vernon smith
Well Known Member
Duly noted and edited, we don't want to incur the wrath of the Administrator. [ed. Grin. v/r,dr]
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Van's Air Force
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photobucket hosting
- Thread starter Blain
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Blain
Well Known Member
Mine are gone
Photobucket didn't wait until December. My images have been replaced by "Update your account for 3rd party hosting"
Just thinking about the time that just went down the drain. Uploading, editing, wading through pop-ups to get image link.
Such a disappointment.
Photobucket didn't wait until December. My images have been replaced by "Update your account for 3rd party hosting"
Just thinking about the time that just went down the drain. Uploading, editing, wading through pop-ups to get image link.
Such a disappointment.
Saville
Well Known Member
This is the reason I entirely left them this week - even before my pictures disappeared. They tried to get money from me by making working on their web pages a total pain. Endless, rapidly appearing popups and THEN saying I can get rid of them if I only pay them money.
No way. I don't mind a few pop-ups and I understand the idea of making a buck. But for the last few months the photobucket experience has been horrible and it was done purposefully.
When that sort of thing happens I vote with my "feet" immediately.
Bluelabel
Well Known Member
Mine Disappeared
I just went through a few posts and fixed the images. I had been using tinypic.com, but switched to Photobucket because uploading in bulk was easier. Then Photobucket started being very difficult and slow... So, now, back to tinypic, or one of the other fine hosting sites...
I guess I'll have to go back and one by one to find posts I put photos in and fix them... What a PAIN!!
I just went through a few posts and fixed the images. I had been using tinypic.com, but switched to Photobucket because uploading in bulk was easier. Then Photobucket started being very difficult and slow... So, now, back to tinypic, or one of the other fine hosting sites...
I guess I'll have to go back and one by one to find posts I put photos in and fix them... What a PAIN!!
BrianDC
Well Known Member
There is no "perfect" solution
Like anything with the internet, the "here today gone tomorrow" attitude is always something that needs to be considered. There are plenty of people that were self-hosting images in older message threads. Heck, I even picked up a domain name of a previous VAF member (didn't realize this till I started to see a bunch of referral traffic from their old posts. Sorry!).
Free image hosting is not permanent and could go away at any time (thanks Photobucket) making it impossible to follow some of the older threads here. I honestly don't blame Photobucket, but wish the did handle it better. (even if they prevented 3rd party hosting, they could have made it so we could still access the original image by going to their ad-driven site.)
Google, Halie, TinyPic, etc are all great solutions (for now), but who knows if those will go away at some point.
I'm learning that if I find a good post that I think is important, I'm downloading those images (or printing the page to PDF for later review). It sucks, but not sure what else can be done. I highly doubt that DeltaRomeo can afford to host photos locally unless we collectively start to increase our donations.
Like anything with the internet, the "here today gone tomorrow" attitude is always something that needs to be considered. There are plenty of people that were self-hosting images in older message threads. Heck, I even picked up a domain name of a previous VAF member (didn't realize this till I started to see a bunch of referral traffic from their old posts. Sorry!).
Free image hosting is not permanent and could go away at any time (thanks Photobucket) making it impossible to follow some of the older threads here. I honestly don't blame Photobucket, but wish the did handle it better. (even if they prevented 3rd party hosting, they could have made it so we could still access the original image by going to their ad-driven site.)
Google, Halie, TinyPic, etc are all great solutions (for now), but who knows if those will go away at some point.
I'm learning that if I find a good post that I think is important, I'm downloading those images (or printing the page to PDF for later review). It sucks, but not sure what else can be done. I highly doubt that DeltaRomeo can afford to host photos locally unless we collectively start to increase our donations.
1flyingyogi
Well Known Member
I agree! I wouldn't mind paying to be able to post photos without hassles.
Not to be too fatalistic about it - but DR hosting the photos has the same problems associated with the others - if he steps out in front of a bus tomorrow and the site goes away, so do the photos on his hosted site.
I don't see any easy answer here besides grabbing and keeping our own copies when we see something good, or using a pay-site like smug-mug.
I don't see any easy answer here besides grabbing and keeping our own copies when we see something good, or using a pay-site like smug-mug.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that builders may not know they need the information until they need it.
A post from 3 years ago, for example, solves a problem I have today. Never looked for the issue until today and the pics are gone for whatever reason so the knowledge is incomplete and sometimes even useless without the pics, which has happened to me on numerous occasions.
