dollars. Why, because they can!
Also when you are all done with the install you can power it up and via the App it will do a final self test to verify that it is working correctly. The last step after that is to go fly and then send an email to the FAA with N-number to [email protected] and request a detailed report. Include this report in my Aircraft logbook with installation logbook entry.
My thoughts on installation.
1. Will install using the Dual Receiver.
2. Will use the cheaper internal mounted GPS antenna.
3. Will skip the external Control Panel and use the GTX327 to control the on-off function. Meaning when the transponder is on then the Navworx box is on.
4. Will skip the On-off Annunciation light being discussed. Just check via the app at annual.
5. Will use the AV-22 UAT antenna mounted under the tail boom 2 feet aft of the COM antenna and 5 feet aft of the transponder antenna etc.
6. May order Misc coax cable and wiring harnesses as needed.
7. Will try to use the extra slot on the fuse panel for the unit.
8. Will use a Mini Ipad with one of the web site recommended apps for traffic and weather.
Ok here are a few pics. The Unit on the bottom is the Certified version. The one on the top is the EXP version. No, the circuit board will not stick out, this is just a mock up for pics. 10 dollar bill is for scale. its about 1/2 inch thick. Next Pic is the WIFI antenna which will be screwed onto the side of the unit, paper clip is for scale. Disclaimer: the final product maybe slightly different when they start shipping.
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In order to use the extra fuse that is located in the D-180 control board, it will be necessary to take the control board apart because there is no place to connect to the downstream side of the fuse. Inside of the control board, the circuit board has a blank space for mounting a spare switch (Otto part number K2ABHPCABA available from Van's). See plans page 45-08 Rev 2. Jumpers could be soldered to the control board to bypass the optional switch. Or a switch could be purchased and soldered to the control board. It will be necessary to cut a rectangular hole for the switch in the control board aluminum face without getting aluminum filings into the circuit board. After jumpers or a switch is installed, 12VDC will be available on optional pins 14 & 15.
NavWorx Visit 5/15/15
I ordered my UAT Coax Cable and AV-22 Antenna on 5/14/15. The cables are made to length when you order. On 5/15/15 I picked up my order at NavWorx's Rowlett location. I was also able to get the MCPB harness, circuit breaker, GPS Antenna and installation hardware. I ordered the Dual Receiver. Your delivery position is determined by the date you paid for the Receiver. NavWorx has a significant backlog of orders for the EXP unit. My EXP Receiver delivery date was estimated to be 6 to 8 weeks. The first 5 units should ship within a matter of days.
Bob Kibby (N712BK)
I ordered my UAT Coax Cable and AV-22 Antenna on 5/14/15. The cables are made to length when you order. On 5/15/15 I picked up my order at NavWorx's Rowlett location. I was also able to get the MCPB harness, circuit breaker, GPS Antenna and installation hardware. I ordered the Dual Receiver. Your delivery position is determined by the date you paid for the Receiver. NavWorx has a significant backlog of orders for the EXP unit. My EXP Receiver delivery date was estimated to be 6 to 8 weeks. The first 5 units should ship within a matter of days.
Bob Kibby (N712BK)
roadrunner20
Well Known Member
You may want to follow this post re shipping & orders...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=124223
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=124223
