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Taboo discussion needed to revitalize GA, build community

We lived like paupers as there was no other way to do it. Our priority was not to pay for the airplane but to get out of debt. I worked overseas in the armpits of the world and we had our house paid off in 12 years. Being out from under a mortgage gives you more freedom to do other things. Get out of debt! That is the most important item in life to do. If you have to purchase with credit/mortgage, don't do it.

We started the plane in '95 finished in Feb 2000. Along the way we doubled the size of the house (all done by me and wife) which included a new heated shop to build the airplane in. Overseas in the armpits of the world paid for the addition.

After flying for a couple of years I wanted a constant speed prop and the wife wanted new eyes. So we borrowed money from our saving for both. We set up a payment plan with interest. Worked well.

We bought a hangar in 2005 and mortgaged the house against it. $100,000 at 2.99% APR as investments were turning an easy 7% it was easy to use other peoples money in that instance. I forgot to tell the wife my plan and she paid off the hangar in 5 years. Good girl! Have I mentioned how nice it is to be debt free?

We drove old cars. Granted we bought my wife's new and finally sold it 21 years later with 396000 miles on it. My trusty old 86 Mustang rag top (bought used)had 400,000 when I let her go for another used car. We still drive used vehicles. My wife's is a 2001 and my winter vehicle is a 2002 (312,000 miles) and summer is a '67 Mustang. Average age of our autos is 1990! I do not believe I will ever buy another new car. Oh, I also maintain all of our cars. If I can build and maintain an RV I can do the same for the autos.

We don't eat out much as we prefer home cooked meals. We have no TV except Amazon Prime and Netflix.

When I started the plane in '95 I made about $40K/year, not much but enough. Through the years the income came up, the overseas work paid well, and when I became unemployed last year at the age of 59 I made about $120K/year. Not much by todays standards but we live debt free.

We now have a nice home (3700 sq ft) a hangar (3000 sq ft) an airplane and 3 used automobiles and a 1942 2N Ford tractor. We don't try and keep up with the Jones's as I like being debt free. Did I mention the debt free ticket to fulfillment?

So now in simi-retirement it is all about getting rid of the years of getting. Old stuff is being tossed and new stuff added. The 6A is scheduled for a panel upgrade to glass and ADS-B. Last week I installed he first piece of the upgrade: a Garmin G5. By 2020 the plane with have a modern glass panel.
 
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..has worked for me so far too. Although I'm not happy with how long it's taking, I keep reminding myself to stop looking at the whole elephant! Financially speaking, my wife and I set forth a budget and savings plan for our RV-10 build, complete with a schedule of milestone expenses so we could be sure we'd hit the milestones with our savings plan. It was all neat and tidy until we had our first child, then a second. Not only did expenses rise, but the priority level of the build dropped, dramatically; especially in my wife's mind (she is not a pilot). Schedule went out the window and it's been hard to prioritize money away from "family/nesting expenses."

But.... you keep plugging away at it. Embrace the time-savers and give up on the time-wasters. If money gets tight, you find ways to either cut expenses or raise extra income. Little by little, you'll see a pile of metal start to resemble a well-built, capable aircraft. For me, along the way, I've also seen two tiny, wrinkly, uncoordinated bundles of flesh start to resemble well-adjusted children, a busted-up shell of a house start to resemble a home, and an emotionally induced romance start to resemble a seasoned marriage.

All meaningful things in life take time and effort to achieve.

Well said..

A little over a year into my -10 build, and my wife is due with our first in July.

I'm sure I won't have as much time for building as I do now, but I will continue to chip away at it.

I too am paying for it with cash as I go. I'm very fortunate that my company is giving us pretty good bonus' and RSU stock options as part of my overall compensation. Those are basically primarily funding my build.
 
We drove old cars. Granted we bought my wife's new and finally sold it 21 years later with 396000 miles on it. My trusty old 86 Mustang rag top (bought used)had 400,000 when I let her go for another used car. We still drive used vehicles. My wife's is a 2001 and my winter vehicle is a 2002 (312,000 miles) and summer is a '67 Mustang. Average age of our autos is 1990! I do not believe I will ever buy another new car. Oh, I also maintain all of our cars. If I can build and maintain an RV I can do the same for the autos.

This made me smile for a couple of reasons. First, there are plenty of us that park a beautiful plane and drive away in a beater. Me included. As the adage says "The cheapest thing in the airplane is the pilot" :)

Secondarily, I have been asked about some of my classic vehicles and I have responded "Buy them new (or nearly so), take care of them and they will become classics on their own" :rolleyes:
 
Just drove back home to Buffalo from Central Florida. Two days, along the way I must have seen many hundred of "campers" most of which cost way more than an RV, 172 and in many cases a Bonanza.

In many cases the means are there, the desire/drive/dream is lacking.

