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Avionics Choices

Jetmart

Well Known Member
New to the amateur build process and the available experimental avionic packages. Wondering how one goes about objectively evaluating the difference choices? Currently considering Garmin, Dynon Skyview, and and Advance Flight Systems. Likely will be IFR.

Also at what stage of the build process with a QuickBuild kit does one have to decide on what specific avionic equipment and whether to install an auto pilot or not.

I know that many cables, antennas and wiring must be run before things are closed up.

I'm open to personal opinions on the pros and cons of each manufacturer.
 
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Comparisons

Go to one of the aviation expos and play with each system. It will be a personal choice. Asking which is better here isn?t going to give you a valid answer as each person?s ?best? is completely based on their personal desires...
 
Also don't neglect MGL and GRT. The big boys aren't the only ones on the field.

What I did was to download the user manual for each one and see what I thought would be best for me. Then I did the same for the installation manuals. I gave a lot of weight to a friend's experience and comments here on VAF, and made my choice from all that. Kind of surprising how quickly I was able to narrow down the field, but that decision was for me and my own desires, and has zero carry-over to other people or other types of operation. It's highly individual.

Dave
 
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Also don't neglect MGL and GRT. The big boys aren't the only ones on the field.

What I did was to download the user manual for each one and see what I thought would be best for me. Then I did the same for the installation manuals. I gave a lot of weight to a friend's experience and comments here on VAF, and made my choice from all that. Kind of surprising how quickly I was able to narrow down the field, but that decision was for me and my own desires, and has zero carry-over to other people or other types of operation. It's highly individual.

Dave

Thanks, I do plan to go to Sun N Fun and Oshkosh however I thought I would start getting some early info. I also don't mind taking into account personal information and preference. That is more important than who can market best. It is hard to figure out everything a system has to offer at a busy display booth.
 
and...

It is hard to figure out what each system has to offer, period!

I went with a Garmin G3X system. The install manual is over 1100 pages.

The user manual was in the crate with the panel. It's a spiral bound book about an inch and a half thick! I'm pretty sure that guys that are flying it still don't know everything about it...
 
I recommend that you wait buy avionics until you need to. When you need to make a decision so that you can proceed with the build, then plan a buy at Sun N Fun or AirVenture. Tech is changing and you can typically get more if you wait. It is a real kicker to buy a great piece of gear now, only to have something better surface by the time you are ready to install. The avionics manufacturers do a good job of keeping new equipment under wraps until they are ready to ship, so that they keep selling the old stuff as long as possible.

In the meanwhile, educate yourself on capabilities that you need, or want.
 
I can't help you because I'm in the same spot. I find the array of modules and add-ons and doodads to be absolutely dizying. I don't know what I need or what I want or how something like the g3 interfaces with a gns530 vs gtn650 vs what I'm used to in the g1000 or how a pair of g5s drives the ap servos and connects to a Garmin mfd and interfaces with a gps nav com. But what I do know is I'm worrying about decisions that are years away. For now I just want to understand what I need and how much it's going to cost. But I definitely feel your pain.

I keep looking for answers and when I don't see similar questions asked I wonder if it's because it's just a dumb question
 
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Keep asking the questions...

I keep looking for answers and when I don't see similar questions asked I wonder if it's because it's just a dumb question

Philip, there's a pile of us behind you, just starting to build so appreciate the research and questions!
 
I went through the same process with my QB-7. The Quick Build fuselage is pretty much ready to start installing components as delivered, allowing better access for your installation. After construction of the forward fuselage framework it is ready for avionics and BEFORE riveting the of the top forward skin. I also spent some time evaluating the different systems and options at Sun&Fun. I decided on the AFS Quick Panel (about 8 weeks lead time). The AFS system is pretty much a plug & play, it has worked superb for me and customer service is excellent. It all comes down to personal choice and of course $. Any of the available "quick panel" systems will save a tremendous amount of time and get you flying sooner than later.
 
