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  #21  
Old 08-27-2015, 06:10 PM
vluvelin vluvelin is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Montreal
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Default How about Temperature?

2) how does it perform when installed FFWD where temperature exceeding 140F ???
How higher temperatures affect performance
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  #22  
Old 08-27-2015, 06:33 PM
jclark jclark is offline
 
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Location: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vluvelin View Post
2) how does it perform when installed FFWD where temperature exceeding 140F ???
How higher temperatures affect performance
I worked with Widget over a year ago to install TWO units (primary and "backup" or "AUX") on his RV8 firewall (engine side).

We instrumented them with a temperature probe and monitored the temps.
We set thresholds so he would have a warning if there was a HIGH TEMP.

All has worked JUST FINE over the year. NO problems. I don't have the actual temperatures handy but I am sure that Widget can dig some up from his logs at some point.

I have obtained from EarthX one ETX900, one ETX680 and two EXT18B's.
The ETX900 will be tested on a slightly higher compression engine.
The ETX680 will be tested on a stock O-360 engine.
The EXT18B's will be used as AUX batteries.
- Protecting EFIS'es on cranking and
- Backup to the backup if rest of electrical system goes dead

I will be doing further testing in an RV6 and an RV8. Both have multiple EFIS screens (3 GRT based units each ... )
- 1 HXR + 2 MINIs
- 3 SX's

and an "auxiliary" bus of sorts.

The goal is to get data that can be shared regarding real drain time in real installations, along with *case* temperature data.

The installation has NOT begun yet as I still need to get some a software update for the instrumentation and I am making other mods on one of the planes.

The battery "boxes" are custom on the RV6 and the standard *BIG TRAY* on the RV8 so I should have little mounting problems.

I do have the Odyssey steel box and the units don't fit well in that. I was able to force one in but had a bit of concern about getting it out. Kathy is aware of this and has discussed the limitations that they had.

The EarthX battery box/tray is very lightweight. The only suggestion that I have made so far on that is to extend the length of the "ears" and potentially "pre-drill" mounting holes that would be consistent with the angle that is used on the Van's (Odyssey) boxes.

Stay tuned .....

James
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  #23  
Old 08-27-2015, 07:18 PM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Location: Dahlonega, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post
I worked with Widget over a year ago to install TWO units (primary and "backup" or "AUX") on his RV8 firewall (engine side).

We instrumented them with a temperature probe and monitored the temps.
We set thresholds so he would have a warning if there was a HIGH TEMP.

All has worked JUST FINE over the year. NO problems. I don't have the actual temperatures handy but I am sure that Widget can dig some up from his logs at some point.

Stay tuned .....

James
I mounted a temp bulb between my two EarthX batteries and wired it into my GRT EIS using the coolant temp circuit. My batteries are on the firewall on the right sde of the engne compartment.

I have never seen the temp between the batteries higher than 134 degrees F. and that is including during shows on very hot summer days. At altitude cruising along I see temps of about 100 degrees F. And with OAT's in the 50’s it's usually about 85 between the batteries.

I am using 36d for my backup, or STBY battery to power ignitions, GRT HXr and dual Mini's. Also, I have my Comm panel, a Garmin GTR200 Comm, GRT GPS and autopilot.

I have left the STBY battery on powering the above equipment for 2 hours and still showed a voltage of 13.1.

Needless to say, if I lose an alternator or the main Batt, i definitely will not be in the air for two hours.

Not a scientific test, but I'm comfortable with my numbers.
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  #24  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:14 PM
vluvelin vluvelin is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 166
Default Ok so far only positive comments!!!

Any one with negative?????
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  #25  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:15 PM
vluvelin vluvelin is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 166
Default Backup battery on RV7

where are you guys install it
and pictures?

Thank you
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  #26  
Old 08-28-2015, 01:31 PM
jclark jclark is offline
 
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Location: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vluvelin View Post
Any one with negative?????
They are rather expensive as compared to a much cheaper battery that you may find at the local battery store.

