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LSE vs EFII dual ignition

A

Aviator22S

I'm New Here
I am currently in the process of trying to determine the best option for ignition systems on my RV-10 project (IO-540) and am planning on installing dual electronic ignition. I have in the past worked on many aircraft with dual Plasma II and III ignitions and have been generally very happy with them. However I have encountered a couple of instances in which one unit failed, and have also found that the magnetic ring can be somewhat troublesome when it comes to getting the perfect clocking. I have been investigating the EFII system and, so far have found only positive reviews. The problem is that there seems to be very few people who have actually put any large number of hours on their aircraft since installing the system to be able to give much information on its performance and reliability. If you have any experience working or flying with the EFII system your feedback would be appreciated, especially if there is anyone out there who can offer any kind of comparison between LSE and EFII.
 
At the fundamental level, EFII ignition is an SDS system with Subaru coils, and there a great many hours on SDS systems in all kinds of motorsports.
 
An RV10 example

Over 90 hours on dual EFII ignition system on our RV10. No complaints, easy to install and maintain.
 
Welcome to VAF!

Benjamin, welcome to VAF.

Here is my 2 cents worth------light speed has been around for a long time, and has a good track record. Its occasional fault is known, and reasonably easy to fix. I believe they are a CDI based system.

EFII is one of the newer setups out there, less of a track record, but newer technology ------- same as on most modern cars. I have not heard of much in the problem/failure arena. The owner of EFII is an active user/poster here at VAF.

Both require a solid electrical system to make sparks -------

There is also the Electroair system you might want to look at, just to see what is available.

And then there may be a new kid on the block soon--------or not???? Emag will hopefully someday get their 6 cyl unit into production. Big attraction for them is self generating like a mag------at least after the initial engine start.
 
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Dual EFII for 100+ hours

Great system and customer service
No complaints
Would never go back to mags
 
I went with dual EFII and have been very pleased. They use the inductive system as I understand it and I feel that's its much better than CDI. I spent a lot of time researching the various systems and came to that conclusion. The parts are VERY well made, the ECU is very robust, easy to install even to retro fit and customer service is superb. Very difficult to screw up the installation. I made a trip out to SoCal and talked to Robert at EFII. I came away pretty impressed by the operation.
so far all I've seen of the Emags for 6 cylinder engines is vaporware. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one for quite a while.

If I had to do it over again I would have installed the ignition and the fuel injection systems at first install. It wasn't really available at that time so I replaced my mags later and sold them off and recouped most of the cost of the EFII ignition.
It runs very smooth and starts really easy especially when hot. So far I'm still running the AFS fuel system but will eventually replace it with EFII's injector system. Couldn't be happier!!
 
Thanks a bunch for the feedback! I like what I'm hearing. Does anyone use EFII with the AFS control module? My engine comes with mags already on it so my thought was that I would do the phase 1 test flying with the mags and then convert it over to the EFII. I am using the AFS avionics and control module and am wondering about the difficulty of integrating the EFII after it has been set up for mags.
 
Aviator22S said:
Thanks a bunch for the feedback! I like what I'm hearing. Does anyone use EFII with the AFS control module? My engine comes with mags already on it so my thought was that I would do the phase 1 test flying with the mags and then convert it over to the EFII. I am using the AFS avionics and control module and am wondering about the difficulty of integrating the EFII after it has been set up for mags.
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The Mags or Electronic Ignition don't wire to the Advanced Control Module so it should not be a factor. The Advanced Control Module gets its power after the aircraft Master Relay. Each Electronic ignition should have a separate power path (wire and fuse/CB) to the aircraft battery(s).

The AF-5600 can read the RPM from either a Mag or Electronic Ignition.

I would have the following questions if I were doing it:

1. Does removing the Mags from a new Lycoming IO-540 from Vans and installing Electronic ignition do anything to the warranty?

2. Has the Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F8068D for the IO-540 been tested and approved with dual electronic Ignition on the IO-540? Will it still be under warranty with dual electronic ignition?

http://hartzellprop.com/pilots/kit-builders/rv-10-lycoming-io-540/

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10 (1000+ Hours)
1-Mag 1-Lightspeed Plasma II+
 
Hello, all. I am a new member, considering (early stages) building an RV-10. Currently flying a Piper Warrior, and eventually I want to step up to a more capable, more technologically advanced IFR platform. The -10 seems like a good fit. I'm still spending a lot of time learning about the building process and deciding whether to take the plunge.

