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  #31  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:47 AM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
Pretty sure that Charlie airspace has requirements as well. There is no Mode C ring around the C airspace, though it may be required (I forget).

Larry
If you look at the FAA chart that RV8JD posted (post #23) you will see ADS-B is required inside and above class "C" airspace. It's not required below class "C" airspace but is required everywhere within the mode C veil of class "B" airspace.

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Last edited by GalinHdz : 10-08-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:42 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
? And if I in fact AM in range of ATC radar, then do I always show up on ADS-B In displays in other aircraft?
No that’s incorrect. You need to be within radar coverage, AND other (adsb-in) aircraft need to be within range of a ground station, for them to see you. Out here in the west there are substantial areas where low altitude aircraft are not within range of a ground station. At LVK I cannot receive any ground stations when I’m very low - and we’re within the sfo mode C veil.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:12 PM
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snopercod snopercod is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
I've spent several hours reading about ADS-B on the FAA website, the AIM, and other sites, but I'm still somewhat confused.
You are not alone, my friend. The best situation (as RVDan posted) would be if every aircraft had ADS-B in and out. In that case, each aircraft could see each other directly (aircraft-to-aircraft) with no radar or ground station involvement. Since not everybody is going to equip, the FAA designed a kluge called TIS-B [Traffic Information System - Broadcast]. With that system, the ADS-B ground stations will send you traffic if certain rigorous conditions are met. First of all, both your aircraft and the target aircraft have to be within solid radar coverage. Secondly, your aircraft has to be in contact with at least one ADS-B ground station. Thirdly, you have to be an ADS-B "client". I don't understand all I know about that; There seems to be some kind of time requirement involved, but I don't know what it is. If all the requirements are met and you are a client, the ground station(s) will sent you TIS-B targets for those aircraft which are not ADS-B equipped. In my area, our only ground station is partially blocked by mountains so it's rare that I ever become a client. The only way I know of to find out is after the flight, you can request a PAPR and it will tell you for what percentage of your flight you were a client. For local flights, it's rare to see my client percentage over 20%, which means I'm not going to see non-equipped aircraft on my iPad. Garmin Pilot has a way to tell you in real time if you're a client, but Foreflight doesn't.
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  #34  
Old 10-08-2019, 03:13 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
I've spent several hours reading about ADS-B on the FAA website, the AIM, and other sites, but I'm still somewhat confused. So, my question is this, if I am equipped with only a mode C transponder, who can't see me on their ADS-B In display?
Here is a link to a Sporty's ADS-B video. It is a little dated, but nicely explains how ADS-B OUT and IN works. The video really begins at 11:12. The ADS-B IN section that explains who is seen and when is between 20:23 and 25:50.

"Understanding ADS-B: A Pilot's Guide":
https://youtu.be/1LvZy59FhQw
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  #35  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:35 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Originally Posted by RVDan View Post
I have ADSB out and rarely get asked for an ident anymore. The traffic is automatically tagged with our info. This is helpful to folks with ADSB In receivers also as you show up with ID and when we hear tower sequencing aircraft we can identify the location of the aircraft they are talking to.
Along those same lines, here is an article published today:

"FAA completes final ADS-B milestone"
https://generalaviationnews.com/2019...s-b-milestone/
The FAA completed its final implementation milestone with Automatic Dependent Surveillance–Broadcast (ADS-B) in September 2019, when the last two of the 155 airports to receive ADS-B, Akron-Canton Airport and Mansfield Lahm Regional Airport, both in Ohio, became operational.

“This brings the operational rollout of ADS-B baseline services to a successful conclusion, on schedule and within budget, well in advance of Jan. 1, 2020, the date by which aircraft flying in certain, controlled airspace must be equipped with the technology,” FAA officials said in a prepared release.

ADS-B is now operational at air traffic control facilities across the country. These include airports, Terminal Radar Approach Control Facilities, which handle busy airspace around airports, and en route facilities, which handle high altitude traffic.

All are using ADS-B as the preferred source of surveillance, which provides improved situation awareness to both pilots and controllers, among many other benefits and improvements,” FAA officials said.

ADS-B also enables more accurate tracking of airplanes and airport vehicles on runways and taxiways, increasing safety and efficiency, FAA officials added.

“The new system significantly improves surveillance capability in areas with geographic challenges, like mountains or over water,” officials continued.

