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Safety ideas [long]

Buggsy2

Well Known Member
This thread about a ballistic parachute for RVs got me thinking about the many ways we can add extra safety features to our Experimental aircraft. I'm starting this thread to get more ideas...maybe Paul Dye could expand this to a Kitplanes article?

  • Vans A-model fixes. Anti-Splat Aero has several fixes to reduce the likelihood of the nose gear digging in, causing a tip over.
    • Pros: Not hard to install or retrofit. Some testing has been done with some of the fixes.
    • Cons: Several $100s for all fixes. Anecdotal field experience suggests they help but it's far from certain.
  • Firewall heat resistance. This thread examined different methods of improving the firewall's resistance to heat. I choose the intumescent paint, figuring it would provide a bit of safety and wasn't hard to do or work with subsequently.
    • Pros: most methods are relatively cheap and not difficult to do before the engine is mounted, and will provide a few extra minutes of time to land in case of engine fire. No moving parts to fail.
    • Cons: fairly awkward to perform on a finished airplane.
  • Replace aluminum heater control box with stainless steel one. Vans supplies an aluminum heater control box which mounts on the engine side of the firewall. This would presumably fail quickly in an engine fire. Aircraft Spruce sells an identical unit made from stainless steel.
    • Pros: corrects an obvious weak point in fire protection for little money and no extra effort while building.
    • Cons: None to speak of.
  • Fire suppression system. Available from Safecraft, and a thread here, these systems offer a chance to put out the dreaded engine fire.
    • Pros: available under $500, probably not very difficult to add to finished airplane.
    • Cons: cost/benefit may not be as effective as other measures for what is statistically a rare event. Adds weight.
  • Air bag seat belts. Amsafe sells these, they are like car air bags but mounted in the seatbelt strap.
    • Pros: like in cars, protect the head and upper body in a collision and can save lives. Perhaps not difficult to retrofit to flying aircraft.
    • Cons: expensive (about $1500). They are not available for E/AB aircraft. There is a bicycling airbag helmet that looks interesting but is probably not useful for GA.
  • Aircraft detection. Our Mark I eyeballs are far from perfect seeing other aircraft. Flight Following can help on cross countries, but what about local flying? Devices seem to fall into two categories: detecting other planes' transponders directly (e.g. Zaon), or using ADS-B In and Out.
    • Pros: Portable transponder detectors are available and a few hundred dollars. Most people say they started seeing aircraft they never would have before.
    • Cons: the ADS-B In gadgets provide a very poor picture of traffic, you must have Out to get the complete picture. No gadget detects 100% of traffic.
  • Make other aircraft notice you. Could include day-glo orange paint schemes, etc. but I'll stick with wig-wag lights.
    • Pros: If you're already installing lights for night flight (taxi/landing), there are several add-on gadgets that wig-wag the lights, even warm up HID lights, etc. Wig-wagging the front lights is very effective for being noticed in the traffic pattern. Not expensive to add.
    • Cons: Reduces lamp life, especially HIDs. May cause clicking noise on the headsets if your wiring isn't fully up to par. Doesn't help for faster aircraft approaching from behind.
  • In-flight weather. For decades there was only looking outside, talking to Flight Service, and HIWAS, but now graphical weather is available during flight. There are two methods: XM satellite broadcasts and ADS-B In.
    • Pros: far better idea of weather nearby and along your cross country route. Portable gadgets of either type are not expensive.
    • Cons: XM requires a paid subscription. ADS-B may not be available, especially in mountainous West. Weather is several minutes old.
  • Guided descent systems. Much more than the "Nearest Airport" button on GPSs, these new systems calculate the best airport to land at, taking into account terrain, wind, and runway orientation, and your plane's glide performance. Xavion makes the software and provides a $99 iPad app which shows a series of floating "hoops" to fly through to the runway threshold. Vertical Power incorporates the software in their VP-400 unit which actually flies your auto-pilot equipped airplane to the runway.
    • Pros. If you already have an iPad, very cheap assistance for a common accident source: VMC flight into IMC by an unskilled pilot. The VP solution could provide a way for a non-pilot passenger to land in the event of pilot incapacitation. Fairly easy to add the iPad version to existing aircraft.
    • Cons: VP solution very costly and difficult to retrofit, works only for certain autopilots (not Dynon at this writing).
  • Stall warning. Our RVs and many other E/AB airplanes provide no warning of approaching stall other than the inherent feel of the airplane. Active stall warning devices are available, many in the form of visual angle-of-attack indicators and audible warnings.
    • Pros: warn of stall before it happens, alerting the distracted or unobserving pilot during critical turns in the pattern. Systems available that don't require a glass panel.
    • Cons: separate systems pricey. All require permanent installation and calibration.
  • Fuel flow and totalizers. Fuel gages are required in all aircraft but are notorious for poor accuracy. An inline fuel flow meter + totalizer can supplement the fuel gage with a running, instantaneous measure of fuel consumed.
    • Pros: provides an independent measure of fuel consumption and interesting data such as instantaneous fuel consumption and miles per gallon.
    • Cons: more expense and another gizmo to fail or leak in a critical aircraft component, fuel lines. Won't directly detect a leaky fuel tank, though a sudden discrepancy between fuel gage and totalizer might alert the pilot something is wrong.
(Continued)
 
