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Will 7 face the fate of RV3,4,6 ?

osaleh

Active Member
is there anyone else still building an RV7 that is worried that the RV14 will cause Vans to discontinue the somewhat similar albeit cheaper, RV7?

I read the notice for the models 3,4 and 6 significant order times and prices and was wondering if the same will happen to 7.
 
I hope not!

I just finished the empennage of my-7 so I really hope not!

I would think that as long as there are no replacements for the -8 /-9 they won't discontinue since they share a lot of common parts.

But what do I know..
 
I wouldn't fret or cause concern where there isn't any. :) The 7 happens to be the most popular kit. :)

Vic
 
The demise of the ?SIX? withthe 7 arrival.

I thought the same thing when Van?s discontinued the 6 and introduced the 7 in 2001. I had just finished the tail and started the wings. I was sick. :eek:. Vans assured me they would be there to support me and anyone else that invested in a 6 serial number but you know how that usually turns out.:rolleyes:
The experimental aircraft business is littered with broken promises. :eek: 17 years later and just finishing my project, Vans has been there for me with a good answer to every question, a replacement for every part I screwed up, and generally looking over my shoulder to assure a successful completion. If every company in the USA followed Vans business model we would be in a much better place. :)
 
I doubt it, other than ageing airframes. The 6 and 7 are functional and cost equals. No surprise then that the fabrication technology, range, and almost-don't-notice slightly larger cabin of the 7 would prevail over the 6. The 14 doesn't replace the 7, being more expensive to build and operate, no slider, weaker structure; it's a fat cruiser, not sporty, and in my less-than-humble opinion it's greater cabin volume isn't as useful as it appears. The 14's kit improvements cease after the build, having no effect on the operational characteristics.

John Siebold
 
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I wouldn't fret or cause concern where there isn't any. :) The 7 happens to be the most popular kit. :)

Vic

There are still significantly more RV6's flying than any other model, so I'm not sure what the definition of "most popular" is. Perhaps there are more sold and still under construction.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/first-flights.htm

As of March 15, 2018 10,086 RV aircraft have been completed and flown!

Listed by Model
RV-3 298
RV-4 1,416
RV-6/6A 2,636
RV-7/7A 1,679
RV-8/8A 1,454
RV-9/9A 1,082
RV-10 881
RV-12 587
RV-14/14A 53
 
It would be interesting to see those same hull numbers divided by how many years the respective kits have been on the market.
 
I'll start worrying when they take the empennage off the market. The RV-6 had the empennage removed from future sales for quite some time it seemed.
 
Don't forget the -7, -8, and -9 share a lot of common parts. If Van's were to kill one off, then they still have to produce the parts to support the other two.

The price point of the -14 is significantly higher than the smaller siblings and I may be wrong, but I suspect if Van's drops the less expensive models and sells fewer of the higher cost -14's, then they may not be profitable. It is always a question in marketing; fewer high price items or more low price items?
 
I don't think the -7 is going anywhere for a long time. Its their "entry level" kit for a side-by-side two seater. Its cheaper than a -14 and it its a "niche" that the -14 can't really fill.

Its lighter, smaller, faster (with equiv. HP). climbs better and all around is just a slightly better performer for a cheaper price.

It's also much more versatile in build options. You can build it light and cheap, and power it with an economical smaller engine, or you can go on the other end of the spectrum. The -14 is kind of limited in build options (but for a very valid reason though).

Now, I am in no way, trash talking a -14. Its a superb airplane. It just targets a different audience. An audience that the -7 never really sold well to. I'd say that the -7 is like a "coupe" where the -14 is like a sedan. They're not very much different from each other, but JUST different enough that they attract different buyers. I don't think one substitutes the other, or is an upgrade to the other.

IMHO, the -7 and -14 are serving their markets very well, and probably aren't canabalizing sales for the other.
 
The 14 doesn't replace the 7, being more expensive to build and operate, no slider, weaker structure;

I am curious what the basis of the weaker structure part of your opinion is?

Have you seen the RV-14 gear drop tests?
The entire airplane was designed using FAR23 as a reference (meaning, tests weren't necessarily done to confirm compliance with every detail).
 
There are still significantly more RV6's flying than any other model, so I'm not sure what the definition of "most popular" is. Perhaps there are more sold and still under construction.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/first-flights.htm

As of March 15, 2018 10,086 RV aircraft have been completed and flown!

Listed by Model
RV-3 298
RV-4 1,416
RV-6/6A 2,636
RV-7/7A 1,679
RV-8/8A 1,454
RV-9/9A 1,082
RV-10 881
RV-12 587
RV-14/14A 53

Since the O.P.'s question was in the context of concern that it would be phased out of production.... the only thing that would cause that would be dwindling sales.

In the context of recent sales, Vic's statement is true. It is only natural I guess, since the model that the RV-7 replaced is just an improved version of the worlds most popular kit airplane.......
 
I had some time to kill so I ran the sales numbers divided by the number of years on the market.

The 7 has sold an average of 99 kits per year. The 14 has sold 9. The numbers don?t seem to show that the 7 is in danger of being displaced by the 14. In fact, the opposite appears to be the concern.

Here?s all of them. Units sold divided by years available.

3. 6.3
4. 26
6. 80
7. 99
8. 63
9. 68
10 59
12. 73
14. 8.8
 
I had some time to kill so I ran the sales numbers divided by the number of years on the market.

The 7 has sold an average of 99 kits per year. The 14 has sold 9. The numbers don?t seem to show that the 7 is in danger of being displaced by the 14. In fact, the opposite appears to be the concern.

Here?s all of them. Units sold divided by years available.

