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Extended Fuel

Paddy

Well Known Member
I've been planning a transatlantic trip to Ireland since I started building the -10. A tribute of sorts to the Irish who came before me to this great land in the knowledge that they would never return to the Emerald Isle. Anyways, here's my long-range tank installation. I designed the tank to hold 40 gallons and be easily installed and removed by one person. Fuel is plumbed into the 3rd port on the factory fuel valve. There's a small sump for the gravity feed, a finger strainer and an in-line fuel filter. A no-drip quick disconnect snaps into a fitting installed in the tunnel inside the area normally covered by the flap cover. The vent is similarly located through the tunnel and out the bottom of the fuse. A resistive sender connects to a spare channel the G3X and shows fuel level on the engine page alongside the main tanks.

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The tank is secured to the rear seatback hinge and the outboard seatbelt anchors, as well as another hinge attachment, using extruded hinge, to the front edge of the seat pans. Fuel flow test results are similar to the wing tanks and flight testing shows no anomalies within the normal flight envelope. The tank weighs 43lbs with hose and fittings and the W&B station is the same as for rear passengers.

i-jBdSG97-M.jpg
 
I love reading about guys with a plan to really travel. Best of luck on your planning and then your trip. Your tank looks nice!
 
Thats a great looking tank! Does it have internal slosh baffles, or are they even needed? Did you do the welding?
 
Wow, that really looks good! Seems like you've thought it out well and covered the safety aspects. So what will be your total endurance now?
 
Thats a great looking tank! Does it have internal slosh baffles, or are they even needed? Did you do the welding?

The tank has 2 internal baffles. I had an expert do the welding - I only wish to be that good someday!
 
Economy cruise is 155ktas @ 8.5gal/hr at altitude. I'm running mags, so I can't get quite as lean as I'd like. Still, that yields about 10 hrs endurance accounting for climb to altitude of 12k or so.
 
I was looking to make a tank out of 1/4? carbon fiber premade boards (carbon over foam) but this looks like an option. Who made it and how much did it cost?

Carl
 
Do you have the filler port inside the cabin? I think you?ll want some sort of vapor recovery nozzle/seal (like at car gas stations) to keep from filling the cabin with fumes.
 
Do you have the filler port inside the cabin? I think you?ll want some sort of vapor recovery nozzle/seal (like at car gas stations) to keep from filling the cabin with fumes.

Bob, I had the same concerns about uncontrolled fumes during fuelling, so much so that I invested a good deal of time figuring out a detachable extension to the filler neck to keep the operation outside the cabin. I abandoned that though after finding that a damp cloth held around the nozzle and filler neck did the job just fine, and I can take a peek in there as the level gets near the top, so it doesn't overflow.

Carl, the whole setup cost about $1k to fabricate. The welder isn't comfortable with referrals for aviation jobs, so I'll respect his wishes about that. However, I'm told there are a number of tank fabricators that'll make a custom tank to your specs for a variety of "off-road applications".
 
What's the possibility of using a Roto-molded, polyethylene plastic boat fuel tank vs having someone weld up an aluminum one from scratch? A 40 gal one from West Marine costs $220.

I looked into that as well as race car fuel cells, but I wasn't comfortable with being able to manage electrostatic discharge issues with polyethylene. There may well be a way to make it safe, I'm just not too familiar.
 
Paddy, did you ever consider converting your outboard leading edges to fuel tanks, like others have done?

Good luck with your flught!
 
Paddy, did you ever consider converting your outboard leading edges to fuel tanks, like others have done?

Bill, I did look at doubling up the wing tanks and have seen some very nicely executed examples of that approach by other builders. If the extra fuel is going to be needed on a regular basis, and the pilot is comfortable with the polar moment of the extra weight outboard in the wing, I think it's a good option. In my case, I know I'll seldom need that extra range, so being able to completely remove the tank seemed to fit the mission better.
 
Nice piece of engineering Paddy. What route do you plan to fly? Gander to Greenland, or to Iceland? Any issues with foreign governments with a home spun tank like this? What about safety gear like a dry suit and a raft?

Mark
 
Route

Hi Mark, Planned route is CYFB - BGSF - BIRK - EIWT. This route stays north of the Gander FIR, so HF radio is not required. No issues anticipated with the tank, since it was designed and built for the airplane by the manufacturer (me). Special permission for EAB aircraft is required however, by Denmark (Greenland), and I've already applied for that. Iceland, according to their latest AIP has no special requirements, although they have had them in the past. I'll have to check on that one for sure... Safety and survival equipment is definitely required, including both an immersion suit and a life raft. There's a great write up on this trip already in the forums by Mark Albery entitled "crossing the pond". It's a great read. The biggest challenge so far has been obtaining insurance to meet European requirements. I've found coverage, but it's expensive - hence the sale of lots of good RV stuff over in the classifieds!
 