Carl
 
Choices (again)

It really is about choices. While my wife has a decent car, I drive 2005 toyota the 11 miles back and forth to work, day-in, day-out. But, I'm 1 month into flying my rv-12 that i built, and, from where i sit, that is a helluva a lot more fun than people I know who have a couple of $40K plus new cars.

-nick
 
Missed Rachel, but hey, there's one kid I can help. Just ordered a little thing for Ms. Patti. How often can a guy (safely) make two girls happy at the same time?

My spouse felt the same way. She liked the jewelry and thought Rachel's story was compelling.

Like I said, if Rachel can figure out how to fund her flying lessons AND build her own airplane, many of us can do the same. Yes I know, we might have kids, a mortgage, car payment etc., but I was quite impressed with the resourcefulness and drive of this young person. Gives me great hope for the cell phone addicted millennial generation.
 
In many cases the means are there, the desire/drive/dream is lacking.

How many of them even know that personal flying is out there as an option, let alone the kinds of things that we in the RV community have seen (group trips, aerobatic competition, volunteer/charity flights, fly-ins, etc)? The vast majority of the public "knows" that flying is for the airlines, military, and rich folk in private jets; they probably have no idea that small airports exist, let alone where the nearest ones are. If they think of small airplanes at all, they think of crashes or they think of the pilots as security risks or wild ******s that do stupid things.

Most people are locked into perceptions that truly limit their own imaginations of what they believe they can achieve. Getting a person to realize for themselves that they can actually do something they never thought possible is a true trick that if we could accomplish would unlock so much potential.
Indeed. If we want to get people to realize what we can do, we have to show them. That means introducing people to flying at a time in their life that they can afford to do something about it. Flying kids is great, but 99% of those flown under the YE program won't be able to do anything about it for at least several years, if not a decade or two.
 
My story is similar to the folks that have already posted. I started out a few years ago, in a different job, that paid much less. I was making around 45k a year, but my wife was also working, and paying off student loans so we didn't have a lot of extra cash.

My first purchase was an Isham Tool kit that was being sold here on the forums, which I picked up using some tax return money I had squirreled away one year. I saved a good bit on the tools by buying used.

Then, a few years later in 2015 I found a RV-7 tail kit that was also being sold here on the forums. It was an un-started kit, and was in pristine condition and was exactly what I was looking for, even though I was not fully ready to buy it yet. We settled on a price that was significantly cheaper than buying the kit from Van's and I used some money I had been saving to pay for the kit.

Between the time I bought the tail kit and now, I landed a better paying job at my dream company....a job that paid bonuses for the first time in my life. My wife and I agreed that since we had been living comfortably on my old jobs salary, we'd just keep to that lifestyle and just stash the bonuses away every quarter to pay for the RV-7. Since I had already bought a tail kit, I would be saving up for the wings as I built the tail. Then, after buying the wings, I'd save up for the fuse while I built the wings, etc...

That's what we did. I started my tail kit in October of 2016 (over a year since I had bought it) but all the while I was saving all my bonuses in a separate account to pay for the wings. I finished my tail kit around the end of March, and placed an order for my slow build wings shortly after. Wings are scheduled to be crated on 5-29-17!!

I had saved about 95% of the cost of my wings using the bonus-stashing method. I paid the other 5% using a credit card that I plan on paying off in a month or two. Once I have that lat 5% paid off, I plan on keeping on with the bonus-stashing method to pay for the fuselage, and then repeat the process for the finishing kit.

About 6 months ago, my company began offering an employee stock purchasing program, where we are guaranteed a 15% discount on the stock price when its purchased. I took advantage of this, and put a few % of my salary into this program (where else can you get a promised 15% return on any investment???) and all these proceeds will begin going towards the airplane savings account.

At some point, my fuselage will be completed and all the kits will be done and the plane will be ready for its engine, avionics and paint. Because these are really big purchases, I am planning on getting a conventional aircraft loan to fund this and purchase them all at once. If all things go as planned, I will have enough money in the airplane savings account from my "bonus-stashing" method to pay a decent down payment on that loan. Likewise, I am planning on continuing to use my bonus payments to pay down the principle of the aircraft loan as well.

As far as lifestyle, my wife and I welcomed our first daughter in this world 11 months ago! We are only planning on having one kid since we struggled to have the first one (don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the "attempts" but facing possible infertility is stressful for a couple). We are not "rich", but we are frugal. She has a newer car that we bought when she was pregnant (it was a pre-owned 2015 model) because we wanted something safe for the baby. But, I drive an old beater: 1992 Acura Integra thats got around 355k miles on it and leaks oil from *somewhere* I have yet to find. hah. The beater does all I need it to do, and I actually like driving it because that thing is solely living on spite at this point. It is almost like driving one of those "rat rods" because its so ugly!

We are fortunate that when we vacation, we use points that I earn from all my business travels, and we usually only do a vacation every other year or so. With the new baby, we decided to forgo vacations for a while until the baby is more "travelable", opting for a little long weekend getaway and stay-cations at home.

