What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Just Purchased a P-MAG

U

UH1CW2

Well Known Member
Have a few questions from the guys using P-MAGS. I was on the fence regarding this purchase . Kept going back to the Lightspeed ignition system as I have one already. I finally decided to get the P-MAG on the self generating system it offers above 900 RPM. Although I have questions:\
  • Is it as smooth as the Lightspeed Plasma system?
  • Are the new units dependable?
  • HAs anyone remotely mounted the coil pack?
  • Do I need a small Scat tube supplying fresh air to keep it cool?
  • Any vibration issues related to the wire connector?

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Phil Camarda
Long EZ N55GR
http://www.longezpilot.com

http://www.ruger1022receiver.com
 
No you don't want to move the coil pack, the whole idea is a complete modular self powered magneto replacement. The ignition leads follow the same route as those being replaced from a traditional magneto. The attractive feature of this is not having to add any special timing pick ups, flying magnets or control boxes. Those other ignition systems may have stronger spark energy, greater programming choices or other benefits, but this unit has it's own special features.
The 8.5mm leads are bigger in diameter than the original magneto leads, so I had to drill out the plastic bushings where the leads pass thru the rear baffles.
I see where you might be going with this. The top plugs could have the coil pack mounted on top of the engine with very short ignition leads to each plug, similar to the fuel injection flow divider and fuel lines. Pretty cool notion.
Yes the instructions direct to provide a blast cooling tube to the body of the Pmag, and it states very clearly where the air is to be directed.
I have one comment about the instructions:
I replaced a Bendix mag, which had mounting ears. The P-mag does not, and no comment was made about this that I could identify.
I ended up making a pair of hold down clamps. It turns out that Slick Magneto holding clamps are what you want.
You have a choice of two advance programs, controllled by a jumper wire. I started with the "Less Advanced" program, and I'm happy with that.
 
Scott,
Is the jumper intact for high or low compression? I cut mine for 7:1 compression and it ran much smoother. Now at 9.5:1 I replaced it but haven't run yet. Good idea?
 
Tell Me about Higher Compression

I am running 8.7-1 I am looking for the best setup from the guys that have already been through this. Do I need to change a timing curve for a non standard compression ratio? What size direct air scat hose are you guys running to the Ignition module (.5, .75, 1.0) ? I had a feeling this was not going to be a plug and play.

Phil
 
I have 9:1 compresson. Go with the less advanced curve. Can't remember if you get that with or without the jumper. I used a 3/4" scat but can't argue with 1". Pmags are as close to plug and play as you will get. Timing couldn't get much simpler.
 
The less advanced curve is accomplished with the jumper installed which is the best way to start. I have 3/4" scat tubing with a short piece of safety wire to hold the tube in exact place as my blast tube which works great for me.

It really is "plug-n-play" as compared with anything else. As others have said before, you will LOVE how easy it is to time your mags.

:cool:
 
Last edited:
Rik;
I started with the jumper installed, and have flown locally at altitudes less than 8000'. The big Pmag advance debate on this forum left me with the impression that Pmags have the most aggressive advance curve, particularly at low manifold pressure.
My 7:1 O-290 runs better with the Pmag than the mag it replaced, especially better at low RPM with improved idle. That's noticeable when using a light wood prop. At the top end, I picked up about 20 RPM @ full throttle at a typical 4,000' local flight altitude. I'm running one mag, one Pmag and a Marvel MA-4 carb.
I run 87 Octane Mogas, so I'm being cautious.
If I use this plane for cross country work in the future, where I would be buying 100LL while away from home, I would consider a switch in the jumper. That would require dragging another wire thru the firewall to allow in flight tests.
 
Wise choice...