Hence the reason to host the pics with the database, a forever archive of builder knowlege.
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Saville
Well Known Member
A photo repository NOT run by DR?
There are software types on this forum. What if someone else built a web server dedicated only to VAF, and charged for it's use as it's suggested DR charge.
There are a few advantages:
1) The number of hits on a VAF-only web server is far less than a general server like photobucket.
2) DR doesn't have to be involved.
3) More than one VAFer can have server privileges.
4) File requirements are fairly low - it's just VAF photos. So large disk farms aren't necessary.
5) Backups are very simple
Drawbacks:
At least one - maybe more:
1) pressure on that person's home internet connection will increase.
Another option is to set up a VAF-only Yahoo web server - you can get basic service for $4.00 a month. Not sure if that level of service and storage is enough, but there's another level up for just a few dollars more.
Just some thoughts.
There are software types on this forum. What if someone else built a web server dedicated only to VAF, and charged for it's use as it's suggested DR charge.
There are a few advantages:
1) The number of hits on a VAF-only web server is far less than a general server like photobucket.
2) DR doesn't have to be involved.
3) More than one VAFer can have server privileges.
4) File requirements are fairly low - it's just VAF photos. So large disk farms aren't necessary.
5) Backups are very simple
Drawbacks:
At least one - maybe more:
1) pressure on that person's home internet connection will increase.
Another option is to set up a VAF-only Yahoo web server - you can get basic service for $4.00 a month. Not sure if that level of service and storage is enough, but there's another level up for just a few dollars more.
Just some thoughts.
vernon smith
Well Known Member
While installing the capabilities to host photos on the web site server how much more effort would be needed to install photo auto sizing software, like used by eBay, Craig's List and the like?
vernon smith
Well Known Member
It's trivial to have the image resized automatically by the forum when uploaded, the user doesn't need to be involved or have any idea how to resize an image.
My point about picture size is that it's not an issue like it used to be, resizing is probably not even necessary if a forum was taking advantage of modern cloud based hosting services. The economics of storage have changed a lot in the last 5 years, videos are the problem, images not so much.
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Saville
Well Known Member
Not sure what you are getting at here:
There is a vast difference between a company like PB making a change that screws things up vs a VAFer or two managing a database.
Preservarion of the knowledge is there because it's VAFers running it not some faceless 3rd party.
Even if DR put the db on the Forum servers it can still disappear if he decides he's sick of managing it.
Keeping the images with the forum to preserve the knowledge, not images linked all over the internet to services that may or may not exist tomorrow, whereas when they disappear the forum knowledge becomes fractured.
In the case where Doug loses interest there is an opportunity for someone else to take the reins, database, images, and all.
Saville
Well Known Member
In the case where a VAFer or two is maintaining the photo db loses interest in the image server, there is an opportunity for someone else to take the reins.
In the age of the Internet physical proximity is no longer an issue. It's a personnel issue whether the image db is in DR's place or anywhere else.
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Done! $10/month. Who wants to sign up? Doug, set us up a DNS alias pointing img.vansairforce.com to vaf.halie.com. I'll spin-off a service, will take me 20 minutes. Payments via PayPal. I'll even use the VAF logo. But this doesn't really solve the problem .. I bet there won't be 20 people interested in paying for a VAF affiliated photo site, not while there are free options out there.
The forum software provides a convenient image upload facility while you are posting your message, eliminates the extra step of using a hosting site. Having it together is still a better solution.
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I'll add that while folks would be willing to pay monthly to post on VAF while they build, especially if it's a preserved archive of knowledge that included pics, there's not going to be much of market for them to pay someone else while there are plenty of free sites out there to get them an image hosted to get that answer they need.
The benefit comes 3 years later when somebody else has a similar question.
The site is already invaluable and it's free sans donations.
My original idea was free to view, pay to post and possible view images.
Unfortunately, I don't think Doug wants us debating this and I'm probably overstepping my welcome so I'm going to shutup about it now.
The benefit comes 3 years later when somebody else has a similar question.
The site is already invaluable and it's free sans donations.
My original idea was free to view, pay to post and possible view images.
Unfortunately, I don't think Doug wants us debating this and I'm probably overstepping my welcome so I'm going to shutup about it now.
Saville
Well Known Member
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I'm not contradicting myself at all and have been saying the same thing all along, I have never changed my position. This debate has happened many times outside of this particular thread.
Today VAF is worth a monthly subscription because it caters to a captive audience of active builders, a wealth of information.