If you have a "nose light" RV like my RV6 then the lack of weight may not be desirable.

When the voltage falls below a certain threshold the battery management system shuts it off. So it MIGHT be possible for an Earth battery with the SAME capacity as a PC680 to turn off your EFIS sooner than a traditional battery. For example if your EFIS works down to 10 volts and the EarthX turns off sooner you MAY have given up a few minutes of run time.

I spoke with Kathy about this this morning and this one of the items I plan to get empirical data about.

DISCLOSURE; EarthX supplied me with the batteries I mentioned for testing. I am free to speak the good , the bad, and the ugly as I see fit. I will though validate any findings with them. The batteries we put in Widget's plane were BOTH PURCHASED by Widget.

James
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  #27  
Old 08-28-2015, 03:57 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 776
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We installed a EarthX 680 in a RV6 today. As I mentioned in another thread we had to modify the battery box because the EarthX was about 3/16 of a inch wider. There was a second small install glitch as the battery posts have less clearance from the raised top then a Pc680. This required grinding one side of the battery cable ring eyes down about ⅛ of a inch. Ours were big so perhaps a non issue for most.
We have a 360 with a lightweight prop and 10 to 1 Pistons. It spun the engine noticeably quicker then the PC680. We also did a avionics update taking about one hour on the battery. There was no detectably difference on start after the update. We did kill unneeded avionics during the update. There is one noticeable difference from a conventional battery. After start the battery can take up to a 60 amp charge rate. We are seeing 58 to 63 amps after start. This lasts for less then two minutes and amps drop to the normal range. EarthX says this is normal since the battery can intake a lot of amps fast. If you have less then a 60 amp breaker on the alternator this could be a problem. We have a 70.
George
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  #28  
Old 08-28-2015, 04:20 PM
jclark jclark is offline
 
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Location: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post

<<STUFF DELETED>>

There is one noticeable difference from a conventional battery. After start the battery can take up to a 60 amp charge rate. We are seeing 58 to 63 amps after start. This lasts for less then two minutes and amps drop to the normal range. EarthX says this is normal since the battery can intake a lot of amps fast. If you have less then a 60 amp breaker on the alternator this could be a problem. We have a 70.
George
I have seen my PC680 take between 55 and 60 amps for a short while as well.
This is after I had used it for quite a while doing something with the avionics and had just enough juice left to crank the engine.

So ditto on making the fuse/breaker/whatever some amount greater (say 20%) than the alternator is capable of delivering.

James
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2015, 01:12 PM
Plevyakh Plevyakh is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 7
Default EarthX battery Fault monitoring and how to wire into GRT EFIS HX?

Guys,
Can you share how you wired in the EarthX (ETX680) battery fault monitor into your Grand Rapids Technology EFIS? I have the HX displays.

How did you wire this in and and how did you configure it in the Setup Menu software?

Per the ETX Manual:
Fault Monitoring Installation (ETX Hundred Series)
The ETX Hundred Series batteries have a discrete output that can be connected to many aircraft Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS) electronics or to a remote mounted LED. The diagrams below detail the required connections for both type installations. The discrete output for external fault monitoring is a single wire with 1⁄4” quick connect terminal. The 1⁄4” quick connect terminal is an insulated “female” type and should be compatible with most other manufacturers insulated male 1⁄4” quick connect terminals. The discrete output can be used with an independent DC source or your ETX’s battery voltage from 5-15VDC. If an independent DC source is used (i.e. from EFIS), the DC source negative must be referenced to the battery negative.
To test the internal LED and or external LED, touch the fault monitoring wire to battery negative.

--------

Thanks,
Howard
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2015, 03:50 PM
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Weasel Weasel is offline
 
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Location: Brooksville, MS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vluvelin View Post
2) how does it perform when installed FFWD where temperature exceeding 140F ???
How higher temperatures affect performance
I asked Kathy.

