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I hate avionics! Lol

Turbo69bird

Well Known Member
So I?d like to upgrade to ADSB I?m amd out and also do an auto pilot and eventually Efis. This is the most annoying thing I?ve dealt with, the options are ever changing and every time I THINK I?ve made a decision there?s some thread about how what a I was going to do is no longer the best way to go.

IE: GRT support thread.
Or UAvionics echo missing targets thread

Anyone else get as frustrated with this stuff as I do.

Maybe it?s bcause I?m so new to it or maybe there?s really no right answer but man it?s keeping me from jumping in on certain things and just staying with what I?ve got currently seems to be the best (safest) option.

I see guys who got into other brand GPS instead of a 430 and 530 and had serious regrets trying really hard not to be that guy, with today?s choices.
 
Anyone else get as frustrated with this stuff as I do.


Short answer - no.

Perhaps some tools to help you along the decision tree:
- Do not piecemeal. Decide on the end state and them make sure every component supports that end state. If you want all glass IFR and fully integrated ADS-B in and out, fine. You don't need to buy all that up front, but it helps if you buy the elements of an avionics system that you know will all work together (I do SkyView).
- If not IFR, then skip the 430W, the GTN-650 or the Avidyne offering.
- If IFR, decide if you want to buy one of these expensive boxes now or later. If later, either plan on where it goes or plan on cutting a new piece of aluminum for the panel. At $26 a very cheap option - and by then you will have other stuff to change (your perfect plan may not be perfect after you fly with it). The RV-10 panel was changes after 18 months - no major component change, just layout.

Side note. I've flown with the GTN-650 for seven years in the RV-10. I had problem with the unit as it came from Garmin and it was a struggle to get them to fix it. For the new plane I figured I go a different path so I looked at Avidyne. While I liked the Avidyne over the GTN-650 for functionality, I decided to stay with the GTN-650. The decision was made after talking with avionics shops on their experience with Avidyne.

Carl
 
I would suggest doing the upgrades in the reverse order. EFIS first, then AP or ADSB, whichever is more important to you. If funds do not support this route, you'll end up piecing things together, which is fine, but possibly spending more in the long run.

And don't forget, you don't have to go with all new equipment to get there.
 
Just from a user perspective, I have used both Avidyne and Garmin touch screen navigators. I have also used the Skyview products. No clear advantage to any of them, it all depends on personal preference. I would try to get some stick time with whatever brand you like before you finally decide. I personally prefer the autopilot panel interface for the Garmin products to the Skyview A/P panel. Can't speak to the GRT products.
 
Do not piecemeal. Decide on the end state and them make sure every component supports that end state. If you want all glass IFR and fully integrated ADS-B in and out, fine. You don't need to buy all that up front, but it helps if you buy the elements of an avionics system that you know will all work together (I do SkyView).

IMHO this is extremely good advice.

:cool:
 
My advice is don't be in a rush to be an early adopter. Let others work out the hardware/software bugs, and wait for a more mature, improved product.
 
For what it's worth:
* ADS-B out can be done largely independent of everything else, the one $ticking point being an approved GP$ $ource;
* If you're content with using a tablet, ADS-B in is cheap;
* As has been pointed out, there's big bucks in a WAAS/approach GPS system;
* Autopilot / EFIS -- that could be more of a challenge. If you're eventually going IFR, you'll want the autopilot to play nice with the EFIS. And if you're going IFR, you'll really want an autopilot as RVs can want to play games with the bumps rather than ignoring them, on course, on altitude like a Cessna 210. The flip side is that although it's great to use the autopilot IFR, you still need to maintain proficiency hand flying;
* One of the bigger challenges of IFR / autopilot is knowing what it's doing now, and what it's going to do at the next waypoint. Along with this is flight plan entry and editing;
* Been thinking about this some from an IFR perspective: glass means you don't have gyros to worry about, but glass primary flight display is expensive if that's all you're using it for. On the other hand, electric gyros are probable not worth repairing if they die, but rather being replaced by a G5 or something;
* Glass can be great for displaying engine parameters, if you have all the sensors, but nearly all engine displays I've seen on experimental glass cockpits have **terrible** human factors. People either adapt or fail to pick up information. Those that have programmable alarms compensate well for poor human factors, except for power displays;
* Moving maps, etc, are really hazard displays: weather, terrain, traffic, airspace being the ones that come to mind. There's lots of benefit to displaying the hazards and the flight plan on the same screen, especially with autopilot coupled to it.

Another aggravation is that current avionics are like computer systems, and become obsolescent relatively quickly. On the other hand, the functionalities are starting to plateau, and full boat functionalities today are likely to still be viable a decade from now. For example, on my RV-9A, the only avionics upgrades I'd like are the newer autopilot controller (knobs on the controller plus selectable course) and a GDL52 (an extra serial output over the GDL39). But those represent only a trivial increase in functionality, although they would be nice. I expect that the RV-9A avionics will provide full functionality for the next ten years, which may exceed my flying years;

The bottom line is, of course, that if God had intended man to fly, He would have given him a great deal more money.
 
Ok so I haven?t read everything yet, but I?d add to my original post (navworks) and that I currently have an IFR panel with 300xl All works but the autopilot which is an intermittent wing leveler century 1.

Now works is a relative term because my DG precessess perestroika bad and my vac pump isn?t in the green until pretty high up in the RPM range. Lol. So I figured I?d like an auto pilot and was going to go with a tru track Gemini originally but a friend has all GRT and the GRT graph seems to show a superior product. Problem is it doesn?t fit in a standard hole like where my T/C that runs my auto pilot currently sits.
Another friend is doing garmin G5 stuff in his panel right now and thinking back to those who did Apollo GPS vs a 430 pr 530 I?m like man maybe I should go G5 because the pricing isn?t bad and it fits a standard hole.