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(...continued)

  • Replace mechanical fuel pump with 2nd electric pump.
    • Pros: Mechanical pumps fail at higher rates than electric pumps [stats?].
    • Cons: Expense and installation bother. I'm not familiar with this, is the replacement electric pump firewall-forward, or firewall-aft like the usual boost pump? The replacement pump is always on, so can a 2nd boost pump serve, or does it need to be special?
  • Personal parachute.
    • Pros: Not too costly, should work with any aircraft with a way of opening the door or canopy in flight. Required for aerobatics with passenger(s).
    • Cons: may be uncomfortable, has to be put on and off each flight, not suitable for aircraft without jettison-able canopy or door. Exiting the aircraft, falling, and landing incur lots of additional risks.
  • Ballistic parachute. Perhaps the ultimate safety measure.
    • Pros: Potentially useful in all crises except engine fire. Easy to activate.
    • Cons: Very costly. Difficult installation and probably very difficult to retrofit. I have the idea that statistically, BRS-equipped aircraft don't have a better accident or fatality rate than other aircraft of similar type; true?
  • Other ideas: Carry a Personal Locator Beacon; wear flame retardant clothing; for the mandatory aircraft ELT, use a modern 406 MHz model with GPS.
Finally, one can always get additional training. Don't want a full IFR rating? Get some time with an instructor in actual IMC, practicing level flight, turns, climbs, and descents. Don't want to learn acro? Maybe just get unusual attitude training or a spin endorsement. Even a tail wheel endorsement, formation flying training or joining the FAA Wings program can improve safety proficiency in all aspects of flying.

I have or will use: extra firewall protection (intumescent paint), stainless steel heat control, the Anti-Splat fixes for the nose gear, ADS-B In/Out for traffic and weather, AOA indicator (these last two using Dynon Skyview), the Xavion iPad runway finder, fuel totalizer, and modern 406 MHz/GPS ELT. I'll seriously consider seatbelt airbags if they're available for RV aircraft [nope]. I also want to get actual IMC time and unusual attitude training, and got a tail wheel and spin endorsement years ago.

My hope with these extra safety measures is that they will reduce the chances of the statistically most common, or most catastrophic, accidents and events. The trick is to then not take more risks (like flying near thunderstorms, because now you can "see" the weather) just because you have the new gizmos and features.
 
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and

add.. delete the mechanical fuel pump

Delete: stall warning.. thats for student pilot in Cessnas...;)
 
add.. delete the mechanical fuel pump

Delete: stall warning.. thats for student pilot in Cessnas...;)

Haha! Well, I've heard the military aircraft always have an AOA indicator, if they can, why not our RVs?

I'm not familiar with ditching the pump, is the replacement electric pump firewall-forward, or firewall-aft like the usual boost pump? The replacement pump is always on, so can a standard 2nd boost pump serve, or does the replacement need to be special?
 