Airplanes that are also equipped with ADS-B In, which is not mandated, give pilots information through cockpit displays about location in relation to other aircraft, bad weather and terrain, and temporary flight restrictions, officials added.
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Arlington, WA (KAWO)
RV-8, 640 Tach Hours
(Pic 1),(Pic 2)
- Out with the Old, In with the New
(Pic)
RV-8, 1938 Tach Hours (Pic 1),(Pic 2) - Sold

Glasflügel Standard Libelle 201B - Sold
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2019, 07:46 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
No that’s incorrect. You need to be within radar coverage, AND other (adsb-in) aircraft need to be within range of a ground station, for them to see you. Out here in the west there are substantial areas where low altitude aircraft are not within range of a ground station. At LVK I cannot receive any ground stations when I’m very low - and we’re within the sfo mode C veil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snopercod View Post
You are not alone, my friend. The best situation (as RVDan posted) would be if every aircraft had ADS-B in and out. In that case, each aircraft could see each other directly (aircraft-to-aircraft) with no radar or ground station involvement. Since not everybody is going to equip, the FAA designed a kluge called TIS-B [Traffic Information System - Broadcast]. With that system, the ADS-B ground stations will send you traffic if certain rigorous conditions are met. First of all, both your aircraft and the target aircraft have to be within solid radar coverage. Secondly, your aircraft has to be in contact with at least one ADS-B ground station. Thirdly, you have to be an ADS-B "client". I don't understand all I know about that; There seems to be some kind of time requirement involved, but I don't know what it is. If all the requirements are met and you are a client, the ground station(s) will sent you TIS-B targets for those aircraft which are not ADS-B equipped. In my area, our only ground station is partially blocked by mountains so it's rare that I ever become a client. The only way I know of to find out is after the flight, you can request a PAPR and it will tell you for what percentage of your flight you were a client. For local flights, it's rare to see my client percentage over 20%, which means I'm not going to see non-equipped aircraft on my iPad. Garmin Pilot has a way to tell you in real time if you're a client, but Foreflight doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
Here is a link to a Sporty's ADS-B video. It is a little dated, but nicely explains how ADS-B OUT and IN works. The video really begins at 11:12. The ADS-B IN section that explains who is seen and when is between 20:23 and 25:50.

"Understanding ADS-B: A Pilot's Guide":
https://youtu.be/1LvZy59FhQw
Thank you Bob and John. Thanks for the video, Carl....that's exactly the info I was looking for!
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  #37  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:02 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
No that’s incorrect. You need to be within radar coverage, AND other (adsb-in) aircraft need to be within range of a ground station, for them to see you. Out here in the west there are substantial areas where low altitude aircraft are not within range of a ground station. At LVK I cannot receive any ground stations when I’m very low - and we’re within the sfo mode C veil.
Bob, I was out your way about 4 years ago....delivered a light sport Tecnam to a buyer at Frazier Lake Airpark. It was one of my longest and most memorable cross country trips in a small airplane!
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2019, 03:46 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloWhiskey1 View Post
This might be a good option. It provides ADSB in and out and WAAS GPS and Bluetooth to your personal device, phone, iPad, etc.. You can use apps on your personal devices for all sorts of navigation features that will display info from this ADSB/GPS unit. It pretty much replaces the need for a portable aviation gps and you’ll see traffic and weather.

$1500 and it works with mode C transponders. You would need to add the cost of the apps.

I did a quick google search and didn’t see where flight following won’t be offered to non-ADSB aircraft.

http://grtavionics.com/home/ads-b-so...ionix-echouat/
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbert View Post
ADSB Out will be required for all flights above 10,000 msl (a couple AGL exceptions in mountainous terrain), and for C, D and B to include the shelves below C and B I believe. I also think you’ll need ADSB out if you plan on using ATC services...IFR flights and VFR flight following. I don’t have the references for what I’ve said but I’m 95% certain on it. Check out the FAA website and search ADSB airspace to be certain. Definitely your choice on the matter.

I also recommend the Echo. I bought mine from GRT. Super simple install, works with any transponder and gives you ADSB In and Out. You’ll see more traffic and have Weather information. Huge safety factor. Seriously save the $1500 and get it. It will also raise the value of your plane if and when you sell it.
I decided to go with the Echo unit as well. GRT is out of stock on their GPS, so it won't deliver until after the first of the year, but I'm installing several other GRT avionics items (a used dual EFIS and a new EIS system), so the timing shouldn't be too bad.
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