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  #41  
Old 11-14-2019, 06:10 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lon@carolon.net View Post
Now you tell me! [;-)

I thought that return-for-repair might be a possibility. But I'd been unable to fly my plane for more than 3 weeks, and when learned how to fix it, I was in a hurry to do that. I ordered a new module last Monday (a holiday, but Van's was working anyway), and the module was delivered on Wednesday. It was fast.

Also, my plane is at KSMO (Santa Monica), and frankly, between the airport's fees and insurance requirements, my per-day fixed ownership costs (not including fuel or maintenance) are so great that I haven't yet dared to calculate them. So not having the plane available is itself a cost, psychologically.

But, since you offered, how much would it cost to get my old module repaired? I may send it in for repair, so I'll have a spare in case the fuse in the new one blows as well, especially because I have no idea why the old one blew.
Your per diem costs will exceed the costs of the part when you include shipping costs both ways and turn around times. Trust me on this. Patch wire in a fuse holder at the VR to the switch, behind the dash. Make sure the gauge of wire used will flow enough current. 30 amps is 10 ga, 20 amp is 12 ga, 15 amps is 14 ga. If you are still blowing fuses, you better find out why and what is drawing all the current causing the blown fuses.

It's my understanding that there was a 1 amp fuse built into that switch. That's probably what you should replace with and 20 to 22 ga wire should be more than sufficient for 1 amp.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 11-14-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-14-2019, 06:31 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
If you are

Your per diem costs will exceed the costs of the part when you include shipping costs both ways and turn around times. Trust me on this. Patch wire in a fuse holder at the VR to the switch, behind the dash. Make sure the gauge of wire used will flow enough current. 30 amps is 10 ga, 20 amp is 12 ga, 15 amps is 14 ga. If you are still blowing fuses, you better find out why and what is drawing all the current causing the blown fuses.
You've just touched on one of the reasons I decided to buy a new module instead of the fuse patch that you and Joe recommend. I've never built a plane. This is the first plane I've ever owned, and I've owned it for just four months. I rented for 7 years. All of the flight schools from which I rented took care of everything, including putting fuel in the planes. Indeed, one school from which I rented prohibited renters from putting fuel in its planes, insisting instead that its planes be fueled by airport employees. In other words, until this week, I was a virgin when it came to airplane maintenance and repairs. You make a good point about using the right gauge of wire for the fuse patch. But I didn't know what the right gauge would be.

I agree that I need to find out why the fuse blew. But I don't know how to find out why. Joe says that fuses sometimes blow for no apparent reason. My plane is an ELSA which means it's a duplicate of a factory-built RV-12. It doesn't have anything electrical that factory-builts don't have. And my plane flew perfectly for more than a year and a half, 170 Hobbs hours, before the fuse blew. I don't think the plane is overloaded with electronics, but I'll keep a close eye on the Amps from now on.
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  #43  
Old 11-14-2019, 06:33 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
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Lon, Knowing that your plane is flying again makes my day.
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  #44  
Old 11-14-2019, 07:21 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lon@carolon.net View Post
You've just touched on one of the reasons I decided to buy a new module instead of the fuse patch that you and Joe recommend. I've never built a plane. This is the first plane I've ever owned, and I've owned it for just four months. I rented for 7 years. All of the flight schools from which I rented took care of everything, including putting fuel in the planes. Indeed, one school from which I rented prohibited renters from putting fuel in its planes, insisting instead that its planes be fueled by airport employees. In other words, until this week, I was a virgin when it came to airplane maintenance and repairs. You make a good point about using the right gauge of wire for the fuse patch. But I didn't know what the right gauge would be.

I agree that I need to find out why the fuse blew. But I don't know how to find out why. Joe says that fuses sometimes blow for no apparent reason. My plane is an ELSA which means it's a duplicate of a factory-built RV-12. It doesn't have anything electrical that factory-builts don't have. And my plane flew perfectly for more than a year and a half, 170 Hobbs hours, before the fuse blew. I don't think the plane is overloaded with electronics, but I'll keep a close eye on the Amps from now on.
Hopefully, you don't blow another internal fuse module. Something tells me you are drawing too much current and that's why the fuse blew. Or you had a low voltage situation from a low battery state of charge, upping the current draw.
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  #45  
Old 11-14-2019, 09:50 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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The blown fuse that caused the non charging issue being discussed is a pcb mounted / soldered in one amp fuse that supplies a sense voltage to the voltage regulator. It is not inside of any switch.

