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Who's got the fastest RV-4?

S

steve91t

Well Known Member
I think within the next couple of years, I'll be able to afford a higher time, $40k RV4. What I really want is a Rocket because of the cruise speed. But at the same time, they are easily $100k and the operating costs are higher at lower altitudes.

So, lets say I get a $40k RV4, put a 180hp engine on it with a composite CS 2 bladed prop, fast back, EVO wings, and some speed mods, is a honest 180 kts true possible? Faster?

Even if it ends up being an $80k RV-4 spent over time, it's still less than a Rocket, and will have a much lower operating cost. Doing it this way will allow me to get into a 4, fly the wings off it, and as time goes by and I save up do one thing at a time.

Anyway, just wanted to hear what some of you have done to your 4's and what kind of cruise speed is possible.

Steve
 
Speed is Life?

Steve,

Being a legacy RV-4 dude and having been blessed to fly over 130 different 4's and Rockets over the years I haven't met one I didn't like.

I have my own opinions on the subject. First things first: have you flown one yet? When you do you or you already have realized it is a wonderful compromise airplane. Speed, mild acro, low relative cost STOL. However comma, in my consulting business everybody asks the proverbial question, how fast does it go? I ask right back, how fast do you want to go? How much money do you have :)

The fastest 4 I know of is Dave Anders winged masterpiece, nearly 20 years of aircraft evolution in process. IO-360 angle valve by LyCon, several prop iterations and fastback/faired composite control surfaced. 240 MPH during the CAFE trials, pretty darn fast for a 210 MPH VNE design. My HR2 would do 215 Knots in level flight at 27 squared 24GPH, big tires, caked mud and all. All of the RV4 mods you can muster(fastback, big engine, prop) will give you around 180 KTAS at 8500'. Even a banged up 150 HP wood propped 90's vintage 4 will do 160 True at 8500'. Hard to beat the performance and value, of course Van said that when he penned the RV4 back in 1978...Sold me.

Questions?
Smokey

PS: The question I never hear? "How slow can you go"? When you live on a 1500' strip or like dog-fighting other airplanes (like I do) it is a real selling point. The answer: RV4 55 knots final approach speed, HR2: 62 Knots even slower with VG's. That is truly an amazing range.
:)
 
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steve91t said:
So, lets say I get a $40k RV4, put a 180hp engine on it with a composite CS 2 bladed prop, fast back, EVO wings, and some speed mods, is a honest 180 kts true possible? Faster?
Click to expand...

Quite likely could.

JetJ01's fastback RV-4 has a carbureted O-360, Hartzell BA CS prop, James cowl, and it'll walk off and leave the RV-8 in my avatar behind. See this thread: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=74115 pics of JJ's plane on page 2 of it. He says it'll easily hit 180 kts.

(The RV-8 is equipped with ECI IO-360, 9.2:1 pistons, cold air induction, and Hartzell BA CS prop too).
 
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Good analysis Smokey. On my -4 I get 176 TAS at 8K DA burning 8gph. O320D3G 160hp with Hartzel CS prop, single Electroair EI, a heavy right wing and no other mods. Stalls at 51kts clean except when pulling g's in a turning fight. With a bigger engine you add weight requiring more HP and higher stall when pulling g's. Higher weight also takes away from the already low aerobatic gross of the -4. The tradeoff for a few extra knots is not worth it in my opinion.
 
JJ's FB4

Steve/Mike/Neal,
JJ and I have been friends for longer than I care to elaborate :) He saw my 4 way back in 97' and since then has owned numerous RV's, several 4's amongst them. We both went the Rocket route and agreed many years ago that nothing flew better than a lightweight stock RV4. So when he started building his FB4 several years ago he had alot of corporate knowledge to build on. HR2 Fastback fuse, 0-360 carb/Hartzell BA. Dynon and garmin 496. The only place I disagree is the prop. I would have mounted a 3 blade Catto in lieu the Hartzell. (I like a light nose RV.) The BA is a great prop though...

That said...
180HP? Sure but a HP 0-320 or 0-340 does great as well for a few less lbs.
EVO wings? Not needed. Stock wings on a 4 work fine.
Composite prop. For me? Yes. C/S? How big is your wallet?