Aviation is just silly expensive and it sucks. Its one thing I absolutely love, but hate it for all the silly expenses that comes along. That's one reason I am doing experimental....its a great way to save money and be more active in aviation. I consider myself pretty handy and decently capable, so why would I need to pay gobs of money to an A&P to do something like upgrading avionics, or an oil change?

You and I are living very similar lives it seems like...lol

We are currently paying off our student loans debts aggressively and I've recently been given some awesome increases in pay and bonuses. My wife also is eligible for an ESPP with a 6 month look back and 15% discount so an opportunity for a lot of "growth". My wife is currently pregnant with our first and I drive a 1997 Acura Integra that has some unknown loss of oil that I have not been able to locate despite my numerous attempts.


I haven't started building but I'm hopeful that in some reasonable timeframe from now we'll get started.
 
Newer cars are becoming appliances (self driving will only accelerate this), Uber etc. are nurturing the idea that owning a vehicle is obsolete. Mfg's are challenging basic principles of "ownership" and right to repair that we took for granted only a few years ago (e.g. tractor DRM [Deere], toner cartridges [Lexmark]). None of that hits GA directly, but it all contributes to a cultural shift where we increasingly depend upon others for our transportation, entertainment and other basic needs.
Sad, but probably true. I worry this cultural shift from desiring responsibility and independence to desiring irresponsibility and dependence, will bring about generations who will suffer under the harsh rule of the few. On the bright side, perhaps the cycle will then start over...
Just to be contrary... let's look at it from the other perspective, at least as regards transportation and ownership thereof. For many people (far more than you'd suspect), a self-driving or "on-demand" car service isn't about "desiring irresponsibility and dependence" at all. To anyone who can't drive due to age or a medical condition (like my wife), a self-driving car represents a massive increase in independence; even something like Uber is incredibly helpful for getting anywhere outside of walking distance. To someone of limited income, Uber might be the only realistic way of getting to occasional destinations outside the range of public transportation or walking that doesn't incur massive (to them) capital and operational costs. It's a possible way around the Vimes's Boots situation.
Barring a change in my wife's medical condition, I'll likely be buying the first self-driving car I can get my hands on that will let my wife be able to do things like go to the grocery store, drop our son at preschool, or visit me for lunch at work. Because as it stands now, she's dependent on me to drive her to all of those places.

That's not to say I'm not concerned about the shift towards OEMs trying to control repair and service information of products, DMCA, etc. I'm just trying to point out that things like pooled ownership (e.g. flying clubs, airplane partnerships, etc.) might represent a way to put GA within reach of more people, and that development like Uber and self-driving cars aren't the soul-sucking demons they're sometimes made out to be.



As far as revitalizing GA, it ain't happening. GA was the apex expression of freedom for a number of generations who had imaginations powered by transportation (and chemical propulsion). The newer generations are inspired by electrons and technology, and transportation is becoming merely a means to a destination, rather than celebrating the act of movement in and of itself.
Hogwash.

Why is chemical propulsion a necessary component for someone to be inspired by the freedom of transportation, by any mode? Is a sailboat or a high-performance glider uninspiring or any less of a freedom?

And what's wrong with dreaming of electrically-powered transportation? An electric car or airplane may be silent, clean (no oil on the belly to clean off!), low maintenance, and "fueled" for pennies compared to a hydrocarbon-fueled vehicle. Yes, the technology is still maturing. Is that a reason to dismiss it?

And finally, I think transportation has always been primarily about "a means to a destination". Merely being able to "celebrate the act of movement" and enjoy it for the experience has historically been a rich man's hobby. Only with the advent of the personal vehicle and affordable railroads has it been in reach of the general public. Go tell the average Joe that he should be "celebrating the act of movement" on his daily commute and grocery runs and see how far that gets you, because chances are, Joe has never had an opportunity to "celebrate the act of movement".
 
Just to be contrary... let's look at it from the other perspective, at least as regards transportation and ownership thereof. For many people (far more than you'd suspect), a self-driving or "on-demand" car service isn't about "desiring irresponsibility and dependence" at all. To anyone who can't drive due to age or a medical condition (like my wife), a self-driving car represents a massive increase in independence; even something like Uber is incredibly helpful for getting anywhere outside of walking distance. To someone of limited income, Uber might be the only realistic way of getting to occasional destinations outside the range of public transportation or walking that doesn't incur massive (to them) capital and operational costs. It's a possible way around the Vimes's Boots situation.

Well said - my daughter is fiercely independent and has not been able to drive since 16. A little older than you Bob. Lives in SF marina district now for the very reasons stated. While us older group valued the auto for its freedom of movement and seeing the world, they discover the world in many other ways, and transportation becomes the means of realization. Heck, we did not know what was in the next county! We only learned to work/repair them because they broke a lot, it was necessary. Besides, there will always be tuners.

