What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Are RV's indoor-only planes?

precession

Well Known Member
I just put up the following comment at the tail-end of an existing thread about the Pro's and Con's of RV ownership (see http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=173029), but I hope the moderators won't mind if I start this as a new thread, because I'd really like to hear if there are people out there who agree or disagree with the idea that RV's are pretty much indoor-only planes - i.e., planes really made to be kept in hangars rather than outside. Here's my comment:

"IMO, the biggest "con" of RV ownership has not been mentioned yet, which is that if you get an RV you are most likely going to want to keep it in a hangar. This is a very significant expense, which cuts into all the other savings you achieve by acquiring an RV. There is a well-known poster on this forum who keeps his non-painted, polished aluminum RV outside, with a cover over the cabin area only I believe, apparently without a huge amount of obvious deterioration, so I suppose it can be done. But I think most owners of nicely painted and cared-for RVs keep them inside because they recognize keeping them outside will significantly degrade their aircraft's appearance and condition over time. In contrast, if you buy a production aircraft that, in many cases, has already been living outside for years, you are not going to suffer much incremental deterioration by continuing to leave it outside, and it costs a heck of a lot less than paying for a hangar. I'm happy with the RV I've owned for 20 years, but think prospective owners should be aware of and carefully consider this expense. I would be interested to hear the comments of people who have experience keeping them outside. Maybe there are some who disagree that RV's are generally made to live inside?"
 
I like to keep the rain, snow, ice, wind, and sun off of any airplane. I think it's worth it. Of course, I guess that depends on the cost of the hangar space is at a given airport. I lucked out with a cheap one ($100/mo). It doesn't keep the birds out though...still working on that.
 
Last edited:
I don't think a 172 or Cherokee has anything special making a better "outside" plane. All the ones on the ramp at my airport look terrible.

I can't seem to figure out why people keep choose to keep their expensive planes outside .. RV or Cherokee or 172 .. the sun and elements really beat down the aircraft and take away from the curb appeal, probably reducing the value.

I drive past two other airports on the way to mine, not only for the hangar but the field is much nicer and so are the people.
 
Last edited:
define 'outside'

Ok, you'll get a million NEW opinions here, but here's mine.
Had my RV outside for 8 + years. $50 a month tie-down. $500/month for a hangar...not po$$ible, none even available.

If I were to do it again, I'd just invest in some full covers for winter, minimal covers in summer ( canopy & tail perhaps).
It REALLY depends a lot on where you live, and how much time you want to spend cleaning it....and if you have a lot of critters that like to live in aircraft.
In winter, we get about 4 months of snow and a fair bit of freeze-thaw, which can be a pain, and unsafe....thus the full covers.
The rest of the year is pretty dry ( southern BC) but a bit of jet exhaust soot and windblown silt gets into the nooks and crannies.

Did it devalue the plane? sure, the paint faded a bit, worse if it's a brilliant red or blue that oxidized, unless you cutpolish and wax every month. The fiberglass parts are probably the worst at weathering/aging.
My new ride is half fiberglass, and I'm already seeing a lot of oxidation where it's not covered....
 
Interesting... My thoughts - it doesn?t matter how an aircraft is made or how old it is or if it already looks terrible - Mother Nature will (over time) convert it back to dirt. Keeping it outside will only accelerate the process. There many things one can do to slow the process - covers, washing, waxing, anti corrosion treatments, keeping it clean, move it to Montana, etc. Hangers are another way to slow the conversion back to dirt! A climate controlled hanger of course would be the best - the slowest rate of deterioration. We all have to make decisions as to what we can accept as a rate of deterioration versus the cost to hanger. Just remember to add the extra depreciation of a weathered aircraft when comparing outside tie down to the cost of a hanger.
 
Appearance is not the issue.

No GA airplane should be left outside in rain for an extended period of time. Moisture for aluminum or composite for that mater is the enemy number 1 that will destroy the airframe over time. Especially for aluminum moisture in areas not easy passivated by access to oxygen and not primed, like critical joints. Yes you can prime, but the smallest wear point or scratch will become a corrosion point So many people(including a lot of engineers) fail to understand the corrosion properties of aluminum. They just see a shiny metal that does not show rust.

I was looking at an unpainted plane just this last weekend, blue plastic had been on the cut away on the joint lines but left on for a long duration on the bulk of the areas. Those areas had surface corrosion. Think how bad this would be an airplane left sitting in the rain for years. Plus in in areas you can't see.

In general GA airplanes have a long longer lifespan than commercial airplanes, so even more important. Think about it your RV could be still flying 50 years from how.

In general no one wants to buy a GA airplane that has spent it's life sitting in the rain. I always feel so sorry for the airplanes that are sitting outside in Oregon. In Oregon the moss will get to!
 