North Atlantic

Many years ago, before the HF requirement, I did this via Goose, Narsarssuak, Reykavik. A piece of cake EXCEPT for Greenland. I have no desire or reason to ever go to Greenland again.
Most people thinking about this SEVERELY underestimate the dangers that Greenland presents.
St. Johns to Shannon Ireland Is 1693 nautical. 11.3 hours at 150 knots.
HF radios can be rented for $600 a week. So much better and safer than the far northern route.
 
Many years ago, before the HF requirement, I did this via Goose, Narsarssuak, Reykavik. A piece of cake EXCEPT for Greenland. I have no desire or reason to ever go to Greenland again.
Most people thinking about this SEVERELY underestimate the dangers that Greenland presents.
St. Johns to Shannon Ireland Is 1693 nautical. 11.3 hours at 150 knots.
HF radios can be rented for $600 a week. So much better and safer than the far northern route.

As another person who wants to fly this trip some day on my -10, I'm very interested in hearing more about the issues with Greenland.

About the tanks - seriously, how do I place an order? :)
 
Greenland

Freezing level in Greenland in July was 4000'. With no deicing equipment this essentially means staying out of the clouds. Greenland is notorious for really ugly weather even in mid summer. It is said that when the weather is good in Greenland it is bad in Iceland and I found that to be true on my trip. Moderate rain from East coast of Greenland all the way to Reykavek.
100 knot surface winds in Greenland occasionally occur. I met a guy with an Aztec in Goose, he had been waiting 10 days for better weather in Narssarsuak. I was only on the ground a few hours at Goose, no problem in Greenland. I had just enough fuel to return to Goose if necessary.
The St. Johns to Shannon route in mid summer is relatively benign. Pretty good "big picture" weather available for the entire route.
220knots.com will access a guy who has been doing this for years, he can provide more current information. You probably will need to pay for the info but well worth it.
 
N Atlantic

Lots of good history on this. Many libraries have old Flying magazines. In Jan 1954 Flying magazine wrote about three long distance flights, two across the NA. Peter Gluckman did the Greenland Iceland route in a Luscombe 8F. Round trip San Francisco to Germany, Marion Rice Hart did it with a copilot in a B35 Bonanza, St Johns to Shannon. She then spent most of a year flying all over N Africa, the Middle East and all the way to India. She later flew solo around the world in a later Bonanza.
Max Conrad was one of the first, two round trips to Switzerland in a Piper Pacer. This was the start of his long career ferrying light aircraft around the world and later his many world record flights in Piper Aircraft.
 
History

The epic feats of pilots like Gluckman, Conrad and Rice are indeed fascinating. Add to that the fact that they accomplished these flights more than 50 years ago before GPS, digital radios, satellite communicators, ADSB with NexRad or even decent global weather models and you have to marvel at their sense of adventure. Airports like Frobisher Bay and Sondre Sondstrom were still military installations and so unavailable to them. Nevertheless, the weather is still as bad and the perils of the route just as serious. The vast majority of ferry operators now use the northern route because it offers the shortest leg distances over open water and a few more alternates than the more direct route to the south. It’s easy to find accounts of trips on this route on YouTube, here’s an example;
https://youtu.be/W9Uf-ynoDUE
 
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Thanks for sharing, that's really good to know.

220knots.com will access a guy who has been doing this for years, he can provide more current information. You probably will need to pay for the info but well worth it.

I'm afraid that domain doesn't seem to exist (anymore?).
 
The Azores is fine as a winter or bad weather alternative if you have the range and equipment including reserves. Several aircraft have crashed into the only mountain in the middle of the North Atlantic, although that was before GPS.

Manuel Queiroz and Jon Johansson both chose that route on their RV world flights.

But my preference during the May to September period would always be the Northern route. Greenland is a very special place to visit, HF not required and can be flown in legs of not more than 350 NM with some planning (250 NM is technically possible!). That is the most popular route for smaller aircraft without extended range regularly through the Summer months.

If you just want to cross 2000 miles of ocean without seeing anything, a first class airline ticket is a lot cheaper and easier.
 
Atlantic

Bermuda and the Azores used to be a popular route but Bermuda has not had avgas for years. Not sure about the Azores. That was the route taken by Gerry Mock, first woman solo around the world. East coast to Bermuda was her first actual IFR. Cessna 180.
 
Atlantic

Oops! She spelled her name Jerrie, not Gerrie. Her book is 38Charlie and is still available. Flight was done in March-April 1964.
Into the wind is book about Max Conrad.
Fate is the Hunter by Ernie Gann covers the early WWII history of the Goose-Greenland-Iceland route. Many of the airports were built in the early days of WWII.

















Book about Max Conrad is Into the Wind.
Fate is the Hunter by Ernie Gann covers the early WWII era and the Greenland and Iceland airports which were built in early WWII.
 
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