My daughter would have a new world of options with a self driving car. Living locations are opened 1000X. This applies to many others as well.

On revitalization: If small planes were as fool proofed as cars, and people could fly them without cheating death each time, perceptions would change. Who wants to rent a 1969 Nova with 300,000 miles from Enterprise? Isn't that what the 172 has become to new pilots? I would submit that is a one of the big reasons that 20k(est) kits have been sold by Vans. Better, faster, more economical, more utility, mostly new, and only twice the price of a new car. Now, if a reliable engine was not nearly half of that . . . .
 
I agree, my father has a P85D, has anyone here had the opportunity to floor one of these from a dead stop? I thought my 442 was fast. I cant wait until battery technology to get lighter.
 
So the story goes?

I have been fascinated by aviation since my earliest memory. My father flew B17?s in WWII and then flew Beech 18's as a corporate pilot for a while after the war. My mother made him give it up as he was away from home too much. He was still a part-time flight instructor when I was in high school and wanted to learn to fly. He and I rebuilt a 1946 Aeronca Chief 11AC. Dad said I had to pay for it on my own nickel. I bought the Aeronca with saved paper route money. I soloed with 8 hours in my logbook. We talked aviation at home as our second language. I had to sell the plane after a few years in order to pay for my college engineering degree.

After graduation in 1975 I got married, built a house, and yearned to fly again. In 1990 my father and I bought a 1946 Piper J-3 Cub which I owned until I traded it for a flying RV-12 two years ago - good trade. My father passed away in 2006 and I miss him dearly. My nephew inherited the flying bug and is an instrument rated pilot. He owns a Cessna Cardinal with 180HP w/ constant-speed prop. Nice machine. He flies backcountry in Oregon and all over the Pacific NW.

So for a while we had three generations flying in our family. I think flying is contagious. Everyone who has flown with me, and it has been hundreds, has totally enjoyed the experience. My wife is retired from NW Airlines. When we flew in the Cub she used to hang her feet out the door.

I retired three years ago and decided to trade up to a machine I could maintain and license myself. I bought a flying 12 with 48TT. The plane was registered in my home state so I didn?t have to pay sales tax. I attended a two-day school at KOSH last year and got my LSRM-A certification so now I can sign for my own condition inspections.

I hope to be flying Light Sport for a long time into the future and sharing my love of aviation. The RV-12 is an incredible airplane. I have triplet 8 year old granddaughters ? one is a dare devil, the second likes science, and the third is a Diva. I hope to fly all three starting this summer if their parents don?t object. Funny how folks view aviation ? I?ve got a sales job ahead of me. I remember sitting on a stack of pillows in the right seat of the C-182 when I was four years old. To say it left a lasting impression is putting it mildly.

Maybe a future pilot here?
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Just to be contrary... let's look at it from the other perspective, at least as regards transportation and ownership thereof. For many people (far more than you'd suspect), a self-driving or "on-demand" car service isn't about "desiring irresponsibility and dependence" at all. To anyone who can't drive due to age or a medical condition (like my wife), a self-driving car represents a massive increase in independence; even something like Uber is incredibly helpful for getting anywhere outside of walking distance.

<snip>

Hogwash.

Why is chemical propulsion a necessary component for someone to be inspired by the freedom of transportation, by any mode? Is a sailboat or a high-performance glider uninspiring or any less of a freedom?

And what's wrong with dreaming of electrically-powered transportation? An electric car or airplane may be silent, clean (no oil on the belly to clean off!), low maintenance, and "fueled" for pennies compared to a hydrocarbon-fueled vehicle. Yes, the technology is still maturing. Is that a reason to dismiss it?

<snip>

And finally, I think transportation has always been primarily about "a means to a destination". Merely being able to "celebrate the act of movement" and enjoy it for the experience has historically been a rich man's hobby. Only with the advent of the personal vehicle and affordable railroads has it been in reach of the general public.

Good thoughts, I think my point may be interpreted the wrong way though..

I'm NOT value judging any of the great tech coming online. Electric / hybrid is still "chemical" propulsion, albeit a different storage methodology. Uber and self-driving cars will be great. All of this is good.

What I am trying to say is that prior generations had a romance between man and machine. A physical machine. And a personal expression of this was transportation. We bought them, we worked on them, we made memories with them. That was the industrial age. And transportation was more often an event, whether it was Route 66 road trip, a train ride, a cruise, or a flight. Those are commodities now.

Building and flying are corner cases in society. We need to support them, and I can't think of a group more successful than the RV community- However more broadly, we're an industry that essentially has been doing things the same way for generations (O-360 anyone?), when we've had a major societal revolution (industrial to information). And it's different now.

You can't put hands on information- you don't "own" it. You license it. And that concept creeps into everything from shelter (condos vs houses), transportation, food (do farmers even "own" seed or JD tractors anymore), entertainment (netflix, iTunes), etc. So to "revitalize" all I'm saying is that we have to meet the next generation(s) where they are going to be, which is a very, very different place than where many of us came from. Clubs and shared ownership are a start, but it costs me >$100/hr to fly an airplane older than I am. That doesn't sell well.