She said it was ok to post it here.

Subject
Battery Temperature
Enquiry
I have been following the lithium battery developments for a long time and am interested in using one for my Experimental airplane.

There are several pictures floating around showing that one of your batteries is interchangeable with an odyssey PC680 battery which is typically mounted on the engine side of the firewall on may experimental airplanes including my own.

Your specifications show that the maximum operating temperature is 140 deg F.

I am quite certain that in many of these installations including my own, the actual temperature at the battery exceeds this temperature on a really hot day after the engine is shut down and there is no cooling air flowing through the engine bay.





Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form

Dear Joel,

Thank you for the question. The operating temperature for a lead acid is 113 degrees Fahrenheit and the ETX680 is 140 degrees Fahrenheit but this is an operating temperature, do not attempt to charge the battery above this temperature. The storage temperature is 158 degree Fahreheit.

We do have a manual online that addresses these questions as well for your review.
http://earthxmotorsports.com/wp-cont...l_111017_K.pdf


Please let me know if you have further questions.


Sincerely,
Kathy Nicoson
EarthX Lithium Batteries


Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form

Dear Kathy,

Thank you for the response! I have read the manual several times and I feel my question is still not answered unless I understand something wrong.

Maybe I should be educated on the definition of operating and charging?

Can we consider the following example?

The battery is installed in a location that gets above 140 deg F during operation. I understand that to be considered storage. However, in the same location installed on an airplane a pilot may opt to land for 10 minutes, fill the tanks with fuel, then start the engine. Let’s assume he doesn’t know how to get the fuel/air mixture correct on the first and second start attempts and finally after desperation gets his engine started but he used 70% of his battery charge in the process.

Now we have a battery installed in a location that is over 140 deg F due to the engine just being shut down from the previous operation AND the battery will automatically be making the alternator charge it. Would this not be considered CHARGING or do we still call this operating?

Please enlighten my weak mind.

Thanks Joel


Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form

Dear Joel,

I had one of our engineers look this over and this is what he said:

“Operation” would be charging or discharging (current in or current out).

The main point is our battery should not be used in applications where the “battery” temperature is over 140 deg F during charging or discharging. In your example below, would the battery temp (more specifically the cells inside the battery case) actually exceed 140 deg F in 10 minute … most likely not. Are brief periods of time above 140 deg F ok …. Sure, for 10-15 minutes.

But if you have measured your engine compartment and it exceeds 140 deg F for long periods of time, then it can’t be used in the engine compartment.”


Let us know if you need any further questions.


Sincerely,
Kathy Nicoson
EarthX Lithium Batteries
Global Sales Director



Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form

Thanks Kathy!

Good information! Care if I share it on the Vans Airforce forum?


Subject: RE: New submission from Contact Form

Hi Joel,

Thank you for asking and of course you can. I already know I am going to receive a ton of responses asking more questions about this, which is fine, but the lead acid battery, which pilots have been using for decades, have a high temperature reading of only 113 deg F compared to the EarthX at 140 deg F just as a side note. The response from a lead acid company would have that if you measure your engine compartment above 113 def F, do not use it there.

It is a bit more complex in that it is the temperature of the inside of the battery or the cells in reality that should not exceed the 113 deg of a lead acid battery and 140 deg of a lithium battery. Much harder to measure. We have had a few fly with temperature monitors on the batteries and we have not had a report back of temperatures actually reaching this temperature but I am sure there are people who can.


Sincerely,
Kathy Nicoson
EarthX Lithium Batteries
Global Sales Director



Many don’t realize that the lead acid battery is only rated to 113 deg F as this information isn’t easily available whereas we post it. The temperature ratings are far better with a lithium battery than a lead acid, as the chemistry is very different so it is great to ask and post the questions.

Have a fantastic Friday!


Sincerely,
Kathy Nicoson
EarthX Lithium Batteries
Global Sales Director
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