Ballistic parachute. Perhaps the ultimate safety measure.

Pros: Potentially useful in all crises except engine fire. Easy to activate.
Cons: Very costly. Difficult installation and probably very difficult to retrofit. I have the idea that statistically, BRS-equipped aircraft don't have a better accident or fatality rate than other aircraft of similar type; true?

Yes true. In fact in some cases the Cirrus accident rate is worse than non-BRS aircraft. Reading Cirrus accident reports, I think that there is an underlying psychological issue here called risk homeostasis.

Risk homeostasis is the phenomenon whereby someone will assume more risk if he or she is aware of some sort of magic bullet as the ultimate backstop. I don't have a problem with the technology but I do have a real issue with the attitude that it seems to create.


John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Well

Haha! Well, I've heard the military aircraft always have an AOA indicator, if they can, why not our RVs?

I'm not familiar with ditching the pump, is the replacement electric pump firewall-forward, or firewall-aft like the usual boost pump? The replacement pump is always on, so can a standard 2nd boost pump serve, or does the replacement need to be special?

Because your not landing it on a carrier deck thats too short at the best of times..:)

Mechanical fuel pumps are prone to Vapour lock ( this is the primary reason low wing certified A/C cannot get an STC to run auto fuel, because it vapour locks even easier than 100LL).. Mainly because they are foward of the firewall and bolted to the back of a hot engine.. sucking a high vapour pressure liquid (fuel) uphill.

The duel electric pumps go behind the firewall.. or in the wingroots.

Some form of electrical backup is required as you state.

You would need to check if the stanard cube pump will work by itself for the carbed version, probably will... Mine was fuel injected and as long as the pump has enough flow they are capable of making way more pressure than needed. This pressure is limited by a relief valve that flows back to the tank.

I have had teo airplanes set up this way with a combined total of about 1200 hours flight time.

Lots of posts on this subject and my system is detailed on VAF under my name

Frank
 
Thanks for the well thought out listing, Ralph. Is there a list of root causes of accidents and injuries as a result of that can me mated to this list? ( I have not found one)

I have no documented data, but it seems (feels) like loss of power, fuel is one of the causes (not the true root causes however) for crash, or landing without power. It would be good to match (fuel system) recommendations to avoiding root causes, without creating new ones too!

Again, thanks, it is this kind of thinking and effort to change our mindset and decisions in building that we can use.

Added: I googled and searched for accidents for EAB - A VAFer posted that there were 28 RV accidents in 2008. 23 of them were loss of control, 10 in the landing T/O phase. I am happy I have transition training scheduled as I will end up a better builder than pilot if not careful and plan ahead. 20% of EAB accidents are under 40 hrs (flight time) , and 50% occur by ~140 hours. This makes the insurance more understandable.
 
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As has been hinted above, each item in the list needs then to be "multiplied" by the number / probability of accidents it prevents.

The "firewall forward" fire has a great emphasis in your post, but a very rare event AFAIK? If the effort went into preventing the fire in the 1st place, might that not be better? Replace the lines more often, inspect more often, get a second view on the design / component types?

As you move to at the end of your post, the aircraft is not really the problem, it is the "stick seat interface" that needs making safer for maximum benefit ;)

Technology rarely makes the safety enhancement it ought. BRS is a case in point. (E)GPWS has worked in the airline world, but then we see people here advocating how it "increases their SA" i.e. they intend to fly using it, rather than just using it as the last ditch "pull up" indicator.

Just my 2ps - sorry - 2c worth
 
One item I did not see listed was a wing leveler autopilot. In addition to making cross-countries less tiring, if a person makes a serious mistake and enters clouds, a wing-leveler could be the tool that helps him get out of the clouds without entering a death spiral.

An AoA may be useful in preventing stall/spins.

Gadgets can be useful but I suspect that until people stop allowing poor judgment to rule decision-making, preventable fatalities will keep happening.

We also need to do a better job of properly securing critical fittings (fuel/oil). I just this week read about the RV-10 that had an oil pressure line come loose after about 5-6 six hours of Phase 1 flight of an RV-10. This type event should never happen.
 
