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  #31  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:21 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
I have an early RV-12 with the Dynon D-180. Van's has made changes to the circuit board a couple of times since then.
Assuming that you have a later version, the fuse is probably located inside of the AV50001 Switch and Fuse Module.
Does the master switch light up? If not, that is a good indication that the 1 amp fuse is blown.
That fuse is probably out of sight inside of the AV50001.
I just got back from the airport. The Master switch does not light up when the Master is turned on. But the Ignition A and B switches do light up, and they are right next to the Master and in the same AV-50002 Ignition & Start module.

Would the Ignition A and B switches continue to light up, even if the fuse in the Switch and Fuse Module has blown? I ask, because I'm wondering whether the Master switch doesn't light up simply because the switch light itself has gone out, rather than because of a blown fuse. I'm hoping that the answer is that the Ignition A and B switch lights have nothing to do with the fuse and would continue to light up even if the fuse is blown. I hope that, because then you'll have helped me get a giant step closer to repairing the problem that's kept my plane on the ground for more than three weeks . . . of beautiful flying weather!
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Lon Sobel
Santa Monica, CA
RV-12, N58CV
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:22 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Location: Santa Monica, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMiller View Post
The C pin is both control and sense. The power on the C pin is what drives the SCR Gates, no C pin power, no gate voltage, no output. The sense circuit turns off the the gates when the set point is reached typically 14volts.
Thanks for this. I'm trying to understand what's going on, as well as fix it. And this explains a lot.
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Santa Monica, CA
RV-12, N58CV
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:08 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 2,940
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The fact that master switch light is not working confirms that the 1 amp fuse
is blown. Ignition A and B switches should continue to light up because
they do not get power from the blown fuse. The master switch light is an
LED, which is unlikely to fail.
The best long term solution is to install an inline fuse holder near the
voltage regulator. If the new fuse blows in the future, it will be easy to
replace. The hardest part of the repair will be removing and reinstalling the
instrument panel sheet metal cover. You can have the plane back in the air
by lunch time tomorrow. The new fuse should be wired between regulator
terminal B and D-Sub pin 13 of the "AV50002 Ignition and Start Module".
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RV-12 Flying
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  #34  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:17 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
The fact that master switch light is not working confirms that the 1 amp fuse
is blown. Ignition A and B switches should continue to light up because
they do not get power from the blown fuse. The master switch light is an
LED, which is unlikely to fail.
The best long term solution is to install an inline fuse holder near the
voltage regulator. If the new fuse blows in the future, it will be easy to
replace. The hardest part of the repair will be removing and reinstalling the
instrument panel sheet metal cover. You can have the plane back in the air
by lunch time tomorrow. The new fuse should be wired between regulator
terminal B and D-Sub pin 13 of the "AV50002 Ignition and Start Module".
This is the best news I've gotten in more than three weeks. Thank you!
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Santa Monica, CA
RV-12, N58CV
VAF Dues Paid
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  #35  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:18 AM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 134
Default No Joy with Diagnosis of Negative Amps & Declining Volts

I am a member of blew the 1 amp fuse that powers the VR club. I did it last year right before Oshkosh when I was installing ADS-B in and out, auto-pilot control module, knob module, and a Tosten stick grip. When I test flew the airplane the day before I was leaving for Oshkosh, I realized the battery was not charging. So last year I had to drive to Oshkosh.

I just studied the wiring diagram and I really like Joe's solution. My solution came from Van's and was to jumper the B & C terminals on the VR. I have read all the negative comments about that solution. I would like to get the green light on the Master Switch working again.

My question is "Has anyone replaced that one amp fuse" and if so, how hard is it. Al I know is it is soldered on the circuit board and Van's said to send it back for repair. I want to replace it myself, and I have a good bit of experience soldering, but I don't want to create a bigger problem. So has anyone done it and can you tell me about your experience.

Thanks
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John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 200 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a advancd Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #36  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:13 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
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My solution as described above restores the circuit to its original condition,
electrically speaking, even though it looks completely different. Basically the
fuse is being relocated to an easily accessible location near the voltage
regulator. Looking at Van's schematic, one end of the blown fuse is
connected to regulator terminal B. Follow the other end of the blown fuse
through the maze and it connects to D-Sub pin 13 of the AV-50002 Ignition &
Start Module. Those are exactly the same locations where the new inline
fuse will be connected. The only difference is that the new fuse is easily
accessible for replacement if necessary. After installing the new inline fuse,
the light on the master switch will work again.
So remove that jumper that creates a potential hazard. And install an
inline fuse so that the circuit will work as originally designed.
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RV-12 Flying
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  #37  
Old 11-13-2019, 06:35 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is online now
 
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Location: Riley TWP MI
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Lon,
Is your charging system working?
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RV-12 Flying
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  #38  
Old 11-14-2019, 04:48 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
Lon,
Is your charging system working?
Yes! As of 11 o'clock this morning. All thanks to you. Your diagnosis of a blown fuse in the Van's Switch & Fuse Module (AV-50001) was spot on.

Your recommended treatment -- inserting a new fuse between regulator terminal B and D-Sub pin 13 of the Ignition and Start Module -- is ingenious, and I considered it long and hard. Ultimately, though, I bought and installed a new Switch & Fuse Module, for reasons that were specific to my own circumstances.

Your recommendation would have cost just a sliver of what I paid to have Van's send me a new Module ($12 vs $370 plus tax and shipping). And your solution would have made replacing the new fuse cheap, simple and fast. I went with a new Module instead, because: I don't own the tools needed to follow your recommendation; I don't have a hangar to work in; and I didn't build the plane and had no experience maintaining it. It looked to me as though your recommendation would be a real project, while swapping out the old Module and putting in a new one would be easy. (Getting the old one out and putting in the new one turned out to be more difficult than I though it would be, but I did it.)

But the most important reason I decided to replace the Module is that my plane is an ELSA. Right now ELSAs cannot legally be used for flight instruction, but there is a pending FAA rule-making proceeding that is likely to result in a rule that permits ELSAs to be used for training. And I didn't want to do anything that might disqualify my plane, if such a rule is adopted.

Again, thank you so much for responding to my original post with your 100% accurate diagnosis. You are a life-saver, or at least a psyche-saver. For several days before your post, I feared that I was the owner of $90,000 worth of used airplane parts that I had no way of moving. Now I am once again the owner of a terrific little airplane that flies!
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Lon Sobel
Santa Monica, CA
RV-12, N58CV
VAF Dues Paid
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2019, 05:30 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,467
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Another option for anyone finding them self with a blown soldered in fuse is to return it to Van's to have the fuse replaced.
The cost of the repair is far less than the purchase price of the entire module.
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Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #40  
Old 11-14-2019, 05:46 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Another option for anyone finding them self with a blown soldered in fuse is to return it to Van's to have the fuse replaced.
The cost of the repair is far less than the purchase price of the entire module.
Now you tell me! [;-)

I thought that return-for-repair might be a possibility. But I'd been unable to fly my plane for more than 3 weeks, and when learned how to fix it, I was in a hurry to do that. I ordered a new module last Monday (a holiday, but Van's was working anyway), and the module was delivered on Wednesday. It was fast.

Also, my plane is at KSMO (Santa Monica), and frankly, between the airport's fees and insurance requirements, my per-day fixed ownership costs (not including fuel or maintenance) are so great that I haven't yet dared to calculate them. So not having the plane available is itself a cost, psychologically.

But, since you offered, how much would it cost to get my old module repaired? I may send it in for repair, so I'll have a spare in case the fuse in the new one blows as well, especially because I have no idea why the old one blew.
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RV-12, N58CV
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