VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #21  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:20 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,417
Default

You only need ADS-B over 10000' and inside a Mode-C ring and in B and C airspace. If you can live with that, don't install it.

There are a LOT of planes flying without ADS-B or transponders and will continue to do so after 1/1/2020.

My next plane won't have an electrical system, thus no transponder or ADS-B.

I suspect those who insist it is a safety issue, have never flown a Cub, Champ, Tcraft, etc. without even a radio. Keep your eyes outside and you will be fine.

As for the iPad thing, total waste of money. You are better off with a good handheld GPS or a SktView with its free charts than FF with its expensive subscriptions running on an unreliable iPad, than can be left behind accidentally.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 10-08-2019 at 09:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:33 AM
zmatt zmatt is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
As for the iPad thing, total waste of money. You are better off with a good handheld GPS or a SktView with its free charts than FF with its expensive subscriptions running on an unreliable iPad, than can be left behind accidentally.
There are versions that do not require a subscription. When you have ADS-B in you have access to so much information, lighting strikes, WX radar, metar/tafs, winds aloft etc... Ipad does not equal foreflight, take a look at the other options.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:32 PM
RV8JD's Avatar
RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 441
Default

Just to summarize, in one place, where ADS-B OUT will be required. From AOPA and the FAA:
"The FAA has mandated ADS-B Out capabilities in the continental United States for flights after January 1, 2020, generally in airspace where a Mode C transponder is required today. There is one significant exception; ADS-B also will be required in certain airspace above the Gulf of Mexico. Here are the specifics:
  • Class A, B, and C airspace;
  • Class E airspace at or above 10,000 feet msl, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 feet agl;
  • Within 30 nautical miles of a Class B primary airport (the Mode C veil);
  • Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B or Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet;
  • Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico, at and above 3,000 feet msl, within 12 nm of the U.S. coast."


Ref's:
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft...b-out-required

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipads...arch/airspace/
__________________
Carl N.
Arlington, WA (KAWO)
RV-8, 640 Tach Hours
(Pic 1),(Pic 2)
- Out with the Old, In with the New
(Pic)
RV-8, 1938 Tach Hours (Pic 1),(Pic 2) - Sold

Glasflügel Standard Libelle 201B - Sold
Rolladen-Schneider LS1-f - No longer owned
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:35 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 4,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
QAYou only need ADS-B over 10000' and inside a Mode-C ring. If you can live with that, don't install it.
.
Pretty sure that Charlie airspace has requirements as well. There is no Mode C ring around the C airspace, though it may be required (I forget).

Larry
__________________
N64LR
RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
RV-10 in progress
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:40 PM
snopercod's Avatar
snopercod snopercod is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 1,912
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
As for the iPad thing, total waste of money.
NOW you tell me (big grin). I've been flying for over five years with my iPad/Foreflight/Stratus combination, including two trips to the West Coast from NC. The iPad has never once let me down and I feel like the features of Foreflight are well worth the $199 per year. I opted for the Synthetic Vision and it has saved my bacon a couple of times. If you're above the mountains with clouds below, it's comforting to "see" what's down there. If you're having difficulty locating an airport in poor visual conditions, SV will show you where it is. But you're right. For the first time ever, I left my iPad at home last week and the results weren't pretty. I told myself "No problem, I know the way to Spartanburg; All I have to do is follow the Interstate." So after I launched off, ATC vectored me way the (place of eternal punishment) and gone up north for traffic. When he finally released me to "own navigation", I didn't see anything familiar. I had my Sectional chart and a heading, but I was over a rural area with no prominent landmarks. The Interstate was nowhere to be seen. I felt like Amelia Earhart at that point. After about five minutes of floundering around looking for a reference point, I tore up my Man Card and asked Greer Approach for a vector. I was about 45 degrees off course. Sheesh. Obviously, my Pilotage and Ded Reckoning skills have gotten very rusty. With ATC's help, I finally found the airport and went in and made a crappy landing. I guess I was a little flustered by then. The trip back was uneventful because I picked up the Interstate right away and just followed it back to Asheville. I felt naked the entire way without my ADS-B traffic display, not to mention TFRs, NOTAMS, and weather. I freely admit that I've become a child of the Magenta line.

