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What makes the RV14 kit faster to build?

GPV

Member
Hi all,

Can any of you builders tell me what makes the 14 faster to build?

I am aware of the following:

Final sized holes
Pre-assembled wiring loom
Easy fit canopy

Is there anything else? Any prefab parts that aren't in the other kits or anything? What about deburring, etc?

Your advice is appreciated!

Greg
 
RV14

Just about everything, the canopy glass is precut for front and rear, canopy frame is assembled on a bench and fits great, all holes for the most part is prepunched to size, all Fiberglass parts are gel coated and marked with trim lines.
It's an amazing kit, the fit and finish of the components is second to no one.
 
Many of the parts that have to be cut and filed from aluminum bar and angle stock come pre done.

All that adds up to a LOT of time savings!
 
The 14 kit is amazing. I hate using that word (my wife uses it far too often) but that's what it is. With the 14 you're not really building a plane, you're assembling it.

No matter how many times I'm certain that I've cocked up and that things won't fit together they do.
 
I probably characterize it slightly different. A 14-A compared to a 7-A ( so I can speak of personal experience) takes a bit less time to build but much easier and more repeatable. The canopy is by far the biggest difference and easier to build compared to a typical tip-up. The next big difference is the much higher quality in finishing of the fiberglass parts.
It took me 15 months to build a 7A from start to first flight (paint included) and took 13 months for a 14A including paint.
The kit also comes with many items that you might need to purchase separately with other kit, hence less time researching.
 
Agree with all others' comments, and will add this: I think RV-14/14A's will be much more consistent in quality (and functionality) when finished, because there is so much less variability in the fit/finish of parts. Now that I'm flying mine, I'm hard pressed to see it as a "home built"/ one-off aircraft but something much more like a production aircraft. Even panels in -14s tend to be more consistent, especially if sourced from SteinAir or similar: the recent Stein Air tour thread has a panel in progress that looks so much like mine that I did a double-take, likewise many of the new ones showing up on Facebook have very similar panels.

I think this consistency will add to market / resale value for 14's as well.
 
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Thanks for the responses everyone. It's nearly sold it for me. Now if only that climb rate was a littler higher! I prefer sliding canopies in the hot climate here too but I can live with it.

I think anything that reduces time and hence the chance of losing interest is a good thing.

Bavafa, having built both now, which do you prefer to fly?
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. It's nearly sold it for me. Now if only that climb rate was a littler higher! I prefer sliding canopies in the hot climate here too but I can live with it.

I think anything that reduces time and hence the chance of losing interest is a good thing.

Bavafa, having built both now, which do you prefer to fly?

Mine climbs like a bat out of hades.... What are you looking for in terms of climb rate?
 
Bavafa, having built both now, which do you prefer to fly?

Hands down, the 14. I loved my 7 and it was a beautiful, trouble free and capable RV but the 14 has grown on me so much more and I love some of the improvements that they have done to the kit. Simple things as the steps, pre cut engine baffles and the main gear logs.
 
Haha to be honest it's got plenty, it's just that when comparing the 7 and 14 on paper the 7 climbs 500-odd fpm faster.

The specified difference is about 350 FPM but that is with the RV-14 carrying an additional 100 lbs of useful load (~800, vs the RV-7's 700).
With that taken into account the the climb capability is nearly the same.
 
I'm in the research process being deployed at the moment, but wanted to ask about de-burring. If the holes on the 14 are already punched final size, do those holes still need to be de-burred? I'm assuming so, but wanted to ask as I'm still learning the process.

Would using a #40 reamer on the holes once cleco'd together speed the process up? Only reason I ask is I had read on someone's forum once that had built several RV's that using a reamer for final drilling left such a clean hole that you would not need to de-burr the holes. I have no clue one way or the other as I have never built one yet.

Keith
 
I'm in the research process being deployed at the moment, but wanted to ask about de-burring. If the holes on the 14 are already punched final size, do those holes still need to be de-burred? I'm assuming so, but wanted to ask as I'm still learning the process.

Would using a #40 reamer on the holes once cleco'd together speed the process up? Only reason I ask is I had read on someone's forum once that had built several RV's that using a reamer for final drilling left such a clean hole that you would not need to de-burr the holes. I have no clue one way or the other as I have never built one yet.

Keith

What I found is that they need deburring "on condition" - the holes are generally punched to size and need no deburring. In most of those instances, a bit of light work with Scotchbrite is all that's needed - usually on the "exit" side of the punched hole.

Synergy Air teaches a method of dimpling skins with the blue vinyl still in place - you can't deburr with vinyl in place so they're confident in the quality of the holes with no deburring (and my understanding is that Van's is OK with this).

You have to read the instructions carefully though - some parts are common with other models or for other reasons are punched undersized. In these cases the instructions tell you to match- or final- drill, in which case deburring should be considered likely. I like using reamers and found that in many but not all cases holes final drilled with reamer are clean enough that no deburring is needed.

Regarding climb rates, it should be noted that most folks are finding CHT's to be much better in climb on the -14 models that other Van's models (oil temps tend to be hotter). Step climbing is necessary for some. So the -14 may be pretty equal overall with the 7 for that reason. I live in Florida and have had zero issues with high CHT on climb, but I usually fly early in the day. That said, we're just getting into our real summer weather here.
 