I'm worrying about decisions that are years away

Actually that was the 2nd half of my initial question. With the quickbuild kit when do you have to make these decisions. Not only with the panel but auto pilot, electric flaps, trims, etc? Cables and wiring harnesses have to be run fairly early.
 
Philip, there's a pile of us behind you, just starting to build so appreciate the research and questions!

what I really wonder, is why couldn't a guy do something like this:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=173476

2 garmin g5's, the garmin autopilot head, the MFD screen, and add a GPS navcom like the gtn650? Wouldn't they all work together for a basic IFR panel? Maybe it wouldn't be any cheaper than the g3x by the time you were done. I'm coming from a g1000 SR22 and I've really been spoiled by the garmin autopilot and reduced workload IFR so I'm trying to figure out how to keep the functionality I like without spending $40k. Anyway, I'll stop dragging you off topic, don't even get me started on the thinking/reading I've been doing on paint and priming. Really the two tasks of building I don't want to do but can't afford to outsource is paint and panel while being the two things I want perfect.
 
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Dynon and Garmin are matched almost exactly on feature and price for everything except the IFR GPS, which Dynon doesn't make. In my opinion, Garmin's ads are more attractive, but when I saw both units in person at Oshkosh, I felt they were also very similar and both outstanding.

For me, the main difference is that Garmin would barely give me the time of day at their Oshkosh booth, and the guy who spoke with me briefly was more of a software person, while Rob Hickman at Dynon/AFS spent an hour walking me through their systems and options.

I think both systems are so good because there is healthy competition. I've been a long-time Garmin user, but opted for Dynon to encourage the competition. I'm convinced that Dynon will be here for a long time, and not so certain about the smaller vendors who are probably marginally profitable.

I was also leaning toward a Garmin IFR GPS, but was convinced to get Avidyne instead. I've liked the Garmin 530 in the Bonanza I used to fly, but haven't come to love the 650 interface yet. I think Avidyne is measurably better in that it has knobs that are easier to use in turbulence, and smart autocomplete so its faster to dial in fixes.

I did choose a Garmin G5 as my emergency backup instrument because it is independent of everything that could go wrong with the Dynon hardware or software.

I'm building an RV-7A and it has been painful drilling lots of holes to run the cabling at the end of the project. The main spar penetrations that Vans recommends are nowhere near enough for an IFR panel. I wish I'd provided for more before putting on fuselage skins, but didn't have a good enough understanding of the systems yet to make those decisions.

David
 
Dynon and Garmin are matched almost exactly on feature and price for everything except the IFR GPS, which Dynon doesn't make. In my opinion, Garmin's ads are more attractive, but when I saw both units in person at Oshkosh, I felt they were also very similar and both outstanding.

For me, the main difference is that Garmin would barely give me the time of day at their Oshkosh booth, and the guy who spoke with me briefly was more of a software person, while Rob Hickman at Dynon/AFS spent an hour walking me through their systems and options.

I think both systems are so good because there is healthy competition. I've been a long-time Garmin user, but opted for Dynon to encourage the competition. I'm convinced that Dynon will be here for a long time, and not so certain about the smaller vendors who are probably marginally profitable.

I was also leaning toward a Garmin IFR GPS, but was convinced to get Avidyne instead. I've liked the Garmin 530 in the Bonanza I used to fly, but haven't come to love the 650 interface yet. I think Avidyne is measurably better in that it has knobs that are easier to use in turbulence, and smart autocomplete so its faster to dial in fixes.

I did choose a Garmin G5 as my emergency backup instrument because it is independent of everything that could go wrong with the Dynon hardware or software.

I'm building an RV-7A and it has been painful drilling lots of holes to run the cabling at the end of the project. The main spar penetrations that Vans recommends are nowhere near enough for an IFR panel. I wish I'd provided for more before putting on fuselage skins, but didn't have a good enough understanding of the systems yet to make those decisions.

David

Thanks David,

This type of information is what I find very helpful.
If you have time at some point it would be great to see pics of your panel.
 