The Best RV4? Depends on YOU. (consider the source that JJ and I are old crusty Fighter guys) We both agree we don't like the 8 (no offense 8 guys) and agree the Rocket is a better airplane if you want a "bigger 4"(John Harmon figured that out a long time ago). But as you mentioned Rockets are spendy $$$. So, best bang for buck? JJ's FB4. As Neal mentioned it's par excellence. Light, simple, fast and aerobatic. 182 Knots TAS at 8500' 8-9 GPH for under $60K. Questions?

Smokey

Of all the RV's I have flown which is my favorite?
You're looking at it!


My HR2


JJ's FB4
 
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I was going to say,,,,

My -4 already does better then 180 knots in cruse at 10k' at 8.5-GPH or so,, but I normally choose to run at 160 knots at less then 7-GPH. You don't need no Evo wing! 180 to 200HP and a CS prop is nice though!
 
Nobody "needs" an EVO wing but check out the numbers from my last fall flight to Taylor Texas, T74
A 214knot true airspeed burning 11.4 gph. 182knot ground speed with a 33 knot headwind!
The EVO wing in regards to this discussion is simply academic as the wing would not fit on a RV4 fuselage. 180 knots on a clean RV4 is most certainly possible but it will take a bit of work to make a clean aircraft and more then a bit of money in terms of the engine and prop to get those numbers. Again, nobody needs an EVO wing but check this out, my top recorded average SARL speed was at the 2010 Rocket 100 race, 238.6 knots burning 23gph.

 
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steve91t said:
Even if it ends up being an $80k RV-4 spent over time, it's still less than a Rocket, and will have a much lower operating cost.
Click to expand...
There's no "if" there... If you put all those mods on it, you *will* have an $80K RV-4, or more. And as for the operating cost, I think you're kidding yourself. Rockets fly just fine (and sip less gas) at reduced power settings. Of course, when you factor in that you're getting there significantly faster in the first place, even flying at "normal" Rocket power settings isn't lots more expensive.

Doing it this way will allow me to get into a 4, fly the wings off it, and as time goes by and I save up do one thing at a time.
Click to expand...
This is the real benefit to your chosen path. Another option, of course, is that you could just finance a Rocket, and start flying a Rocket *now*. :)
 
Tom Martin said:
Nobody "needs" an EVO wing but check out the numbers from my last fall flight to Taylor Texas, T74
A 214knot true airspeed burning 11.4 gph. 182knot ground speed with a 33 knot headwind!
The EVO wing in regards to this discussion is simply academic as the wing would not fit on a RV4 fuselage. 180 knots on a clean RV4 is most certainly possible but it will take a bit of work to make a clean aircraft and more then a bit of money in terms of the engine and prop to get those numbers. Again, nobody needs an EVO wing but check this out, my top recorded average SARL speed was at the 2010 Rocket 100 race, 238.6 knots burning 23gph.

Click to expand...

To be clear I should have said nobody needs an Evo wing to reach Steve's stated goal of 180 knot cruse with an RV-4.
 
182 Knots at 9'500 feet, available MP and 2380 RPM is happening!

"180 knots on a clean RV4 is most certainly possible but it will take a bit of work to make a clean aircraft and more then a bit of money in terms of the engine and prop to get those numbers."

I agree with the above statement that it takes a bit of work on the 'clean' airframe. In my case it involved some changes to the basic RV-4 kit design as evidenced by the pictures on this thread. And it did come in lighter than some equally equipped at 1054#. And I did pay attention to my fairings and airframe intersections. However my engine was purchased on Barnstomers, a used, not so recently overhauled, yellow tagged 180 hp carbed and Slick magged engine off a twin Beech Travelair for $16K. The other engine is flying on a friends RV-6 (who I bought the engine from after he got the pick of the litter!). As for the prop, bone stock BA Hartzel 74" from Van's.