In my mind, it's a matter of "pay me now, or pay me later". Insurance is higher outside, paint fades, bugs crawl into little places, birds build nests, they are susceptible to jet blast, lookie loos walking around the airport, etc. I've had two planes outside, three inside. Much prefer inside, plus it's a lot easier to store supplies, do work on your plane, etc
 
For the cost of a hangar, in our area

you can do a new paint job every two years! IF I had to keep my airplane outside (and the day may come), I would use appropriate cabin covers, plug the obvious holes, and keep it cleaned and waxed frequently ---- I have had to do the outside storage several times in the past and much prefer the hangar for security, maintenance, and a place to "hang".

Ron
 
The OP didn't reveal where he lives, but if hail is an issue, or very high winds, you probably will want to keep it indoors.

Can't imagine putting all that work into something and then letting it get hailed on. What a disaster.

Dave
 
Airplanes in general ARE indoor creatures.

In my mind, it's a matter of "pay me now, or pay me later". etc

Anyone keeping an aircraft on the ramp when hangars are available should carefully consider the real cost of that decision.

I'm paying $600 monthly at KJYO (Leesburg, VA) and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a long list of reasons why this cost is offset by having it inside.

Paying $100 on the ramp vs. $600 in a hanger does NOT mean you are saving $500 monthly.
 
For the hangar-tie down cost difference
you can do a new paint job every two years! IF I had to keep my airplane outside (and the day may come), I would use appropriate cabin covers, plug the obvious holes, and keep it cleaned and waxed frequently ---- I have had to do the outside storage several times in the past and much prefer the hangar for security, maintenance, and a place to "hang".

Ron

+1
In our area it?s every 4 years. For me the ?tie-breaker? is if you do your own maintenance. Working out on a ramp is brutal (and not allowed at some airports).
But another big factor: Many owners treat their airplane as if it were their child! They wouldn?t leave their kid alone outside, they treat their plane the same way.
 
In Georgia, we have tornadoes, hail, nasty thunderstorms once or twice a week, 95 degrees, high humidity, bugs, etc... a hanger doesn't guarantee protection against any of those, but my stomach would have holes burned it every time a thunderstorm rolled through the area if I wasn't in a hanger.
 
Find me one a single solitary example of an aircraft that is NOT an indoor airplane? No avionics like to be roasted in 140 deg solar heated cockpits.


Even Airforce one, is hangared.

You can keep any aircraft outside if you want to constantly care for sun, heat, rain and wind wear and tear. The question is how much time and energy and money do you want to put into looking after it?

Even indoors , you still need to keep the mice and birds out in some cases.

All aircraft are a labour of love. Neglect them and they will kill you.

If you fly more days in a week than it is tied down outside, you can probably look after and enjoy a safe RV with minimal extra hassle- like Vlad has done for years. The oil in his machine rarely cools down to ambient temps.
 
Last edited:
Find me one a single solitary example of an aircraft that is NOT an indoor airplane?


Even Airforce one, is hangared.
it?

The majority of airline aircraft rarely see the inside of a hangar. So they?ve figured out how to deal with these wx issues. Mostly regular, recurring maintenance. So again, it?s a question of what costs more: more maintenance, or an expensive hangar.
For AF1, there?s a security concern...
 
Out there and lovin it

I looked for but couldn't find a hangar during my build. A very nice RV owner let me use his hangar for final assembly but then I had to move it outside.

I made a cover for it that goes from before the oil dipstick access door to 2 feet behind the canopy. The cockpit stays dry. I poured water into the fuselage at the tail and drilled drain holes where it collected.

I expected the worst but have been pleasantly surprised. I'd love a hangar especially when some maintenance needs to be done but it ain't bad. BTW if you know of a hangar available at KVPC of KRYY please let me know.
 
Without a hangar, where am I going to plug in the refrigerator?
Gotta have toolboxes, work benches, storage shelves, yada yada....

I've been spoiled with a hangar with a garage door in the back. Drive right in behind the airplane.
Lotsa room for oil changes, brake jobs, other car maintenance where other airport bums can stop by, knowing there are ice cream bars in the freezer.

While I've never owned an airplane that wasn't hangared, for me it's more than just keeping the airplane out of the elements.
 
At the end of the day circumstances out of the owners control often dictate whether a plane is left outside or not. To me my RV is an investment, an expensive investment. I wouldn't leave a car of the same value outside in the elements.
Often insurance premiums are more if left outside. Security/theft, securing the plane to the ground continuously, damage by others, ability to work on your plane out of the elements, lots of things to consider other than the obvious, the WX!
 
Last edited:
There are many RV's outside, and they do fine. I think the biggest issue is if you have a slider The way the top slopes down before meeting-up with the windscreen cause water to want to run into that joint a seep into the cabin. I have tried many types of waterproofing spray on my Bruce's cover, but water still seems to work it's way in.
 