This is not value judging any of the great tech, or any generation. Just an observation that things are very different.
 
What I am trying to say is that prior generations had a romance between man and machine. A physical machine. And a personal expression of this was transportation. We bought them, we worked on them, we made memories with them. That was the industrial age. And transportation was more often an event, whether it was Route 66 road trip, a train ride, a cruise, or a flight.

As someone captivated by Antoine De Saint Exupery's writing, I would have to agree heartily:)
 
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Here is my observation. OP seemed to be asking what separates us from the people who say they would love to build/buy a plane but feel they can't.

Building or buying and operating a plane is a substantial undertaking that sits at the center of a Venn diagram composed of desire, mechanical aptitude, money, and time. The more you have of one, the less you need of the others, but there is a minimal amount of each required.

For myself, like a few others on this thread, I have been blessed financially and had my flight instruction provided free of charge by the US Navy so being able to afford to build/fly was not a big hurdle. I also, (like many on this forum) have a background in engineering, so the act of building did not seem too intimidating. Time has been my issue. I am 16 years into an 8A quickbuild (yeah, real quick :confused:). If I had not enjoyed the build process as much as the anticipated flying, I am not sure I would make it.

I had a manager once who used to say that hiring someone is like jumping across a narrow canyon - a leap of faith. As the interviewee, it's your job to make that leap as short as possible.

To those of us that want to expand the EAB community beyond the people who would gravitate here anyway, we need to shorten that leap. The thoughts in this thread are great - just the knowledge that a bunch of more or less normal people have done it goes a long way.
 
Fascinating thread! My story is like many that I hear about. I have been working on my RV-7A for 10 years now. Much, much longer than I thought it would take, but who could have known how "life gets in the way"? There were 3 weddings in our family (one of them my own) along the way, and the 2008 financial disaster which hit me real hard, and the worst of all, the death of my son Paul. Then I lost my Dad about 3 years ago. My wife had a brain aneurysm and brain surgery, and I took care of her for nearly 2 years. Then we had an empty nest and a house to fix up and sell, downsizing and moving. Through it all, I kept plugging away, never losing sight of my dream. My wife has been absolutely tremendous in her support, even though we have had our occasional arguments about my "aluminum mistress". As long as I make sure she knows that she comes first, it's all okay.

I am self-employed and I have never in my life made a six-figure income. Most years, much less than half of that, in fact. I dreamed about building an RV for several years before even starting. I read a lot and looked at websites, like Dan Checkoway's. I was inspired by people like Bob Collins, and others. I fixed up my garage into a decent shop, started acquiring some tools, buying many of them used on eBay, etc. I also found a local builders group and joined the chapter, going to meetings and learning all I could. The most inspiring thing I learned was that these guys were no different than me! They weren't any smarter, many of them not any richer than me. They weren't better than me. They were just ahead of me. If they could do it, then I can, too.

I was determined to pay cash along the way and not go into debt for this airplane. So I would save, work extra and get a bonus to put toward the next kit. I'm very fortunate to live close to Vans, so I could drive down there and pick up my kits. No sales tax in Oregon. I saved money not having to pay shipping, I didn't even pay for a crate, just load all the parts into my vehicle. When it came time to look for an engine, I looked around for a used one that I might rebuild. If you look long enough, you'll find something. I came across an O-360 with only 219 hrs on it. It had been rebuilt after a prop strike, now zero time. It cost me about half of what a new engine goes for. My panel is being built item by item, as I get the cash together for each item. It has taken me a while, but it's nearly finished! I want the best and I'm willing to work and wait for it. Like many others, I've never had a new car in my life. We drive old ones. I don't spend money on clothes, my closet is full of stuff I've had for years. Our furniture and household stuff is old. We don't have TV service, or a big-screen to waste our time sitting in front of. I don't own a recliner or easy chair, it would be a waste of time sitting in it. But you know what? We don't care! Very soon we'll have a finished RV and will be traveling and enjoying our time like never before. Since we sold our house and had to move the RV out of the garage, I now find myself in a very nice hangar in a fantastic aviation community at Lenhardt's Airpark (7S9). I pinch myself every time I walk into the hangar. And my plane will be flying before much longer. I'm also in ground school, studying and preparing to earn my pilot's license. Yes, that's right. I chose to build the airplane first. Not a decision I regret in the slightest way.

One interesting side story worth mentioning. Before we sold our house and moved, we lived in the not-so-nice part of town in SE Portland. Surrounded by homeless people living on the streets and in old vehicles, run-down homes and places all around us. Streets that aren't even paved, full of chuck-holes. You know what I'm talking about. So when the weather was nice and I pulled my RV out into the driveway, it was quite a sensation. It didn't belong in this neighborhood. And I took advantage of the moment when kids would come around, and did all I could to inspire some dreams in them. I'd let them climb in and sit in the seat, make airplane noises, show them pictures and answer questions. And the neighbor kids across the street, they were always coming over. One day I took them to a young eagles event for their very first airplane rides. A day they'll never forget! The interest is out there for future generations, we just have to do what we can to help.
 
