VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:14 AM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 11,998
Default

The first question we have to ask is “are you an engineer?” If the answer is yes, then the documentation question is answered - complete, step-by-step annotation of the plans, pictures with every rivet, a time-stamped log so you can track involvement to the nearest minute (including study, shopping and dreaming time). You’ll need backup copies of logs and photos of course, archived every evening...and maybe one done automatically at noon, just to be sure. I know all this becasue I’m an engineer....

From a legal perspective, you will be signing a piece of paper (when you have the airplane inspected) that states (under penalty of perjury) that you built it, and that has always been good enough for the FAA and DAR’s I have used. If you want the Repairman’s Certificate, you will need to prove to an inspector that you were sufficiently involved in teh build to know how to inspect it - most times, that requires photos of you and the airplane in various states of completion (the airplane....not you...). Other than that, records really aren’t required.

Practically speaking, do what feels right for you. My first build was significantly over-documented. Teh second, less so. The third, I took some pictures, and made date annotations in the builder’s manual. My fourth.... well, I refer you to various blogs on teh Kitplanes web site.....and so on, and so on....

Whatever you do - if its a burden that makes you not want to build - re-evaluate!

Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com

Last edited by Ironflight : 07-12-2019 at 09:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:23 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,453
Default Excel & Blogger

I'm on the far end. I don't recommend it but it works for me.
Daily stuff is hand written with date and time. Photos get taken.
Hand written notes get transferred to an Excel book while I can still understand my chicken scratch. Photos get backed up.
Excel notes and totals get transferred (copy/paste) to Google Blogger along with photos.
Active page gets printed to Pdf then new pages printed for my physical log.
Excel log has two pages for every section. One is financial. One is time. Both total back to a main page. Every minute and every penny is accounted.
Receipts get scanned before filing into binders.
Sounds time consuming but only takes about 30 minutes ever few weeks.
My Excel log is available on my log if anyone wants a basic builder log to start. It also has a full 7(a) inventory.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:02 AM
RV7A Flyer's Avatar
RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
The first question we have to ask is ďare you an engineer?Ē If the answer is yes, then the documentation question is answered - complete, step-by-step annotation of the plans, pictures with every rivet, a time-stamped log so you can track involvement to the nearest minute (including study, shopping and dreaming time). Youíll need backup copies of logs and photos of course, archived every evening...and maybe one done automatically at noon, just to be sure. I know all this becasue Iím an engineer....
You forgot a step...developing a *plan* for how you're going to do all of this before starting! Oh, and you'll need QA to verify that all those things were done after you do them LOL!
__________________
2019 Dues paid!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:20 AM
bkervaski's Avatar
bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,333
Default

I had a camera setup to automatically start recording whenever it sensed motion in the shop. Captured everything. As far as the steps taken, the manual covers that far more precisely than I could have logged.
__________________
RV-14A #140376
N196 (Flying)
2019 Bronze Lindy
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:41 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
From a legal perspective, you will be signing a piece of paper (when you have the airplane inspected) that states (under penalty of perjury) that you built it, and that has always been good enough for the FAA and DAR’s I have used.
Actually, more documentation than the 8130-12 is required.
From FAA Order 8130.2j:

b. Review Aircraft Records.
(1) Supporting Documentation for the Eligibility Statement.
(a)
Review the builder’s documentation to verify it shows: 1 What was fabricated, assembled, and inspected. 2 Who performed these actions. 3 The date the activity was performed. 4 Where the activity was performed. 5 The methods used. 6 Any commercial assistance or education assistance used.
__________________
Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
A&P/BGI/EAA (LifeTime) Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor/Nat'l Test Pilot School
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993, 172hp O-320, 3-Blade Catto (since 2003)Sold
Legend Cub purchased 12/2017
FRIEND of the RV-1
Eagle's Nest Mentor
Recipient of Wright Brothers "Master Pilot" Award

Last edited by Mel : 07-12-2019 at 02:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:04 AM
Bsquared Bsquared is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Valencia CA
Posts: 32
Default

Excel spreadsheet with embedded pictures. Tabs for each major section (kits) and extra tabs for SB accomplishment, rework and wiring list.
__________________
RV-14A
S/N #140480
Empennage and Slow build wings complete
Fwd and Aft fuselage Joined
N144BL reserved
Dues paid for 2019
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:44 PM
Mike.Smith Mike.Smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Prattville Alabama
Posts: 43
Default Awesome

This is all good stuff. I am not particularly the nerd in the family, thatís my wife. However, she loves and embraces that role, so I know going in that I have someone to document meticulously. I wouldnít mind others following along if it could help, them or me. I appreciate all the replies.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:10 PM
fixnflyguy fixnflyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winston-Salem, N.C.
Posts: 1,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski View Post
I had a camera setup to automatically start recording whenever it sensed motion in the shop. Captured everything. As far as the steps taken, the manual covers that far more precisely than I could have logged.
If I had done this, I would have been considered by most as unfit to build a plane!..the hours of pondering and shuffling around with an adult beverage likely exceeded the actual productive process.
__________________
Bill E.
RV-4/N76WE
8A7 / Advance NC
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-12-2019, 02:39 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,397
Default

There is no "required" format for the builder's log. Any simple chronological log is fine. Pictures and dates are important.
__________________
Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
A&P/BGI/EAA (LifeTime) Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor/Nat'l Test Pilot School
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993, 172hp O-320, 3-Blade Catto (since 2003)Sold
Legend Cub purchased 12/2017
FRIEND of the RV-1
Eagle's Nest Mentor
Recipient of Wright Brothers "Master Pilot" Award
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:15 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
The first question we have to ask is “are you an engineer?” If the answer is yes, then the documentation question is answered - complete, step-by-step annotation of the plans, pictures with every rivet, a time-stamped log so you can track involvement to the nearest minute (including study, shopping and dreaming time). You’ll need backup copies of logs and photos of course, archived every evening...and maybe one done automatically at noon, just to be sure. I know all this becasue I’m an engineer....
Guilty as charged...although with the advent of cloud based data, my stuff is backed up live.

I'm on my fourth build, and although I don't document every rivet, I do time myself from start to finish at each work event by writing the time at each step when I finish that step, which serves two purposes - the time it took to complete the step and then my own QA process of whereby the end time and initial indicates I've gone back and reviewed the work performed in that step against the drawing. I wrap up my work time by annotating total time and a summary of what I did into a spreadsheet and hyperlink to my photo folder where I put enough photos to accurately document the day's work - and hopefully provide a good reference should the day come I need to work on that component again - or possibly hand it off to a future owner who will probably value it even more.

My last FSDO visit for a Repairman Cert was for my RV12 last year and consisted of me sliding my 2" build-log binder across the desk; he opened it, noted my spreadsheet on the first few pages and then commented, "wow, over 500 pages?", flipped through a couple of them, asking a couple questions about why I chose my avionics package and did I use a tripod or did I get someone to take my picture on the photos I was in, and then him signing my cert. I think about 15 minutes all-in.

I'm rinsing-and-repeating on my RV10.
__________________
Ron Gawer

- RV10, Build in progress.
- RV12, N975G, "The Commuter"
- Several others that are now just great memories for me.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:40 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.