UH1CW2 said:
Have a few questions from the guys using P-MAGS. I was on the fence regarding this purchase . Kept going back to the Lightspeed ignition system as I have one already. I finally decided to get the P-MAG on the self generating system it offers above 900 RPM. Although I have questions:\
  • Is it as smooth as the Lightspeed Plasma system?
  • Are the new units dependable?
  • HAs anyone remotely mounted the coil pack?
  • Do I need a small Scat tube supplying fresh air to keep it cool?
  • Any vibration issues related to the wire connector?

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Phil Camarda
Long EZ N55GR
http://www.longezpilot.com

http://www.ruger1022receiver.com
Click to expand...

Phil,
First, thanks for your service. Having installed three Electroair systems over the past 20 years I purchased a P-Mag for my RVX purely on the recommendation of my good friend Doug Reeves. From opening the box to installation to landing at 9,000' elevation (KTEX), the P-Mag is a home run. It shares duties with an Electroair system installed at construction. Comparing it with a LS Plasma is easy, no comparison.

Noticeable improvements over the Bendix Mag it replaced:
Better starts, easy to prop start with a dead battery.
Easy to time in the field with few tools.
Light and simple to wire and install.
Smooth idle
Lessons learned:
My EFIS (MGL) I needed to set the pulse receive function to 2 vice 1 per rev counter (RPM.)
Advancement: is equal to the nearly 20 year old Electroair it shares duties with.
Spark Plugs: Eight Autolite 386 (no adapters needed) cost, $12 bucks at NAPA.
Performance:
At 11,500 feet at 2550 RPM/19"MP on my 0-360J I show a 31 degree advance on the P-Mag, 33 on the older EI. High altitude performance and smoothness at WOT are noticeable. Max altitude easily achieved now, 16,500'
Service post sale: Excellent, Brad is Vet friendly and will offer you a discount. He upgraded my older P-mag for parts cost. Compared to LSE, well, there is none.

My biggest reason for the P-Mag was redundancy, it replaces a mag, can operate without an electrical system and improves on it across the board. Win win...

V/R
Smokey
 
Last edited:
Questions answered

Thanks guys, I am much more at ease with my purchase of the P Mag. I just fabricated and installed a dedicated 1 inch sceet tube from my air inlet so I can point it at the back of the P-Mag for cooling. I have no complaints regarding the lightspeed ignition system it has worked very well. My Slick mag was up for retirement and I did not want to put any more money into 1950's technology. I plan on installing the P-Mag on the lower cylinders I also plan on using the less aggressive timing curve. I'm a rotor head flyer by trade so anything above 6500 feet AGL is high enough for me. I just ordered 8 BR9ES plugs but I think I will opt for the Autolite 386 tomorrow morning.

Thanks again

Phil Camarda
 
Pmag manual indicates the cooling air should be directed at the neck of the Pmag rather than the back of the unit
 
Cooling ofthe P-Mag

Pointing the cool air at the aluminum housing neck makes good sense. Cooling the aluminum body will transfer the cooler temps to the circuit board. Plus I am willing to bet the board is heat sink-ed to the aluminum P-mag housing?
 
Spark Plug Question

I was going to purchase 8 Autolite 386 Plugs today but wanted to ask a question first. I use BR9ES with the Plasma 2 ignition system. I would like to get away from the thread adapters. Can I use the Autolite 386 plugs for both P-Mag and the Plasma 2? Is anyone using these plugs for both type ignition systems?
 
UH1CW2 said:
I was going to purchase 8 Autolite 386 Plugs today but wanted to ask a question first. I use BR9ES with the Plasma 2 ignition system. I would like to get away from the thread adapters. Can I use the Autolite 386 plugs for both P-Mag and the Plasma 2? Is anyone using these plugs for both type ignition systems?
Click to expand...

If you understand heat ranges and how they effect the motor, and the 386 ends up being the proper heat range, then there should be no problem. An improper gap can stress the coils also.

Do your homework and then inspect the product till you are comfortable with the results.
 