One interesting side story worth mentioning. Before we sold our house and moved, we lived in the not-so-nice part of town in SE Portland. Surrounded by homeless people living on the streets and in old vehicles, run-down homes and places all around us. Streets that aren't even paved, full of chuck-holes. You know what I'm talking about. So when the weather was nice and I pulled my RV out into the driveway, it was quite a sensation. It didn't belong in this neighborhood. And I took advantage of the moment when kids would come around, and did all I could to inspire some dreams in them. I'd let them climb in and sit in the seat, make airplane noises, show them pictures and answer questions. And the neighbor kids across the street, they were always coming over. One day I took them to a young eagles event for their very first airplane rides. A day they'll never forget! The interest is out there for future generations, we just have to do what we can to help.
Bruce,

That's friggin' awesome! I also try to inspire my neighborhood kids, so they learn that they can do hard things too. It sounds like the kids you inspired needed that even more than most. I think many people in your situation would have kept to themselves, for fear that "locals" would have destroyed their project. Kudos to you for sharing your dream with others. We all need inspiration. It's a basic, human need.
 
I always wanted to fly as a kid, but my (non-aviator) parents had a very modest income and I accepted that it was financially out of reach. "We can't afford it" was a phrase I grew OK with because I understood what it meant. They always provided everything we needed growing up, but they were and still are very good at running a "lean" operation. However, they did support my model aviation habit by helping with a radio or an expensive kit now and then for a birthday or Christmas. I did the dishes every night for a whole month to buy my first R/C kit, a Gentle Lady glider. Best of all, my dad took me to the EAA Convention in 1988, only a 2 hour drive from our house, and joined EAA so we could get on the flightline. Then I was forever hooked by reading in Sport Aviation every month about restorations and build projects that looked like "giant models." I thought I could build a Falco because it was wood. Yes. I had a great imagination. ;)

After college (paid for mostly with a huge scholarship from Academy of Model Aeronautics) I found a local grass strip with a wise old CFI who rented his Taylorcraft for $25/hour wet and charged $25/hour for himself. It was amazing-- Every week I scraped $50 cash out of my paycheck and saved it for a flying lesson. (this was in 2002-- so not that long ago!) I also joined the local flying club as a 25% owner in a Cherokee 140 to get my "radio work" done for the Private license. The group was a great bunch of guys and they let me pay for my share as I went. It was much cheaper than renting a plane at a flight school. Eventually I sold my share back to them. For my commercial/CFI/Multi certificates, I went to graduate school at a university with a Part 141 flight program and paid for it all with student loans. NOT recommended as a first-choice if you can help it-- I'll be paying those for a long time. But it did get the job done, and I got a Master's degree.

I met my husband in 2008 and he taught me how to build airplanes, and bought me a set of CX4 plans for my birthday one year. That got me started, but I guess I was a bit like Danica Patrick in that I didn't get far with the first level (she left ARCA for Cup racing really quick) before I sold the plans and tail and bought an RV-3 tail kit.

In 2011, the infamous tornado hit SNF and we got an opportunity to buy the salvaged remains of Tony Spicer's RV-3B from the insurance company. This is a cheap way to get airframe parts, avionics and engine! But you need to know what you're getting into. Hubby is an A&P and has repaired a lot of planes over the years so he was a big help determining what was savable and what wasn't. And here I am 6 years later, wiring up a panel and figuring out what dusty things I can sell next so I can buy a new cam kit for the engine.

And, older planes are pretty cheap, too. RV's are expensive-- Parts and pieces for an RV-8 if you buy everything from Van's is over $100K. How many aspiring aviators spend $30,000 on a vehicle without considering that they could have a TriPacer or Cessna 150 for $15,000 and drive a cheaper car? If all you want to do is fly, there are lots of ways to do it.

I guess my point is, opportunities to save or make money exist all over. You just need to look for them, and be prepared to take a leap when you find one. If you shut yourself down by saying "Someday... I can't afford it now" then you are likely to be blind to those opportunities. I think the best advice would be to join a local EAA chapter and get to know people in the hobby, and eventually those opportunities will show themselves.
 
One interesting side story worth mentioning. Before we sold our house and moved, we lived in the not-so-nice part of town in SE Portland. Surrounded by homeless people living on the streets and in old vehicles, run-down homes and places all around us. Streets that aren't even paved, full of chuck-holes. You know what I'm talking about. So when the weather was nice and I pulled my RV out into the driveway, it was quite a sensation. It didn't belong in this neighborhood. And I took advantage of the moment when kids would come around, and did all I could to inspire some dreams in them. I'd let them climb in and sit in the seat, make airplane noises, show them pictures and answer questions. And the neighbor kids across the street, they were always coming over. One day I took them to a young eagles event for their very first airplane rides. A day they'll never forget! The interest is out there for future generations, we just have to do what we can to help.