The value goes up over time considerably if the knowledge is not fractured due to missing images. In most cases what worked 3 years ago will likely still work today.
The only way to protect that value and guarantee the knowledge is not fractured and the images stay with the forum is for the forum to host its own images and not rely on links to other sites that the forum cannot control.
While most won't pay a monthly subscription to a site to host their images (because there are so many free sites that will do it) those same people will pay a monthly fee to see those images were hosted on the forum, especially if they can't see the images without a subscription or donation.
When people create a post with an image it's to get an answer to their problem at that point in time. The value is overtime most of us would like to avoid the same mistakes so when we start researching it would be valuable if those pics were still there. The original poster no longer cares, their problem is solved, so there's no motivation for them to be concerned about the long-term nature of their contribution and thus there is no reason for them to pay someone to host the image for all-time. Therefore, the only party that cares is the one who can monetize the information, the forum.
Today VAF is worth a monthly subscription because it caters to a captive audience of active builders, a wealth of information.
The value goes up over time considerably if the knowledge is not fractured due to missing images. In most cases what worked 3 years ago will likely still work today.
The only way to protect that value and guarantee the knowledge is not fractured and the images stay with the forum is for the forum to host its own images and not rely on links to other sites that the forum cannot control.
While most won't pay a monthly subscription to a site to host their images (because there are so many free sites that will do it) those same people will pay a monthly fee to see those images were hosted on the forum, especially if they can't see the images without a subscription or donation.
When people create a post with an image it's to get an answer to their problem at that point in time. The value is overtime most of us would like to avoid the same mistakes so when we start researching it would be valuable if those pics were still there. The original poster no longer cares, their problem is solved, so there's no motivation for them to be concerned about the long-term nature of their contribution and thus there is no reason for them to pay someone to host the image for all-time. Therefore, the only party that cares is the one who can monetize the information, the forum.
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vernon smith
Well Known Member
Since DR has been very explicit about his lack of interest in hosting pictures a discussion of a work around is appropriate to my way of thinking. Since I just started a build the forum AND THE PICTURES are very important to me. I feel the forum will lose much of it's value to everyone if a way cannot be found to fix this issue.
Saville
Well Known Member
1. That is not the only way
2. Since DR has no interest in doing this, it is irrelevant to consider it and therefore,
3. I'm suggesting another possibility (and essentially sounding out interest in the idea). And lastly....
4. I think if the image database was VAF-only there might be more interest in people paying as opposed to paying some faceless site.
vernon smith
Well Known Member
I would think the party with the largest stake in the forum would be interested in a solution, namely Van's Aircraft Co. They have plenty of resources to make the forum a permanent part of the company while retaining the current administrator. They could host the forum and the pictures on a server in their complex with a cloud backup. Compared to the costs associated with the CNC equipment in their shop it's peanuts.
This issue has been kicking around the forum for over a month and I'm surprised they have not come forward with some interest.
This issue has been kicking around the forum for over a month and I'm surprised they have not come forward with some interest.
Sigh....
PPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE go read this and respect my wishes regarding image hosting:
http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/ImagesInForums/images.htm
I'm closing this thread now and am asking the moderators to delete future threads in the vein of 'Doug should host our pictures' or similar.
If you feel compelled to host the pictures for 25,000 people FOR FREE AND FOREVER WITH NO INTERACTION WHATSOEVER REQUIRED, please build that site and send me the URL - I'll gratefully promote it for you!!! Don't forget to plan for the fact that in ten years the average image file size will be ten times the size it is today, because that is what has happened over the past decade.
Google 'Video Wall'. It's coming.
There is a line on the posting rules page at http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm that talks about posts complaining how the site is run. That should be an email to me, not a public debate.
PPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE honor the posting rules.
Please.
v/r,
dr
PS: Please
PPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE go read this and respect my wishes regarding image hosting:
http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/ImagesInForums/images.htm
I'm closing this thread now and am asking the moderators to delete future threads in the vein of 'Doug should host our pictures' or similar.
If you feel compelled to host the pictures for 25,000 people FOR FREE AND FOREVER WITH NO INTERACTION WHATSOEVER REQUIRED, please build that site and send me the URL - I'll gratefully promote it for you!!! Don't forget to plan for the fact that in ten years the average image file size will be ten times the size it is today, because that is what has happened over the past decade.
Google 'Video Wall'. It's coming.
PPPPLLLLLEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE honor the posting rules.
Please.
v/r,
dr
PS: Please
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