I am a bit baffled why someone would make an estimate of what a repair cost would be when as far as I am aware they have never submitted an AV-50001 switch module for repair.


I have no responsibility for invoicing repairs so I can't say exactly what the billed amount is but I think it is the neighborhood of $70. Add shipping to and from Van's to that and it would still be way south of $370.

I agree it would not have been as fast of a repair because of the shipping time in two directions instead of one, plus the turn around for the repair (usually 2-3 business days)
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  #46  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:27 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The blown fuse that caused the non charging issue being discussed is a pcb mounted / soldered in one amp fuse that supplies a sense voltage to the voltage regulator. It is not inside of any switch.

I am a bit baffled why someone would make an estimate of what a repair cost would be when as far as I am aware they have never submitted an AV-50001 switch module for repair.


I have no responsibility for invoicing repairs so I can't say exactly what the billed amount is but I think it is the neighborhood of $70. Add shipping to and from Van's to that and it would still be way south of $370.

I agree it would not have been as fast of a repair because of the shipping time in two directions instead of one, plus the turn around for the repair (usually 2-3 business days)
Only Lon knows what his fixed expenses per day are, and what his professional time is still worth. My educated guess is that he is or was able to bill in the mid to high multiple $100's per hour for his time. The new replacement part was evidently worth it to him, vs the down time.

I can't imagine Santa Monica Airport in Los Angeles being cheap per month, let along per day, when your plane is non op, to keep your plane at, not when Harrison Ford kept his plane there. The real estate all around that airport, in the event of an accident, can't make insurance rates cheap, either if a take off or landing creates liability damage to that below you. You don't always get the luxury of landing on the golf course, in the event of engine failure. Very, very high density housing down there, on expensive land, in Santa Monica, CA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...rash/31246511/

Last edited by NinerBikes : 11-15-2019 at 12:36 AM.
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  #47  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:40 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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You can see here, once Lionel has taken his RV-12 flying again, so you know it's fixed, and working.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N58CV
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  #48  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:47 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
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Location: Granada Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydiverlv View Post
Does this web site have a method of ignoring individual posters so I do not have to see someones posts that are normally hypothetical or without merit? You know, someone that does not even have an RV 12 and knows everything about them. If so, please let me know. There is someone I would love to exclude from my morning peruse and save my valuable time.
Keep scrolling... there's a lot of A/P's out there too that don't own a RV-12 and work on them.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 11-16-2019 at 04:31 PM.
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  #49  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:15 PM
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Tony_T Tony_T is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
The fact that master switch light is not working confirms that the 1 amp fuse
is blown. Ignition A and B switches should continue to light up because
they do not get power from the blown fuse. The master switch light is an
LED, which is unlikely to fail.
The best long term solution is to install an inline fuse holder near the
voltage regulator. If the new fuse blows in the future, it will be easy to
replace. The hardest part of the repair will be removing and reinstalling the
instrument panel sheet metal cover. You can have the plane back in the air
by lunch time tomorrow. The new fuse should be wired between regulator
terminal B and D-Sub pin 13 of the "AV50002 Ignition and Start Module".
To follow-up on Joe's inline fuse solution, D-Sub pin 13 is on the white/yellow wire of the short 8" IGNITION harness attached to the AV50002 Ignition and Start Module. I think it might be easy to access the short 8" IGNITION harness by removing the D1000/HDX and working through the opening and without having to remove the avionics bay cover. If necessary, removing the cover would, of course, allow easy access as can be seen in the picture.




If the short harness is removed the new fuse wire could be attached while working at a work bench. After replacing the harness the new wire could be routed through an existing snap bushing to the VR location.
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  #50  
Old 11-17-2019, 01:08 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Location: Santa Monica, California
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Tony,

Thanks for this. Two questions:

1. Is D-Sub pin 13 now an open unused pin, or would the new fuse wire share that pin with another wire that's already attached?

2. In your photo, it looks as though the Ignition Harness is routed through a black tube, just below the red shrink wrap, and that the black tube is much narrower than the D-Sub. If so, how would I get the Harness out of the plane and then back in again. Or is the "tube" actually part of the D-Sub itself, so that once I get access to it, I'll be able to take it out without passing it through anything?
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