Yes, that is awesome!!! We just spent a week at SNF guarding against careless parents with kids wanting to step on wheel pants, hang on props, spill drinks on the leather seats, and climb everywhere. Half of me wants to invite them to sit in the cockpit, the other half just wants the planes to survive the week. :(
 
Hi All,

Great stories - very interesting and inspiring!

I'm nothing special finance-wise (middle-class/income guy) who always wanted to learn to fly.

Lucked out and got my dream job more that 20 years ago - editor at a major car magazine - but the high cost of SoCal living (particularly at our magazine's then home base of Newport Beach, CA) put a major damper on pursuing my private certificate, let alone acquiring an airplane. However, I lucked out as one of the magazine's photographers was a pilot (non-CFI), and he was kind enough to take me up with him on many occasions, even teaching me/letting me take the controls for flight basics such as takeoffs, stalls, entering the pattern, proper approaches, etc.

After 15 years at the magazine, went to work for a small automotive-focused PR firm started by one of my coworkers at the magazine; this was great, as it allowed me to move to the Southern U.S. from $$$ SoCal to become the PR agency's "East Coast Director" (there were all of 2 of us ;-) ). Fifteen years of savings and cheapness (when moving to Newport Beach to take the car magazine job, I lucked out further by paying well-below-market rent to rent a room in an oceanfront home owned by a retired NFL player who was hardly ever there most of the time!) allowed me to finally pursue my aviation dream.

A few years ago, I purchased partially-built RV-7 tail and wing kits from a guy in Greensboro, NC (a test pilot for HondaJet), along with a used 160-hp Lycoming 0-320 engine from a seller here on VAF. Around this time, I joined the EAA.

Cheapness in general, such as buying used Ford Focuses (Foci?) and driving them until 250,000 - 300,000 miles (I'm on my third one); no kids or wife; living well below ones means; "dining out" = a slice of pizza or a hot dog at the Costco snack bar; no credit card payments, no car payment and buying my small FL condo for cash in the depths of the Great Recession at 1/3 of its previous sale price are the only way I could pull off this whole aviation thing.

Unfortunately, the past 1-2 years have been income light (my work has gone from full-time employment to part-time projects here and there). This, along with a family member requiring financial support due to advancing Parkinson's Disease, will likely require me to soon do the once unthinkable - sell my beloved Vans RV-7 project :-( , along with my other neat toys, a custom 2008 Harley-Davidson Street Glide and bright-red 1966 Dodge Dart GT convertible. Oh well, such is life.

I really love the build process and the camaraderie from the wonderful fellow pilots/EAA members/VAF friends I've made along the journey. It may take some time, but I will eventually get back into this wonderful hobby - scratch that - way of life!
 
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Heck, we're already committed.

Need to be asking the folks currently outside the circle.

Hi all, first post here at VAF (long time lurker though). I would say I've got one foot in the circle, but am teetering back and forth! I apologize in advance for the long post, but here goes my story:

According to my mother, I've been an aviation nut since I was about 2 years old. Nobody else in my family has the slightest interest, so I'm not sure where it came from. I built models as a kid, got into RC in 1980, have been doing it off and on since.

I got my PPL and glider rating back in 2000, flew a bit and then started building a Sonex with a Jabiru 3300. Got it about 90% done, then started losing interest. I got disillusioned with the Sonex partly due to the financial situation at the time, and partly due to disagreements with the company. It's a long and ugly story, not going to rehash it now. Suffice it to say it left me with a bad taste every time I looked at the project. As luck would have it someone wanted to buy it at about the same time, so I sold it. Incidentally, it's flown, changed hands, and is for sale again (N260SX).

During this same time period, I lost my tech counselor in a crash, and another friend had a close call. I could tell this really worried my wife, so I decided to hang up the keys and say "it was fun, but I'll just fly RC". So, I quit flying full scale and got heavily back into RC. I even did RC-related podcasts for 7 years, and was pretty consumed.

Then my mother in law's health got bad, and my wife and I became her primary caregivers for her remaining years. Also during this time, my mother passed from cancer, so having the hobby to think about was a blessing, as anyone who's been in that kind of situation will understand.

After all the family matters settled out, my wife and I found ourselves with time on our hands. I was also getting burned out on RC (and podcasting), and really needed a break. So for a time, I wasn't doing anything aviation related. Then I realized that itch just had to be scratched so I bought plans for a Zenith 750 Cruzer and started scratch building. So far the rudder and fin are done and I've started skinning the horizontal stabilizer. I also got back into the cockpit, just renting of course.