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The kit also comes with many items that you might need to purchase separately with other kit, hence less time researching.

I've heard this mentioned before but I don't believe I've ever found a good description of what all is included that isn't included in the other kits and/or what those items would likely cost if needed to be purchased separately. Can anyone shed some light on that?
 
I've heard this mentioned before but I don't believe I've ever found a good description of what all is included that isn't included in the other kits and/or what those items would likely cost if needed to be purchased separately. Can anyone shed some light on that?
Wiring aside, which frankly I did not use any of them and returned them for good chunk of $$$, things like Andair fuel selector (this is an upgrade to the VANS basic model), dual break, sniffle valve, defrost fans. Just a short list that comes to mind. Perhaps none of these are necessary and could be removed from the list or returned for credit but it is a well thought out list, in my opinion. I suspect the cost will be cheaper as part of the kit since VANs discounts the items that comes in a kit.
 
Wiring aside, which frankly I did not use any of them and returned them for good chunk of $$$, things like Andair fuel selector (this is an upgrade to the VANS basic model), dual break, sniffle valve, defrost fans. Just a short list that comes to mind. Perhaps none of these are necessary and could be removed from the list or returned for credit but it is a well thought out list, in my opinion. I suspect the cost will be cheaper as part of the kit since VANs discounts the items that comes in a kit.

I was thinking more in terms of weighing the pros and cons of a 9 vs a 14. I like the roominess of the 14, but the cost premium is hard to swallow. There is no doubt that a 14 will cost more simply because its very unlikely you'd find a used motor for it so that option goes away. Can't opt to use a fixed pitch prop either. But it would be a bit easier to justify if most of the $10k cost difference between the kits was offset because you're actually getting about $10k worth of items that you'd have to buy anyway if you went with a 9 kit.

Like I said, I've seen this discussed (the kits costs more but you get more) but I've never seen anyone put any real numbers on it.
 
I was thinking more in terms of weighing the pros and cons of a 9 vs a 14. I like the roominess of the 14, but the cost premium is hard to swallow. There is no doubt that a 14 will cost more simply because its very unlikely you'd find a used motor for it so that option goes away. Can't opt to use a fixed pitch prop either. But it would be a bit easier to justify if most of the $10k cost difference between the kits was offset because you're actually getting about $10k worth of items that you'd have to buy anyway if you went with a 9 kit.

Like I said, I've seen this discussed (the kits costs more but you get more) but I've never seen anyone put any real numbers on it.

I don't think it's reasonable to compare a larger/heavier/more powerful airplane to another and expect costs to be "close". On the flip side, the value of the 14 will be higher when done, so the money isn't disappearing. Not sure I understand why you'd need to justify the difference - they're different airplanes.
 
Not sure I understand why you'd need to justify the difference - they're different airplanes.
Different airplanes, same mission. Two seat traveling. Either one would work for that.

Also don't get too hung up on the word justify. Its not so much justifying as understanding what the costs will be. All the information I can find says the 9 will be cheaper. But then I see 'yeah but the 14 includes a lot of stuff you'd have to buy anyway if you building something like a 9'.

I'd like to understand what these items are and what they'll cost for budgeting purposes if nothing else. And yeah, on some level I'd hate to go into a 9 because it looks like it will be X cheaper than a 14 and then find out when its all said and done it was only Y cheaper because of things like these mystery items.
 
I'd like to understand what these items are and what they'll cost for budgeting purposes if nothing else. And yeah, on some level I'd hate to go into a 9 because it looks like it will be X cheaper than a 14 and then find out when its all said and done it was only Y cheaper because of things like these mystery items.

If absolute cost is the driving concern, then build the -9; it'll be less expensive than the -14 in nearly all cases. If, on the other hand, value is the driving concern, then it's all down to precisely which aspects/features are important to you.

In other words, none of us have enough information to make a judgement and a complete list comparing the line items omitted from the standard -9 kit and included with the -14 is something which is unlikely to have been compiled by anyone here.

Perhaps simply ask Van's to generate a comparison with an eye toward those specific items of import to you.
 
What I found is that they need deburring "on condition" - the holes are generally punched to size and need no deburring. In most of those instances, a bit of light work with Scotchbrite is all that's needed - usually on the "exit" side of the punched hole.

Synergy Air teaches a method of dimpling skins with the blue vinyl still in place - you can't deburr with vinyl in place so they're confident in the quality of the holes with no deburring (and my understanding is that Van's is OK with this).

You have to read the instructions carefully though - some parts are common with other models or for other reasons are punched undersized. In these cases the instructions tell you to match- or final- drill, in which case deburring should be considered likely. I like using reamers and found that in many but not all cases holes final drilled with reamer are clean enough that no deburring is needed.

Turner,

Thank you for the info. Much appreciated.

Keith
 
Hi all,

Can any of you builders tell me what makes the 14 faster to build?

I am aware of the following:

Final sized holes
Pre-assembled wiring loom
Easy fit canopy

Is there anything else? Any prefab parts that aren't in the other kits or anything? What about deburring, etc?