On the ADSB front stark had a great deal on the stratus transponder , but uavionics had a great deal on the echo and GRT gps source which I?d need if I went with an HXR in the future anyway so it?s like getting the GPS free later. Lol

It?s enough to make a man crazy 😂 trying to decide. I realize you at some point just have to hold your nose and jump in, but I almost did that with navworks and man I?m glad I didn?t.
Was just about to do the same with uavionics echo and boom that day comes the missing targets thread. Whhhheeeww. Glad I waited 😳. Question is how many more times will I be glad I waited? In the mean time at least I?m learning how to fly steam gauges, spot traffic solely by eye , and fly free hand in all conditions, really well. 😀👍
 
On the ADSB front stark had a great deal on the stratus transponder , but uavionics had a great deal on the echo and GRT gps source which I?d need if I went with an HXR in the future anyway so it?s like getting the GPS free later. Lol
Not sure what you meant by "...getting the GPS free later." The GRT gps is a position source for ADSB; it has no IFR database, and lacks any sort of TSO for IFR use. If you meant VFR use, then there are lots of very low cost gps' that will work. (I have a GRT HX and a G420W gps for IFR; but for emergencies, I can feed the gps from my SkyRadar D2 ADSB-in box into the GRT, with the flip of a switch).
I presume you have some sort of nav (VOR) radio, since the G300 is not legal for IFR use without one. If you intend to equip for IFR, your biggest dollar choice is whether or not to stick with the G300 (and non precision approaches) and your VOR (and hopefully ILS) receiver; or go to a full fledged WAAS GPS box ($$$).
 
Yes I?d use the g300for any IFR for now. Not currently IFR rated and I?d use the GRT GPS for VFR for now feeding the Efis, is what I meant. Later when I had the cash I?d upgrade tye G300 to the gtn650.
 
I'll also admit to not having read all the posts here, so caveats if I duplicate something.
I spent prob 4yrs looking and watching before I pulled the trigger. In the end, I realized that at this point, all the EFIS' are converging fast to one set of standard capabilities (APs, maps, synthetic, HITS etc) IOW, they all do the same things now, just implemented slightly differently, so no matter what you choose, you'll never find yourself wishing it could do something your hangar mate's does.

With that said, just go play with the boxes and see which appeals aesthetically to you the best - buttons, knobs, glare, touch, readability, configurability etc. And then get on with the learning curve of your chosen box.

You really cant go wrong with anyone of them anymore.
 
The best advise is to paint the picture of what you ultimately want and then build towards that. If you give me a call sometime I can talk about the benefits and drawbacks of the different options, and here are many many options as you have said. Some things to consider in the decision process:

1. Buy based on what is shipping now, never on promised features or ?shipping soon? products. Until you can get it, you can?t get it.
2. Buy from a single source if possible so they can confirm to you that everything will play nicely together. There are benefits and drawbacks to a ?piece meal? panel.
3. Buy based on the single source knowing the products well so they can priovide the first level of support, then based not only on the quality of support, but the accessibility of support. For example, there is one mentioned vendor who has great support if you can actually get a chance to talk to the guy who knows what he is talking about, but it is very hard to get that guy on the phone.
4. Plan to get as much of the final wiring as possible to start with, so you don?t have to tear into the harnesses every time you add a component.
5. Plan to cut the panel for the end product and make coverplates for unused holes in the beginning.
6. If you can afford to do it all now, that is the cheapest and best way to go.
 
Jeff, there is also another route. Fly the heck out of your rv this summer. Then Sell the 6 for $50K+ or so. Then look for a nice ifr ready to go rv. Just some food for thought.
What is the final cost of your dream panel going to cost anyway?
 
In the end, I realized that at this point, all the EFIS' are converging fast to one set of standard capabilities (APs, maps, synthetic, HITS etc) IOW, they all do the same things now, just implemented slightly differently, so no matter what you choose, you'll never find yourself wishing it could do something your hangar mate's does.

You really cant go wrong with anyone of them anymore.

I have a different opinion.
First, for VFR, it doesn?t matter. But for IFR:
The built in autopilots are not all the same. For external autopilots (Trio, TruTrak), some boxes are better than others at interfacing with them.
The failure modes are different. (What happens if the pitot is hit by a bug? Do the boxes attempt to auto-detect failures, or leave that to the pilot? And which is better?) Is it best to have one brand of boxes, all tied together; or different brands, as isolated as possible?
Different companies answer these questions differently. You need to educate yourself so that you aren?t surprised if something does go wrong.
 
This thread and it?s resulting posts /PMs is a,perfect example of what I mean how could so many people (in the know) come to so many different conclusions.

Seriously though it s more complex issue than most realize I think.
I?ve had PMs from those who say nothing but garmin don?t even think about it, and those who say anything but garmin, stay with those who support experimentals.

To turbo eddies, just sell it, idea.

Wait isn?t turbo the guy who kept his (ONE) plane the longest through all kinds of changes ?

For a self professed Newbie, this is enough to make you crazy or just not change anything at least. 😳
 
The bundle discount on the GTN 625 navigator when bought with a G3X sold me on the Garmin system for IFR. It sells for $8100 normally and with the bundle is discounted to $5700.

Truest words of the whole post: ?The bottom line is, of course, that if God had intended man to fly, He would have given him a great deal more money.?
 
The bundle discount on the GTN 625 navigator when bought with a G3X sold me on the Garmin system for IFR. It sells for $8100 normally and with the bundle is discounted to $5700.

Truest words of the whole post: ?The bottom line is, of course, that if God had intended man to fly, He would have given him a great deal more money.?

Where did you get this deal? I didn't see that anywhere. The difference in the 625 and 650 is simply the com? Haven't looking into the 625 at all.
 
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