Why a Cruzer and not an RV? I will freely admit that especially after recently getting my tailwheel endorsement in a Super Cub, I'm infatuated with centerline seating and taildraggers! In my fantasy "I won the lotto" world, I'd be building or flying a nice RV-8. But here in the real world, I chose the Cruzer because I figured it was more attainable financially, and is pretty much one of the simplest designs to scratch build. A few bucks for sheet metal, and I can tinker for weeks. Will I like it? I'm sure I will, I have yet to fly a plane I didn't like. Will that stop me from reading VAF and fantasizing about having an RV? Probably not. :cool:

Now I know it seems like I'm already in the circle and living the dream, but to be honest I'm once again getting disillusioned and feeling lost. I'll try to articulate why, even if I can't quite figure it out myself. :rolleyes:

First of all, in my area, there are simply no hangars to be found. I'm number 153 on the waiting list at one airport (25 miles away), number 84 at another (30 miles away), etc. Who knows if I will ever get to the top of a list, so that leaves me with no place to keep a plane, even if I somehow make it through building it. That's discouraging.

The next issue I discovered is that my garage is not deep enough to fit a completed fuselage in. I know I can build for a long time before that becomes an issue, but eventually it will become a problem. I haven't quite figured out what I'll do at that point. This too is discouraging.

And finally, there's the cost. No matter how I calculate it out, it seems like owning a plane (whether I build it or buy one) will consume the better part of $1500+ a month. I'm not poor, but I am 51 next month and trying to get to a point where I can retire in a few years, and not have to work till the day I die (like my parents). I just can't reconcile my selfish desire to fly, with the reality of it costing as much as buying a second house.

I guess I'm not really hoping you guys will have a magic solution, I'm really just here for camaraderie and to share my frustration with wanting to be "JustPlaneChris", but not really having a clear idea of how I can get there. :confused:
 
Wow, JustplaneChris, impressive motivation! Don't give up, keep working the problem, where' there's a will......
As you say, you've got some time before you outgrow your garage but some possibles are keep working on/switch to, some of the smaller subassemblies, rent a mini-storage or local (bigger) garage (craig's list?)
Are you connected with anyone at that local airport with the long waiting list?
Is there a local EAA chapter to affiliate/network with? How about a partnership for the build and/or a flying airplane close by? Put up a note on the bulletin board at the field. Good chance there's more than one airplane there that doesn't get flown enough; maybe work out a deal to use a corner of a hangar.
Again, where there's a will........

Doug
Seattle area, -4 , wings
 
Most of the stories here (great thread, BTW!) are about how we scraped together the money to either build, or learn to fly. Stories like BSwayze's are what really fascinate me, being able to not only build, but inspire another generation to do the same. Without inspiration, our kind of recreation will surely die.

There is another stopping block; time. There are so many out there who really could afford it, and would love to build their own plane, but just can't scrape up the necessary hours.

If you fall into that category, consider having a school group build your plane. We just sold an RV-12 to a gentleman from Alabama, and he obviously fell into that group--had the money, but not the time. He to wanted to help inspire another generation. Building in schools is going to explode in the next few years, at least if things go the way they look for our program. We expect dozens of starts soon, and an equal number of finished airplanes after that. These will be available at about the cost of a kit, and made to your spec.

I have been working on getting this to happen since 2010, when we began building Eagle's Nest One in Jennings County High School, North Vernon, Indiana. EN-1 has almost 600 trouble-free hours on it now, and is being used to train its 4th pilot! Now, with AviationNation, we have the direction and support to make this really happen, not just in cream-of-the-crop high schools, but in places like those mentioned by BSwayze. We anticipate this will be part of a full-blown new high school curriculum by this fall.

If you might be interested, and have a little time before you really have to have one, we would love to talk to you about building YOUR RV-12 in a high school near you. Give me a call. (812) seven oh won 5454.

Bob
 
I've been following this thread and it kinda' reminds me of an AA meeting. "Hi, I'm John and it took me 27 years to finish my plane."
 
Wow, JustplaneChris, impressive motivation! Don't give up, keep working the problem, where' there's a will......
Thanks Doug! Just coming on here and sharing my thoughts is helping me feel better about the madness. :)

I suppose the biggest decision I have to make is not whether to keep building (I'm rather addicted to having that project to look forward to working on), but rather what to keep building.

I've been telling my (patient and supportive) wife that "I reserve the right to change my mind", at least up until I've built something really big like wings. To date, I've probably only spent about $500 on materials for the Cruzer, so I wouldn't feel bad about moving on to something else. As I mentioned before, even though I've never even sat in one, I daydream of flying an RV-8. My hours in that Super Cub really made me like centerline flying, even though my wife isn't totally thrilled about staring at the back of my head. :)

I have some reservations about the solid riveting, having only ever done solids on the Sonex spar (and those were set with a hammer and anvil method). I'm sure I could learn, I suppose I should find a local RV builder and offer to help set some rivets!

Anyway, this has indeed been a great thread. Lots to think about.
 
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