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The beauty of our EAB aircraft is that anyone of you can add these items, as you feel necessary.

* Replace aluminum heater control box with stainless steel one. Vans supplies an aluminum heater control box which mounts on the engine side of the firewall. This would presumably fail quickly in an engine fire. Aircraft Spruce sells an identical unit made from stainless steel.
While that seems like a great idea, they are still riveted together with aluminum rivets. DUH!

* Air bag seat belts. Amsafe sells these, they are like car air bags but mounted in the seatbelt strap.
I feel the same way about these as I do about airbombs in cars, I do NOT want a pyrotechnic device that close to my face. Even worse, one strapped to my chest. Properly designed and worn seatbelts are the way to go.

Remember, in a car, they are "Supplemental Restraints Systems", not primary. The primary is your seatbelt and they only help you with the first impact, after that you are back to your seatbelts.

Ever wonder why they make you remove them when setting up a car for track use? They are something you simply don't want going off at the wrong time and I have seen the results that can occur when a driver hits a bad bump and they go off "accidently", it is not pretty. Mostly because the thing is deflated when the secondary impact occurs.

* Fuel flow and totalizers. Fuel gages are required in all aircraft but are notorious for poor accuracy. An inline fuel flow meter + totalizer can supplement the fuel gage with a running, instantaneous measure of fuel consumed.
This all depends on the fuel system. The capacitance fuel senders in my plane are a LOT more accurate than the fuel flow will ever be.

* Replace mechanical fuel pump with 2nd electric pump.
The reason we have an engine driven pump AND an electric pump is that if the electrical system fails, you still have a fuel pump.

That seems like the best of both worlds. Why would you want a system that is reliant on belt driven electrical system or a battery of unknown reliability?

Finally, one can always get additional training. Don't want a full IFR rating? Get some time with an instructor in actual IMC, practicing level flight, turns, climbs, and descents. Don't want to learn acro? Maybe just get unusual attitude training or a spin endorsement. Even a tail wheel endorsement, formation flying training or joining the FAA Wings program can improve safety proficiency in all aspects of flying.
....
Now you are talking. When I was an SCCA Safety Steward we used to start each safety lecture with, "The biggest safety risk is the loose nut behind the wheel!" More training is probably the best advice and that training may be simply flying with an instructor once a year. Check your ego at the door and do some things that you don't normally do; stalls, no-flap landings, hood work, etc.

Also, installing an easy to use auto pilot will go a long way, should you get into IMC. The Dynon comes on simply and has a 180 degree about face option. It doesn't get any easier than that.
 
Training

Training is the single best investment an aviator can make. A well trained pilot in a minimally equipped airplane is a better overall proposition than a minimally trained pilot in a well equipped airplane. If funds are scarce, an instrument rating and/or advanced handling training may be a better investment than advanced instrumentation. Some of us are fortunate to have benefitted from formal flight training courteousy of Uncle Sam and/or the airlines, but many if us have to pay and find our own way. What we do have is a tremendous community for mutual support--especially in the RV world (Thanks Doug!).

Much discussion revolves around the building end of this avocation, and the amount of support and technology is nothing short of astounding. It might be time to consider placing as much emphasis on on the operational/training end as well.

An easy, free, first step is to find a wingman. This is any other RV'er that you can use for mutual support. If its someone more experienced, great; but even two inexperienced folks with the right attitude will work. The idea is that you have a teammate to bounce ideas off of, watch out for and share ideas and experiences with. Many of us already do this, but if you don't, it might be worth considering.

Fly safe,

Vac
 
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Experimental Freedom

I strongly agree with post #7 in this thread, regarding BRCs and risk taking.
To quote John Clark, homeostasis is the phenomenon that someone will assume more risk if he or she is aware of some sort of magic bullet as the ultimate backstop.

This might go a long way to explaining the fact that glass panel GA AC have 2X the fatality rate of non glass panels.(according to the FAA) Personally I love glass when it is working, but no doubt in my mind it has likely enticed some pilots beyond their skills and/or altered fly/ not fly decisions. Also the continue on or take the 180 deg and stay VFR.

