Cockpit Interior Convention

All,

I'm in the middle of designing the interior for my RV-10 and I've pretty much decided on a black panel with british tan/black seats and british tan side panels and accents.

One thing I thought would be great is using black headliner for the interior, sort of like a sports car.

I've noticed that not many people use black headliner, although it does exist from manufacturers. Is there any sort of reason for that?

As I live in AZ and have black vehicles with black leather interiors, I can honestly tell you that the old "black attracts heat" adage is simply a myth. Studies have shown that black holds heat almost identically as colors and in reality, its the greenhouse effect which makes a car super hot. That's why tint is the #1 way to keep a car cool here.

With that being said, does black make a plane interior seem smaller? is it out of convention that black isn't used? Is it distracting?

Thanks!

jstock773 said:

All,
ck leather interiors, I can honestly tell you that the old "black attracts heat" adage is simply a myth. Studies have shown that black holds heat almost identically as colors and in reality, its the greenhouse effect which makes a car super hot.

Thanks!

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Not exactly correct. If you are talking about a black vs white headliner, that probably makes little difference, because the sun does not directly shine on it. But if the sunlight can directly strike the seat, a white seat will reflect some of it right back out, but a black seat will absorb it all. OTOH, if you keep good sunscreens over all the windows, then, again, it probably makes little difference what color the seats are, because any reflected energy is trapped inside anyway.
I think most people just think all black makes the plane look dark inside. Also, black does show dirt more readily than grays/browns.

jstock773 said:

I can honestly tell you that the old "black attracts heat" adage is simply a myth. Studies have shown that black holds heat almost identically as colors and in reality, its the greenhouse effect which makes a car super hot. That's why tint is the #1 way to keep a car cool here.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

This may be true for interior colors protected by UV blocking windows, but is absolutely incorrect for anything in direct sunlight. A black colored panel will become at least 20 degrees hotter (often much hotter) than a white panel in direct sunlight. It is NOT a myth. Very simple to prove on your porch. This is why people in the southwest can heat their water by passing it through black pipes on their roof.

To be clear, color should have no impact on heat "retention" only heat absorption via UV rays.

You need to understand the greenhouse effect better. With two sealed glass containers in direct sunlight, the one with the white painted bottom will have a cooler internal air temp than the one with a black colored bottom. Its true that the sealed glass container "retains" the heat generated by the UV rays, by retaining the air that is transfered the heat from the receiving object. But the heat is generated by UV rays passing through the glass and being absorbed by a colored object in the greenhouse and the rule above applies. UV rays don't really produce heat in the air. It is the object receiving those rays that gets heated by them. That heat is then transferred to the air surrounding the colored object. A white object will reflect a good portion of the UVs away and therefore absorb less of the UV's energy (i.e.heat). A black object reflects very litte of the UV.

You experience this every time you fly in the summer. Most convective turbulence is due to the varying amount of UV energy absorbed by the ground, based upon it's color. Black dirt or asphalt gets much hotter than green grass, etc. This creates varying levels of lift energy in the air absorbing that heat from the ground. I suspect glider pilots are very tuned into this.

Tinting works because it blocks the UV rays.

Larry

to OP's question

prior posts = conventional wisdom for lighter colors, but: To your actual question, consider that headliners are a pain to clean often, and dust will show on black more than tan. Also look at old Cessnas -- and see the staining on the light colors. Browns that match or compliment the color of your dirt work well, IMHO....
Vinyls will stand up to staining better, but wool will let you fit the headliner better, 'cuz you can wet-stretch it. I now decline all 'opportunities' to install vinyl in the Cessnas and Pipers -- life is too short to put up with that misery.
Now - go put in the color you want - your airplane.

lr172 said:

I suspect glider pilots are very tuned into this.

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To the point of mania.

Tim

lr172 said:

To be clear, color should have no impact on heat "retention" only heat absorption via UV rays.
....
Tinting works because it blocks the UV rays.

Larry

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Actually, IR provides the heating effect, UV damages your skin and fades colors.

Another factor is thermal mass. Black cloth seats in a convertible are not much of an issue, but black leather will get your attention as will black metal.

fl-mike said:

Actually, IR provides the heating effect, UV damages your skin and fades colors.

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Allow me to nerd it up a bit, if I may...

All radiation(energy) is converted to heat when absorbed, regardless of where it is on the EM spectrum. IR, visible light, UV, microwaves, etc. If you were to completely block all IR from hitting an object it would still be heated by the rest of the spectrum, just not as much. The sunlight that reaches us is roughly 50% IR, 42% visible, and 8% UV, on an energy basis. How much of that EM energy gets converted to heat energy depends on the absorption spectra for the object it hits. If you had two objects with identical IR/UV absorption, one a perfectly ideal white the other a perfectly ideal black, if the black one measured 100 deg in the sun, the white would measure 58 deg, all else being equal.

fl-mike said:

Another factor is thermal mass. Black cloth seats in a convertible are not much of an issue, but black leather will get your attention as will black metal.

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Thermal mass doesn't affect how hot something feels. It is one factor that affects how long an object will feel hot after you start sucking heat out of it with your hand or butt. How hot something feels is controlled by it's temperature and it's thermal conductivity.

BobbyLucas said:

Allow me to nerd it up a bit, if I may...

All radiation(energy) is converted to heat when absorbed, regardless of where it is on the EM spectrum. IR, visible light, UV, microwaves, etc. If you were to completely block all IR from hitting an object it would still be heated by the rest of the spectrum, just not as much. The sunlight that reaches us is roughly 50% IR, 42% visible, and 8% UV, on an energy basis. How much of that EM energy gets converted to heat energy depends on the absorption spectra for the object it hits. If you had two objects with identical IR/UV absorption, one a perfectly ideal white the other a perfectly ideal black, if the black one measured 100 deg in the sun, the white would measure 58 deg, all else being equal.



Thermal mass doesn't affect how hot something feels. It is one factor that affects how long an object will feel hot after you start sucking heat out of it with your hand or butt. How hot something feels is controlled by it's temperature and it's thermal conductivity.

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Can't speak for others, but I personally appreciated the nerded up details.

Larry

BobbyLucas said:

Allow me to nerd it up a bit, if I may...

All radiation(energy) is converted to heat when absorbed,

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Agree with the nerdness. Just from an "ouch, that seat is hot" perspective, the low thermal mass cloth version will be hardly noticeable, and as you noted, the amount of UV reaching the earth (seat) is much less than the IR.

fl-mike said:

Agree with the nerdness. Just from an "ouch, that seat is hot" perspective, the low thermal mass cloth version will be hardly noticeable, and as you noted, the amount of UV reaching the earth (seat) is much less than the IR.

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I think you missed the second part of my response. It's the temperature and thermal conductivity that determine how hot something feels. The thermal mass just determines how long it will stay that way. For two objects at the same temperature, one with low thermal mass and high thermal conductivity will feel hotter for shorter, while one with high thermal mass and low thermal conductivity will feel less hot but for a longer period of time.

Thanks for the nerd appreciation guys.