Your advice is appreciated!



Greg
Build per plans, keep your systems/panel/electrical simple, Don't prime. Build at your house/garage, heat your workshop, Install a big dry erase board in your shop for notes, Buy quick release pins for your tatco riveter.
 
I will have to say this has been a really easy kit to assemble so far. EVERYTHING, just fits! Step by step instructions, really well machined parts and Vans support = AWESOMENESS Andrew got me started by watching every one of his videos and some 3 times over. Thanks Andrew! The only thing that takes most of your time, is prep work like deburring.
 
Hands down, the 14. I loved my 7 and it was a beautiful, trouble free and capable RV but the 14 has grown on me so much more and I love some of the improvements that they have done to the kit. Simple things as the steps, pre cut engine baffles and the main gear logs.

I have to think that pilot size has a lot to do with the choice for many. Speaking as a 5’-10”, 155# “pipsqueak”, my 7A fits me like a glove and I would not trade its nimbleness and the performance I enjoy for anything. Although my long-legged 6’-2”, 185#(200# with chute) aerobatics instructor can squeeze in beside me(WELL within Van’s aerobatic weight and CG limits with 20 gallons fuel, btw), he is clearly uncomfortable in my plane and much happier in his own RV-8.

Americans tend to be bigger in all dimensions than they were 50 years ago, so the 14 is a very logical progression in Van’s lineup as it can accommodate almost anyone. I’d have to recommend the 7 or 9 for pilots in my size range, but if I were the size of my instructor, the 14 would be a no-brainer.- Otis
 
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I have to think that pilot size has a lot to do with the choice for many. Speaking as a 5?-10?, 155# ?pipsqueak?, my 7A fits me like a glove and I would not trade its nimbleness and the performance I enjoy for anything. Although my long-legged 6?-2?, 185#(200# with chute) aerobatics instructor can squeeze in beside me(WELL within Van?s aerobatic weight and CG limits with 20 gallons fuel, btw), he is clearly uncomfortable in my plane and much happier in his own RV-8.

Americans tend to be bigger in all dimensions than they were 50 years ago, so the 14 is a very logical progression in Van?s lineup as it can accommodate almost anyone. I?d have to recommend the 7 or 9 for pilots in my size range, but if I were the size of my instructor, the 14 would be a no-brainer.- Otis
Otis,
I am of similar height but wider, at 185lb, and never felt squeezed in my RV7A. I enjoyed it tremendously but one thing that I like about the 14 more, it is much friendly for a instrument flying than the 7. This, coupled with better nose/landing gear makes it a great choice for me, and the extra room helps too.
 
Otis,
I am of similar height but wider, at 185lb, and never felt squeezed in my RV7A. I enjoyed it tremendously but one thing that I like about the 14 more, it is much friendly for a instrument flying than the 7. This, coupled with better nose/landing gear makes it a great choice for me, and the extra room helps too.

Exactly. Although my wife and I are both slim (think the “old” normal - 6’/160 & 5’6”/112), the -14A was a no-brainer. The vastly-improved kit, the increased elbow room, the larger panel area, the friendlier instrument-flying qualities, and the re-engineered nose gear were all contributing factors in our opting for the -14A.

Once my wife requested a nosewheel, side-by-side RV this time around, no other model was considered.
 
Otis,
I am of similar height but wider, at 185lb, and never felt squeezed in my RV7A. I enjoyed it tremendously but one thing that I like about the 14 more, it is much friendly for a instrument flying than the 7. This, coupled with better nose/landing gear makes it a great choice for me, and the extra room helps too.

Point taken- although I?m hoping the G3X/GTN/GSA28/GMC507 Garmin system I?m installing with AFCS and auto-trim will help tame the twitchiness of the 7 quite a bit when IFR. I do also love its aerobatic performance. Got to admit the nose gear on the 14 is relatively bulletproof, though. I?m installing Anti-splat but it will still be inferior to that.- Otis
 
I will have to say this has been a really easy kit to assemble so far. EVERYTHING, just fits! Step by step instructions, really well machined parts and Vans support = AWESOMENESS Andrew got me started by watching every one of his videos and some 3 times over. Thanks Andrew! The only thing that takes most of your time, is prep work like deburring.

Anytime Ron! It?s hard not to have fun, even with all the deburring, when things fit the first time like you?d meant to do it that way! And then we all take a little credit when something doesn?t look like it fits together but we make it fit! We still say it?s vans great kits (which it is) but inside we tell ourselves it?s us :D
 
The 14 kit is amazing. I hate using that word (my wife uses it far too often) but that's what it is. With the 14 you're not really building a plane, you're assembling it.

No matter how many times I'm certain that I've cocked up and that things won't fit together they do.

How does this kit compare to the RV-12 in terms of the kit itself?
 
How does this kit compare to the RV-12 in terms of the kit itself?

Finding someone outside the factory with personal experience of both the -12 and -14 kits seems like a real long shot. Those two models aren't typically cross-shopped, let alone built by the same guys. One's mission would have to seriously change to switch from either to the other.
 
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