Regarding AOA... I believe it is most useful and most applicable for wing loadings far in excess of 20 lbs per square ft.
For example the Hornet with a gross takeoff weight of 45,000 lbs and a landing weight as light as 25,000lbs and wing area of 400 sq ft. = 112 lbs per sq ft at GTO WT but can be down as light as 62.5 lbs/ sq. ft at landing!!!
That is the reason military jets use an AOA indicator. They actually need one

RV's with wing loadings below 20 lbs / sq ft have loads of tactile feel by comparison.

But it is thankfully a free country in the USA and you can use what you want in the experimental class. I hope and pray it stays that way. I am most thankful for Paul Poberezny, the EAA and experimental aircraft.

Light and simple for me thanks.
 
For every item listed in this thread..........I could come up with plenty of data and evidence to support, and make a case, in either direction. Applies to highly trained pilots versus less trained & sophisticated avionics also.

Therefor, I never seem to get anymore out of these discussions, that what I knew before reading it all......

It's nothing but personal opinions. Best advice I can think of, is to highly research a lot more facts, than what you'll see in this very condensed form.
 
In response RE: Fuel pumps

Of all the items that have failed on me in numerous certified and experimental AC over the years it has been alternators and voltage regulators or wiring ends on harnesses near the alternator. I would not even consider flying in any low wing or fuel injected (pressure required for power) aircraft that did not have a mechanical engine driven fuel pump. Perhaps the idea of 2 electric boost pumps is worthy of consideration, but as per the thread starters idea of no mechanical pump...... Batteries will not run a fuel pump for any safe or useable length of time.
 
Without commenting on individual items in the list, I'd point out that while the added level of safety from any item in the list is certainly debatable, the added weight, cost, and/or complexity is not.
 
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I would not even consider flying in any low wing or fuel injected (pressure required for power) aircraft that did not have a mechanical engine driven fuel pump.

I'm assuming then, that you also will not ever fly in IMC conditions, for the same reason?

A fully redundant electrical system is a requirement, I'll grant you that - but to categorically deny that anyone might ever be able to do it safely enough for you to consider is just sticking your head in the sand. With redundant electrical supply, your fuel pumps and avionics are a long way ahead of your non-redundant critical items such as single elevator cables, single prop, single crankshaft, single oil pump, single throttle cable, etc etc. You can't make flying safe - you can only make it safe enough.
 
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I'm not sure I follow your logic here. I have flown plenty of IMC in certified AC.

My understanding is that very few electrical fuel pumps are rated for constant duty that will flow 30 GPM and 35PSI.

I also am willing to bet you won't find one single Lyc owner on this forum that is running fuel injection in a low wing AC that does not use a mechanical fuel pump plus an electrical boost pump.

8 years ago on a night IFR flight in a Piper Lance, I had the alternator give up on climb out. The battery lasted just long enough to get the gear back down and locked on final. And their were some long seconds waiting for the faint and dim green lights. Most of my other alternator failures have been certified AC alternators.

Just imagine your engine dying on climb out from fuel starvation and having to switch electrical busses before you get fuel pressure back for a restart. No thanks.

I also will NOT fly with dual electronic ignitions for the same reason.
When things go bad they often result in a chain of events that happen about the same speed as your sink rate.

Check with Ross Farnham what happens and how fast it manifests when the alternator quits on a Sub with electronic FI.

You are free to build it how you want.
 
I also will NOT fly with dual electronic ignitions for the same reason.
When things go bad they often result in a chain of events that happen about the same speed as your sink rate.
QUOTE]

Hi Romeo,
Are you including the P-mags in this group?? I test mine for electrical failure and they continue to perform. That's why I got em.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers,
 
I'm not sure I follow your logic here. I have flown plenty of IMC in certified AC.

My understanding is that very few electrical fuel pumps are rated for constant duty that will flow 30 GPM and 35PSI.

Several manufacturers do make them rated for that, the automotive world has been doing it for about 30 years now.