I'm nobody, but I seem to recall something about LSE coils being sensitive to current overload damage, and the resistance of the spark plug is a factor.
Autolite 386 is a resistor plug, but I don't know what the value is or how it compares to the LSE preferred plug. As always, read the instructions, sometimes a second read reveals more info.
I'm using 386 plugs with the Pmag, aircraft plugs with the mag. So far, so good.
In fact, I just had 2 Champion aircraft plugs fail the resistor test, so I replaced all 4 with Tempest.
 
Testing, testing 1,2,3...

UH1CW2 said:
I was going to purchase 8 Autolite 386 Plugs today but wanted to ask a question first. I use BR9ES with the Plasma 2 ignition system. I would like to get away from the thread adapters. Can I use the Autolite 386 plugs for both P-Mag and the Plasma 2? Is anyone using these plugs for both type ignition systems?
Click to expand...

Phil,
The LSE system will work fine with the A386 if gapped properly as mentioned above. I tested a set on an 0-200 Vari-EZ with an LSE system for a friend with no issues noted or thread adapters needed.
For best info though, Email or call Klaus at LSE for a lengthy and spirited explanation...:)
[email protected]

V/R
Smokey
Here is a Spark Plug cross reference chart FYI...
http://www.jsesc.com/mfg_docs/ste/spark_plug_interchange.pdf
Spark Plug Cross reference Chart

PS: I started flying my first electronic ignition after extensive research between the 2 available systems at that time, LSE and Jeff Rose. After speaking with both designers (Klaus and Jeff) I chose the Jeff Rose (now Electroair) system that still works after 4000+ hours in 3 different airplanes. My HR2 and my RVX also share this system, the last shared with a P-Mag. I found by experimentation and Jeff's recommendations for Spark Plugs over the years that the Autolite 386 works very well. Both the EI and P-Mag can utilize a wide range of available 14MM plugs. My favorite has always been the Autolite 386 with the Denso L-14U a close second. I am currently testing 4 Bosch M10ACO plugs on my Electroair system for 100 hours.
 
Last edited:
Plug Usage

Smokyray,
I did contact Klaus and he had a fit when I said I wanted to use the Autolite 386. He claimed only Denso plugs for his units! However, I have been running the NGK's for over 10 years trying 5 different plugs over hundreds of hours in my 0290 and 0320 engines BR9ES, BR9EVX, BR8ES, BR8EV and BR8EVX) all worked great with no issues a nice tan color and fast starting in cold or hot weather as I was in Michigan flying year round. I understand reach, thermal transfer ranges and correct threads for application I just wanted to check that an Autolite 386 had been used and will work with Plasm 2 systems. I don't mind being a test pilot but its nice to learn from someone else's work. Lightspeed coils put out more than enough energy to run a resister plug and shouldn't have any issues jumping a .028 gap. Thanks for the replay and data.

Kind of excited as my P-Mag will be here today and I can not wait to start the installation. No more adapters. Once finished I can put the wings on the plane and finish fitting the new cowls (Long EZ Pusher)

Respectfully


Phil Camarda
www.ruger1022receiver.com
www.longezpilot.com
 
I have had a Jeff Rose Electroair system on my RV6A working with a standard Slick Magneto for the last 14 years and 1050 hours.
About a year ago having had a problem with a Champion plug I decided to try using an auto plug with my Electronic ignition. In the Jeff Rose documents he recommends in the case of using auto plugs either the Autolite 386 or the Denso L-14U plug.
Here in Old Europe it was difficult to obtain the Autolite plug so I went with the Denso L-14U one. What I found was there was considerable electric radio noise with my recently installed Trig 8.3 Khz radio. I checked into the specs. for the plug and found the Denso L-14U is a plug without an internal resistor.
I ordered the Autolite 386 plug from the USA as it has an internal resistor and found that this type of plug reduced considerably the radio noise picked up from the Electronic ignition.
I looked at the Bosch plug that Smoky is trying and that plug also does not have an internal resistance. I am no expert on this but thought I would pass on my recent experience. I believe there are two versions of the Autolite 386 plug one with the screw on terminal and one with a solid terminal. If anyone has the part number for the solid terminal one I would appreciate if if they could post the information.