I can't imagine having my RV7 outside. I'm lucky to have a hangar, took about a year of waiting. I'm close to the ocean so it is especially important. I even cover my RV7 in the hangar.

There is more to it. I love hanging out at the there. I've got it equipped with all the creature comforts. My hangar neighbors always stop by for a coffee or a beer and some great conversation.

Pat

KHAF
RV7
 
Ramp queen

Here's a picture of my ramp queen during a long x-country. I do repaint a lot. My tailfeathers and front wheel pant are off now for inspection and repaint. Almost all off my plane's painted parts are removeable so I can take them home for recoating. I've been fortunate in Baton Rouge not to have had any hail at the airport in the 6 years it's been on the ramp. I'm able to drive my truck on to the ramp during condition inspections and major work which is a big help.

I'm 67 so my RV doesn't have to last me all that long. Also, I primered the interior before assembling because I knew I would be storing it outside. It's definitely not pristine, but I haven't had corrosion problems yet. When the weather cools I'll polish. John

731gjk.jpg
 
Last edited:
Years and years ago I left many of my aircraft outside but I never owned one much more than a couple of years plus i lived in the prairies so it wasn't a big deal but these days I have the RV and where I live close to the coast it's never going to be kept outside because it would get trashed.
No one wants to spend more money than they have so that's got to be taken into consideration when considering ownership. There are always other options.:)
 
Hahaha

"...No one wants to spend more money than they have..."

Sure they do! EVERYONE wants to spend more money than they have!:D
 
Try paying for a hangar AND monthly ramp fees to keep your plane in the sun 5 days a week and in a hangar for 2 days with your tools to do maint. Of course I would prefer to keep it hangared all the time but you do what you can do and have to do. The nomenclature of inside vs outside plane is irrelevant.
 
Last edited:
Best Investment

I have been flying now for 38 years and owned aircraft for 34 of those 38 years. The biggest mistake I made 34 years ago was not BUYING a hangar before I purchased an airplane. I did purchase a hangar when I began construction of my RV8 and I can safely say that it is the only investment that I have made in aviation that has appreciated in value. Even if you are between aircraft you can rent your hangar out to someone while you build/buy another one. The hangar will increase in value, your aircraft will not loose value as fast, your maintenance costs will be much lower and you will have more time to fly because you will not find your wing covers frozen on from freezing rain. And I had $14,000 dollars damage to my plane once from a moose while parked outside but that's another story. I you do buy a hangar get one with a high enough ceiling to install and Aerolift as you can rent that space out as well...or park your other plane on it...
 
This thread reminds me of a sign in my Dentists office that reads.

?Flossing is only required for the teeth you want to keep.?

I heard a story one time about a divorcing couple where the husband owned a beloved P-51 that was being restored to flyable condition but the hangar was owned by the wifes?s family in an area impossible to find hangar space at any cost. Both were obstinate and had bulldog attorneys but it took the airplane a few months out on the ramp before a settlement was reached. Guess who caved?

I don?t think an RV is any more outdoor tender than any prized aircraft but I couldn?t imagine leaving one out. At the very least a covered tie down aka shade hangar offered at many airports as a cheaper alternative to a full hangar.
 
Inside out....

I would be interested to hear the comments of people who have experience keeping them outside. Maybe there are some who disagree that RV's are generally made to live inside?"

P,
I too am a 25+ year RV builder/pilot and all that originally on the premise of budgetary spending. Or more appropriately Vans "most bang for buck"
To live outside much depends on the part of the country you live in. Being a native of the SE USA my RV4 paint prep included hand scrubbed etch and alodine with PPG concrete truck cab primer and paint as well as Zinc Chromate on all internal surfaces..( which by the way still looks new 25 years later) I planned for some outside parking but corrosion is a big player in my neck of the woods not to mention the 3 H"s. Hail, Hurricanes and High winds, the third a by product of the 1st 2.
That said, parking outside in AK is normal, a cabin and engine cover is plenty. Do that in TX and your RV will look like a golf ball in less than a year.

Park outside? Sure, but make sure you know the local weather and are willing to pay higher insurance and need it..

I did solve the hangar cost problem however. After some careful measurements and access to a nearby grass strip via roads...



What's in your garage? :)
V/R
Smokey
 
Last edited:
Hangar market

For me, my hangar rent is the #1 expense for owning an RV, by a large margin. My expenses are otherwise very low because I work on it myself - but it's really hard to work on it yourself without a hangar. Possible, but much more difficult and less comfortable.

On a related note, I think the lack of a healthy hangar market in many (most?) areas of the country is a largely ignored drag on the health of General Aviation. I wish EAA or AOPA would attack that with the same enthusiasm they have displayed going after the monopoly FBO price gouging around the country.
 
Back
Top