Don't forget to take a close look at the hardware architecture of the competing units

I have a friend who selected the EFIS for his Other than RV based on the hardware design, because he felt they all met the basic requirements as far as the info displayed and how it is displayed.

He is defense contractor test pilot and his selection and the reason for his selection was eye-opening.
 
The only way to really evaluate the equipment is to actually go fly an IFR flight with the equipment you are considering and see which one you prefer from a real world operational standpoint. Looking at the screens at Osh and whether or not the salesman did a good job selling you his system isn't the best way to decide.
I'm available to demo the G3X by appt.

IMG_0683-XL.jpg
 
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I'm building an RV-7A and it has been painful drilling lots of holes to run the cabling at the end of the project. The main spar penetrations that Vans recommends are nowhere near enough for an IFR panel. I wish I'd provided for more before putting on fuselage skins, but didn't have a good enough understanding of the systems yet to make those decisions.

David

I'm close to done with wiring (running them anyways) and have found that if a person puts a couple of devices that need an RG-400 in the aft fuselage it can be done. I put my transponder and ADSB boxes and antennas in the aft fuselage. But I totally agree that it would have been nice to have more options.
 
Dynon and Garmin are matched almost exactly on feature and price for everything except the IFR GPS, which Dynon doesn't make. In my opinion, Garmin's ads are more attractive, but when I saw both units in person at Oshkosh, I felt they were also very similar and both outstanding.

For me, the main difference is that Garmin would barely give me the time of day at their Oshkosh booth, and the guy who spoke with me briefly was more of a software person, while Rob Hickman at Dynon/AFS spent an hour walking me through their systems and options.

I think both systems are so good because there is healthy competition. I've been a long-time Garmin user, but opted for Dynon to encourage the competition. I'm convinced that Dynon will be here for a long time, and not so certain about the smaller vendors who are probably marginally profitable.

I was also leaning toward a Garmin IFR GPS, but was convinced to get Avidyne instead. I've liked the Garmin 530 in the Bonanza I used to fly, but haven't come to love the 650 interface yet. I think Avidyne is measurably better in that it has knobs that are easier to use in turbulence, and smart autocomplete so its faster to dial in fixes.

I did choose a Garmin G5 as my emergency backup instrument because it is independent of everything that could go wrong with the Dynon hardware or software.

I'm building an RV-7A and it has been painful drilling lots of holes to run the cabling at the end of the project. The main spar penetrations that Vans recommends are nowhere near enough for an IFR panel. I wish I'd provided for more before putting on fuselage skins, but didn't have a good enough understanding of the systems yet to make those decisions.

David

I am with David on the 650, I tried out both at Oshkosh and agree the Avidyne is easier to use. I am a long time Garmin fan and have used a 530 in a Bonanza as well, and put a 430 in my RV. I am currently looking at upgrading my 430 non W unit to either a 650 or Avidyne IFD 440. I am not keen on shelling out $4500 to turn a 15 yo 430 into a 430W.

The Avidyne is a slide in replacement, just upgrade the antenna and antenna cable, I like the fact I don?t have to tear up the entire panel unlike the 650. While I will have to learn the Avidyne unit, I have the simulator on my iPad, I won?t have to learn the icons on the 650, not a fan of icons. The Avidyne also has an app so you can build/change your flight plan on the app and sync it to the panel unit via Bluetooth, slick.

My 2 cents.
 
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We had an avidyne 550 in a Mooney and it was a great, easy to use gps. I do prefer that navigator to the Garmin but everything else I think I prefer Garmin, especially the autopilot.
 
Check with your local A&P/IA about their experience with dealing with service or questions concerning installs or repairs on some of best advertised or marketed products. I work on a volunteer basis with a great IA restoring classics. Have won a Lindy. You might be surprised at how difficult some manufactures are to deal with.

Bob Grigsby
3B. Installing engine
J3C-65. Fly all year long
I love Kalifornia
Dues paid. Thank you DR
 
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