3. 6.3
4. 26
6. 80
7. 99
8. 63
9. 68
10 59
12. 73
14. 8.8

I don't think using the number of completions factored over years really tells the story.... there is lots of RV-7's still under construction.
If the number of years the 14 has been available factored against kit starts is taken into consideration, it is in somewhat the same position (only about 10% of the 14 kits under construction have flown).
 
I wasn?t trying to present a definitive analysis, just a different perspective.
Obviously the newest offering gets skewed a bit by its very newness.
There are lots of mitigating factors such as older Kits being started when newer kits that may have been otherwise chosen weren?t announced yet.
The good news for all of us is that the company and its product line appear to be quite healthy.
 
When I was building my RV-7/A, there were many thoughts of converting it to a single seat configuration. ;)
 
Not sold per year.

I believe those ratios are number of kits ?completed? per years sold. I don?t think we know the actual number of kits sold per year by model.
 
I believe those ratios are number of kits ?completed? per years sold. I don?t think we know the actual number of kits sold per year by model.

We sort of do, from the serial numbers. My 14A #404 was ordered about five years after the model was announced, meaning that Van's shipped about 80 starts per year on average, likely fewer in the early years and more in the later years. Thread here if someone is in the mood for some data mining.
 
Sales Volume by Model

Does anyone know if the RV-7 is sold more by Van's than other models? Which model seems to be most desirable base on kits sales?
 
Does anyone know if the RV-7 is sold more by Van's than other models? Which model seems to be most desirable base on kits sales?
Yes RV-7/A most popular of current models, second to RV-6 NLA. There are about 10,600 RV's built. What are current sales? Ask Van's.
Completed
RV14 113
RV12 667
RV10 933
RV9 1134
RV8 1536
RV7 1785 *
RV6 2678 * Most built to date
RV4 1436
RV3 306
 
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Recently the RV-14 has been our most prolific kit in terms of sales. The -10 is close behind, and the -7 and -8 are also quite active. The -12 is doing fine as well and the -9 also remains quite popular.

Our sales of kits for the -3 and -4 are relatively smaller in number, of course. And we still support them all, including the -6 of course.

Overall, kit sales for CY2019 were strong.
 
Since the O.P.'s question was in the context of concern that it would be phased out of production.... the only thing that would cause that would be dwindling sales.

In the context of recent sales, Vic's statement is true. It is only natural I guess, since the model that the RV-7 replaced is just an improved version of the worlds most popular kit airplane.......
Thanks for your critique of my post. Seems like the RV6/RV7 is most desirable based on past sales.. I don't have access to Van's current business data, kit sales. Past performance may not be a prediction of the future, but it does show RV-6 and RV-7 models historically as the most popular.

Will the RV-14 be more popular? Will RV-9/RV-14 replace the RV-7 and discontinue RV-7? Don't know but I don't think so. RV-14 is a better easier to build kit. RV-14 gets the same performance on 200HP as a RV-7 with 180 HP. I don't need a "wide body" RV-7. I'm partial to the RV-7, and my opinion is the RV-7 will be around for some time to come. As others stated there is commonality with RV-9 and RV-12.

The RV-3 has low completions (and assume sales), but I gather it is still available because VanGrunsven has a fondness for it. At Oshkosh decades ago someone asked "What is your favorite RV the RV-4 or RV-6." His answer RV-3. If Van who is founder, owner, CEO wants to produce a kit it will be produced :D
 
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I doubt it, other than ageing airframes. The 6 and 7 are functional and cost equals. No surprise then that the fabrication technology, range, and almost-don't-notice slightly larger cabin of the 7 would prevail over the 6. The 14 doesn't replace the 7, being more expensive to build and operate, no slider, weaker structure; it's a fat cruiser, not sporty, and in my less-than-humble opinion it's greater cabin volume isn't as useful as it appears. The 14's kit improvements cease after the build, having no effect on the operational characteristics.

John Siebold

Where is the -7 cabin larger then the -6?
 
Where is the -7 cabin larger then the -6?
Read the context of the paragraph, RV-7 vs RV-14... Sorry you misunderstood.... The RV-14 has bigger cockpit than RV-7, no mention of RV-6. The RV-6/RV-7/RV-9 share similar (or identical) fuselage and cabin dimensions which are SAT for me. A few minutes on Van's web site will make it clear.
 
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Thanks for your critique of my post.

:confused:
I'm confused about your comment George.......

The the post that you quoted (dated from almost 2 years ago) was addressed to a post made by Northernliving. I don't see that you had even made any posts earlier in this thread.......
 
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:confused:
I'm confused about your comment George.......

The the post that you quoted (dated from almost 2 years ago) was addressed to a post made by Northernliving. I don't see that you had even made any posts earlier in this thread.......
I am confused. Post #22 I repeated similar data as Northernliving. I see you replied to him. My bad. Sorry.
 
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The -7 affords more room by virtue of lowering the floor and moving the instrument panel forward. Having owned both, I can say that the improvements make the -7 "feel" roomier.
 
I fly my friend's RV6 and my own RV7. Love them both. The -6 seems a bit more cramped, but not much. Identical engines and his -6 is faster. Very amazing airplanes.
 
Would this engine make any sense on a RV14? Anyone doing/done this?

The RV-14 was specifically designed to use the angle valve IO-360 Lycoming.
It is ~35 heavier than the typical parallel valve 180 HP engine so there would be weight and balance issues (among many others) to deal with.
 
sales run rate year to year by model

i would think a "run rate" for the kit sales year to year, by each model, this would show which model has strong sales - flat - or down. Assume all new kits will get completed some day. i love my -14 the only short coming is the lack of a cargo door like on the -10.
 
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