Anyway, given the 1:1 drive ratio of the magneto drive pads, would it not be possible to install auxiliary generators (small) with voltage regulators on the pads to provide an independent power source for the ignition system? I seem to have seen something about an auxiliary alternator, but I'm thinking of a much smaller unit, designed only to provide emergency power for the ignition system.

Anyway, sorry if it's a silly idea, or one that has already been talked to death.

Also, I'm wondering if an ultracapacitor system could be used to provide a backup power supply. I guess one would need to know the normal load of the ignition system to properly size it.
 
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Welcome to VAF!

1001001 said:
Hello, all. I am a new member,
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Dave, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

By any chance do you mean magneto drive pads, instead of magnetic drive pads?? As far as I know, they are half speed drives, not 1:1. There is already a few alternators available for mounting on the vacuum pump drive pads, I have one on my RV 10 that is rated at 8A, as I recall there are 20A and 40A units also.

B and C makes them, possibly other vendors.

I am not aware of anyone making alternators that mount on the magneto drive pads --------- although the Pmag does have an internal alternator but it is solely dedicated to powering the Pmag.
 
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There are backup alternators available but they plug into the vacuum pad, which is generally no longer used.

Don't get too hung up on all this stuff right now. Most of it will change by the time you are ready for it. However, it is good you are starting to look into the options.
 
EFII

TO Aviator22 and 73(binary....)
Not flying yet, but close. I can attest to both the quality and support of EFII. I did A LOT of research before making my decision. Including visiting Robert and seeing the products first hand. They make the install very easy. You can have Dual ECU's for redundancy. I had planned a redundant electrical system anyway, so, it was easy to commit to full electronic. I too will have a standby alternator running on the vacuum pad which, in an emergency, can fill in and keep the ignition and fuel system running. The Bus Manager helps electrical system design come together easier with safety features built in.
Depending on your engine builder, they can install and break in your engine with the EFII system on board. With a factory engine, I don't know what would be involved other than pulling off the mags(or not having them installed in the first place).
 
N941WR said:
Don't get too hung up on all this stuff right now. Most of it will change by the time you are ready for it. However, it is good you are starting to look into the options.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I expect. It seems there has been a real exponential increase in the technology of experimental aircraft accessories since I first looked into building oh, 10 years ago now. I'm realizing the time will never be better for me to build, even if I get left behind on some technical advances.
 
1001001 said:
Yeah, that's what I expect. It seems there has been a real exponential increase in the technology of experimental aircraft accessories since I first looked into building oh, 10 years ago now. I'm realizing the time will never be better for me to build, even if I get left behind on some technical advances.
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Just stay away from those Li batteries!!!

Sorry - just had to take the shot. :D
 
rcpaisley said:
Hi Aviator,
No problem using our system with your AFS unit.
If you have any questions, you can contact me directly at [email protected]

Robert Paisley
EFII
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Rob, what kind of spark timing map are your units using ? It is not well known, although some here have learned that most EIs advance too much, and this is counter productive in what is basically a fixed low speed engine.

Cheers,
 
Mike S said:
Dave, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

By any chance do you mean magneto drive pads, instead of magnetic drive pads?? As far as I know, they are half speed drives, not 1:1.
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I did. "Autocorrect" on my phone is a heckuva thing.

I did some poking around on Google and found a reference that showed the mag drives as a 1:1 ratio to crank speed on the IO540, but I make no representation as to its accuracy or that of my interpretation of it. :) I was primarily thinking of a very small DC generator with a voltage regulator purpose built to provide power to the ignition system using the mag drives. I would imagine that one wouldn't want to put anything on the magneto drives that represents too much of a mechanical load, as I don't imagine a standard mag puts much load on its drive.

Alternately (no pun intended) a small alternator could be used, but if the electric system failed, you would still need a source for excitation.
 
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RV10inOz said:
Rob, what kind of spark timing map are your units using ? It is not well known, although some here have learned that most EIs advance too much, and this is counter productive in what is basically a fixed low speed engine.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

The advance cure information is available in the installation manual if I remeber correctly. I read it somewhere. With the EFII system you can program the advance curve anyway you want it.
 
EFII timing

Hi David,
We are very conservative with the ignition timing.
Our standard curve has an rpm based curve that brings in full timing of 30 degrees at 1500rpm and above. There is additionally a 4 degree MAP based retard at the highest manifold pressures. This yields 26 degrees at the highest power settings that gradually goes to 30 degrees at cruise settings. This works well for engines up to 9:1 compression. With compression higher than that, we lower the overall rpm based curve. Our method will keep you out of trouble even if a MAP sensor went haywire. You could always reduce power a little to stay out of detonation in the case of a bad sensor.

Robert
 
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