Barry RV6A F-PRVM
 
Installed P-Mag

Installed P-Mag the other day, put the jumper in but decided after running the ignition to pull the jumper wire out. I did install the 1 inch sceet blast tube as instructed by the P-Mag installation guide. Notice that for some reason the Plasma ignition ran a bit smoother than the P-Mag at RPMs below 1500. It was hard to tell above 1500. I have not flown the aircraft at this time. Still need to fit the upper and lower cowlings with some cutting and fiberglass work, It will be at least 3 weeks in this god awful Mississippi heat before its flyable if I work on it.

However, I am just considering waiting until September before I start working on this thing again. the epoxy tends to gel up fast and the pot life time is very short. In addition, the heat is around 100 degrees all the time so your sweeting constantly and it is just a very uncomfortable scenario working with fiberglass and epoxy in this humidity and heat. If you use a Dremel tool and grind the fiberglass the dust sticks to your skin like flower. Its because of all the perspiration tying to stay cool. Ill see how motivated I get this summer.

Phil Camarda
www.longezpilot.com
 
blast tube cooling

hi there,
I am considering to install 2 P-Mags on my Lycoming IO360 M1B and have a question regarding the " Blast Tube Cooling ". Can anyone post here some pictures ( or send to me by email ) here showing the installation of these blast tubes ? Would like to get some ideas about how to best make / place these blast tubes.

Another question I have regarding the studs which are now holding the slick magneto with the impulse coupling in place. According to the installation manual the studs for this magneto have to be replaced by shorter ones. Does anyone have a specification for shorter studs which would fulfill the requirement ?

Thanks in advance.

Josef

RV-8A / OE-AJL
 
Studs

Just went through the same process
Brad at Pmag has the studs. I was able to double nut the old ones to get them out and the use the same process to get the new ones in.
 
Welcome to the P-mag family!

I used two adel clamps on each blast tube to keep it pointed in the correct location on the P-mags.

Here is a picture of the top of my engine that shows one of the blast tubes.

Make sure to read the installation instructions. Installing a jumper between pins 2 & 3 forces the P-mag to run the "A" curve which starts its timing at 26 degrees before TDC. That works great, if you have a parallel valve engine. If you have an angle valve engine, you will want to download the EICAD program from Emag's website and enter a negative offset to reduce the timing to 20 degrees. (Do the same reduction to the max advance setting while you are in there.) It is easy to do but you will need a serial port, which means you need to find (buy) a USB to serial port adapter.
 
A really clever way to get the blast tube to aim right at the neck of the Pmag is to wrap the neck with a piece of safety wire, twist it a couple of times to join the ends, then run the wire up the center of the blast tube and secure it at the place where the tube comes out the back of the baffle. The blast tube has the safety wire running up the center, and stays pointed exactly right!

Can't remember who showed me this trick....

paul
 
Mag SR-8A

Hi Josef,

I am one of those guys that spent a hours getting the longer studs out and the replacement studs from Brad in. I could not get the old studs out with the double nut trick suggested in numerous posts. My local auto Mechanic was able to lend me this really neat little socket from Mag tools. It is part number SR-8A. It has some eccentric cams that lock down on the stud as you turn and makes removal a breeze. Other posts have mentioned similar tools with varying degrees of success. It also is used for insertion but note the following caviat. The threads on both sides of the stud look identical but one side is actually an interference fit and is the side that goes into the block. CAREFULLY hand tread this side into the block as far as you can before using the socket. The hole is treaded all the way through the wall of the block so dry fit the P-mag with the clamp and nut from time to time as you insert the stud until you have about three threads still showing above the nut. Alternately, Lycoming has a spec that tells you how much of the stud should be exposed prior to putting on the P-Mag.
Oddly, the stud I removed did not have the interference fit. Please take this as the experience of a happy customer (Electrical Engineer) on a journey of discovery and I hope it helps the next guy in line. As always, YMMV.