P.S. I installed a Garmin GDL-82 about a year ago. I'm glad I did. I want to be seen (as well as legal).
__________________
(2019 dues paid)

Last edited by snopercod : 10-07-2019 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:07 AM
snopercod's Avatar
snopercod snopercod is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 1,912
Default

Here's why you should have ADS-B:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DkZ...ature=youtu.be
__________________
(2019 dues paid)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:24 AM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snopercod View Post
I've spent several hours reading about ADS-B on the FAA website, the AIM, and other sites, but I'm still somewhat confused. So, my question is this, if I am equipped with only a mode C transponder, who can't see me on their ADS-B In display? Obviously, in the scenario on that video, or at a similar uncontrolled airport, you likely would not be in range of ATC radar. So, if I am understanding correctly, you would not be showing up on anyone's ADS-B in display unless you had ADS-B out. Is that right? And if I in fact AM in range of ATC radar, then do I always show up on ADS-B In displays in other aircraft?
__________________
Jim

Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:48 AM
Snowflake's Avatar
Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
So, my question is this, if I am equipped with only a mode C transponder, who can't see me on their ADS-B In display? Obviously, in the scenario on that video, or at a similar uncontrolled airport, you likely would not be in range of ATC radar. So, if I am understanding correctly, you would not be showing up on anyone's ADS-B in display unless you had ADS-B out. Is that right? And if I in fact AM in range of ATC radar, then do I always show up on ADS-B In displays in other aircraft?
You've got it. With Mode-C only, you only show up on ADS-B-in if ATC radar is picking you up to rebroadcast. If you're away from a radar source, nobody will see your location (they may get notified that there's a target out there, but not it's location).

Although thinking about it, if that's true and whenever you're inside Class B or C airspace (where there's radar) then ATC will see you, and their ADS-B out will broadcast you. So what does having ADS-B out really add in that situation? I guess broadcasting a unique code for your aircraft.
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)

Last edited by Snowflake : 10-08-2019 at 08:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:56 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,417
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snopercod View Post
I've been flying with ADS-B iin and out for over five years. It continues to surprise me how many airplanes don't show up on it, planes I know have transponders and ADS-B out.

My point is, there is no requirement to have it in most of the country and there will always be aircraft without.

You MUST keep your eyes outside the cockpit!

(At Triple Tree this year I watched a plane not fly the arrival procedure and cut off a lot of airplanes. When I spoke to him later, he stated that since no airplanes were showing up on his ADS-B, he assumed there was no one out there and he didn't need to fly the procedure. Nevermind that Cubs and such will never have ADS-B.

Turns out his ADS-B had failed.

There will never be an excuse for not looking out the windscreen in VFR conditions.)
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:47 AM
RVDan RVDan is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
So what does having ADS-B out really add in that situation? I guess broadcasting a unique code for your aircraft.
For 1, ADSB position accuracy is much better than Terminal or Center surveillance radar and it is updated more frequently. Important for maneuvering traffic.
The other part is aircraft ID, which unless you have had Mode S all along, they didn’t have. I have ADSB out and rarely get asked for an ident anymore. The traffic is automatically tagged with our info. This is helpful to folks with ADSB In receivers also as you show up with ID and when we hear tower sequencing aircraft we can identify the location of the aircraft they are talking to.

Mode C Altitude is also confirmed agains GPS altitude and if a large disparity exist is flagged.

When below radar coverage, ADSB out can provide aircraft to aircraft traffic coverage if you have ADSB In dual band. For that matter, ADSB In equipped aircraft can see other ADSB out aircraft directly, if the in receiver is dual band. In the vicinity of a local airport, no radar coverage, but ADSB Out and IN equipped aircraft can see each other directly.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:33 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.