I also am willing to bet you won't find one single Lyc owner on this forum that is running fuel injection in a low wing AC that does not use a mechanical fuel pump plus an electrical boost pump.

I know of three of them that post here regularly, and several more that are building that way (myself included) that have not flown yet.

8 years ago on a night IFR flight in a Piper Lance, I had the alternator give up on climb out. The battery lasted just long enough to get the gear back down and locked on final. And their were some long seconds waiting for the faint and dim green lights. Most of my other alternator failures have been certified AC alternators.

I thought we were discussing fixed-gear RV's... my mistake... :rolleyes:

Just imagine your engine dying on climb out from fuel starvation and having to switch electrical busses before you get fuel pressure back for a restart. No thanks.

With proper forethought there is no need for switching busses. It's rather easy to build a redundant electrical system that alerts you to a primary failure and automatically switches to the secondary. Your example is absolutely no different from losing your mechanical on climbout and having to switch on your boost pump - it's still the time required to recognize the problem and flip one switch. Don't give me the argument that you would have the electric boost pump on for climbout so that wouldn't happen - you would have two pumps for that phase of flight (one mechanical and one electric) and so would I - with two electrics (one from each wing). Equal.

I'll also stipulate that when I say "redundant power supply" I am NOT talking about a single alternator and a single battery. I have primary and secondary alternators that can each handle 100% of the ships load, the battery is the final layer of backup. It would be highly unlikely to lose BOTH alternators in a single flight.


I also will NOT fly with dual electronic ignitions for the same reason.
When things go bad they often result in a chain of events that happen about the same speed as your sink rate.

Any exposure at all to risk that requires a redundant electric supply is not increased by installing further items that require a redundant electric supply. Night-VFR or actual IFR work realistically requires redundant power, and you admit flying in those conditions. Running a fuel or ignition system that also requires redundant power adds no further risk, as long as you truly have a functional redundant power supply. If the supply is good enough for IMC nav equipment, then it's good enough for fuel and ignition.

Check with Ross Farnham what happens and how fast it manifests when the alternator quits on a Sub with electronic FI.

At that's exactly why you need to have redundant power supply with any power-required critical flight system.

You are free to build it how you want.

Thankfully, yes.


Now, don't get in a huff and start thinking that I'm hacking on you, I'm really not. I'm just trying to show that any absolute statement like "I would NEVER EVER do xxxx in a plane that doesn't have yyyy or zzzz!" is just silly, even more so when people try to push their standards onto others. If we never did anything that hadn't been done before for at least 40 years and proven safe, we wouldn't be flying at all today. There are many different ways of achieving a goal other than the way it's been done for the last 40 years. I'll be quite happy to discuss the design of the electrical system in my aircraft at length with anyone, I know that I might just accidentally learn something in the process. I've been playing with electricity for about 30 years now and I think I've got it pretty well figured out - but I'm still building my first airplane so it's a new application for me.
 
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I work with airplanes that are electrically-dependent for everything--navigation, ignition, fuel supply, even flight controls. All of those systems have multiple levels of redundancy (power supplies and components). Other systems that were mechanically-controlled/powered on previous aircraft but are electric on this one have proven to be more reliable and easier to maintain than the systems they replaced.

There's a tendency in aviation (particularly at the small end) to automatically trust mechanical devices over electronic ones. I suspect part of that tendency is due to experience in older certified aircraft with (by today's standards) woefully sub-par electrical designs, older analog electronics, and limited to no redundancy in the electrical system. The thing is, mechanical isn't necessarily more reliable.

There's no reason an electric-only fuel pump system couldn't be installed provided that adequate redundancy is available in both pumps and power sources, and the design of the system eliminates single-point failures and uses components of appropriate quality and performance.
 
...
There's a tendency in aviation (particularly at the small end) to automatically trust mechanical devices over electronic ones. I suspect part of that tendency is due to experience in older certified aircraft with (by today's standards) woefully sub-par electrical designs, older analog electronics, and limited to no redundancy in the electrical system. The thing is, mechanical isn't necessarily more reliable...

And now, we have very reliable electrical components controlled by complex software. Nothing can go wrogn.

V
 
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