Cheers, Funguy
 
thank you guys !

Will follow your recommendations and am sure there will more questions arise throughout the whole process of decision making and finally installing the P-MAGs. Biggest headache will be how to remove the long studs, will try the double nut trick...

Had also some interesting chats with RV guys from the German RV forum about the P-MAG. So far they are all quite happy with the P-MAGS, they are flying auto fuel with 98 octane in their IO360s and it seems to work great. With the Avgas prices going through the roof ( ~ 12 USD/gallon ) here in Europe auto fuel is becoming an interesting alternative but without electronic ignition the engine does not run smoothly as it does with Avgas. And here the P-Mags come into play...

best regards,

Josef

RV8-A / IO 360 M1B
 
Last edited:
P-mags and MAP connections

Can I get some instruction/experience/source on the parts required to install my P-Mag manifold pressure lines?
I have dual P-mags on an IO-360 with SkyView EFIS. The Van's MAP install kit has 1/8" tubing for their steam gauge, but the Dynon MAP sensor needs a 1/4" ID tube. I can't find ANY mention in the P-Mag installations about the size of the tubing required, but it looks like 3/16" i.d.
Would also appreciate a source of an AN blue fitting to transition from the Van's-supplied braided,metal hose to plastic tubing, which has a restrictor built-in.
What kind of tubing? Nylon, TyGon, PVC, plastic straw ?
Lastly, I've read about using foam in a home-made coupling as a snubber, so I guess I need THOSE fittings, too.
Man, I'm shaking my head at all the adaptors/transitions/fittings required to what initially seemed like an easy installation: "?install tubing on nipple A, and engine?"

Thanks
 
AAflyer said:
Can I get some instruction/experience/source on the parts required to install my P-Mag manifold pressure lines?
I have dual P-mags on an IO-360 with SkyView EFIS. The Van's MAP install kit has 1/8" tubing for their steam gauge, but the Dynon MAP sensor needs a 1/4" ID tube. I can't find ANY mention in the P-Mag installations about the size of the tubing required, but it looks like 3/16" i.d.
Would also appreciate a source of an AN blue fitting to transition from the Van's-supplied braided,metal hose to plastic tubing, which has a restrictor built-in.
What kind of tubing? Nylon, TyGon, PVC, plastic straw ?
Lastly, I've read about using foam in a home-made coupling as a snubber, so I guess I need THOSE fittings, too.
Man, I'm shaking my head at all the adaptors/transitions/fittings required to what initially seemed like an easy installation: "?install tubing on nipple A, and engine?"

Thanks
Click to expand...
I used a AN807 ADAPTER HOSE TO UNIVERSAL aluminum fitting on my firewall. Then ran the MAP line from #3 cylinder to the firewall. Once inside the firewall, I transitioned to the MAP sensor but put a Tee fitting in there and ran the "drip irrigation hose" from my local big box hardware store back out the firewall and to the P-mags.

As for the "snubber", are you talking about restrictor to smooth the MAP readings? If so, I drilled the smallest hole I could through an AN470, length doesn't matter, and put it in the fitting at the AN807, on the engine side. It hasn't moved and did a great job of smoothing out the pressure pulses.
 
problem with ignition switch

hi there,
fired it up my P-Mags today and now I have this question:

I have the ignition switch from Van's Aircraft installed ( OFF - R - L - BOTH - START ), used that for the Slick magnetos. Now when I fired up the P-Mags strangely enough I can switch to right or left P-Mag, but when I turn the key to "both" the engine goes dead. Anything I overlooked in the installation manual ? Obviously I do have to change the wiring of the ignition switch ? Any advise ? Thanks a lot in advance !

best regards,

Josef
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top