My RV-4FB wasn't built as cheap as I had hoped (<$40K) but less than half of what I sold my ROCKET for! Well well below $80K, just ask my ex-wife:rolleyes:

My build friends will tell you, like Neal, Paul, Greg, John and Smokey, that I built this plane based on a picture I had in my head of what I wanted it to look like after owning three previous -4s I had purchased flying, not based on a speed quest. I secretly hoped that it would not be the SLOWEST RV-4 in existance, but didn't know. I have been pleasantly surprised by its performance and IT IS consistantly that fast. Even faster down low and wide open, easily exceeding redline (not adviced!). I know it sounds impossible and more than one of you VAF listers have doubted it but after a formation sortie, are now believers. I'm just very happy with the plane! And I'm 6'1" and 200#s and VERY COMFORTABLE and just lask week had a 250# 6 footer in the 'pit'. It's a great overall compromise on a budget I can afford!

Thanks for the props Neal and Smokey!
 
Here are the speeds of every RV-4 in SARL race competition

Race Date Class Aircraft Type Pilot Speed Kts
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Gold RV-4 Anders, Dave 209.06
Big Sky Air Race 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-4 Travis, Brent 188.03
Pagosa Springs 100 9/24/11 RV Blue RV-4 Travis, Brent 186.49
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 186.01
Great Northwest Air Race II 6/18/11 RV Blue RV-4 Travis, Brent 184.89
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 183.67
Great NW Air Race 6/13/10 RV Blue RV-4 Travis, Brent 182.65
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-4 Harris, Winn 181.60
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 180.33
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 179.23
Grace Flight 2008 10/5/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 178.51
Taylor 100 2009 3/16/09 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 178.02
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Blue RV-4 Shoup, Doug 177.64
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 176.54
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 174.92
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 174.17
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 174.12
Taylor 150 4/11/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 174.11
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 173.76
Pagosa Springs 2010 9/26/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 173.65
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 173.00
Colorado 150 2009 7/23/09 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 172.90
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 172.78
Texoma 100, 2011 4/16/11 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 170.51
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 170.43
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Red RV-4 Smith, Dwight 169.88
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 169.78
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 RV Red RV-4 Archord, Jim 169.17
Sulphur Springs 130 7/18/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 168.84
Colorado 150 2009 7/23/09 RV Blue RV-4 Hall, Jeff 168.74
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 167.83
Pagosa Springs 2010 9/26/10 RV Red RV-4 Faubion, Robert 167.80
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Red RV-4 Faubion, Robert 167.44
West Texas 100, 2007 10/7/07 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 166.40
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 166.29
Colorado 150, 2008 6/29/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 165.65
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Blue RV-4 Martin, Matt 164.16
Tennessee Valley Air Race IV 10/29/11 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 163.35
Denton 100 2008 6/15/08 RV Red RV-4 Bruggers, Ken 162.71
Taylor 150 4/11/10 RV Red RV-4 Faubion, Robert 162.24
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Red RV-4 Smith, Dwight 158.39
AirVenture Cup (TH) 2011 7/25/11 RV Red RV-4 Crawford, Tony 155.55
Top of the Chesapeake 7/11/10 RV Red RV-4 Winkelman, Steve 155.39
Texoma 100 4/25/10 RV Red RV-4 Benton, Cam 132.78
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. Unfortunately, as much as I want a Rocket or a fast 4, my wife is **** bent on sitting next to me. She wants to be able to experience flying with me, not just be in the back. I guess that's nothing I should complain about. I'm very luck ti have a wife who is excited to sit next to me and help.

I guess that means that I'm just going to have to buy Smokey's RVX!

Seriously, maybe I should start poking around the RV6 section. Maybe I'll make enough money someday to have a 6 along with a 3!
 
The RV-6's are no slouch. With the slightly shorter wing and smaller rudder, they can be quite fast if built light and equipped well. I'm still looking at an RV-6 as my first very own RV and if the particular one I'm looking at hasn't sold by the time I finish saving up the desired down payment and secure financing, I'll have a 160hp O-320 RV-6 with fixed pitch wood prop that has been known to easily cruise at more that 190mph IAS.
 
RV-6 you say, well here are their speeds

Here are all the RV-6 race speeds sorted by speed:

Race Date Class Aircraft Type Pilot Speed Kts
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 194.56
Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 192.80
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 188.36
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.52
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Blue RV-6 Attaway, Robbie 186.47
Top of the Chesapeake II 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-6 Reed, Gary 186.45
AirCap 200 8/24/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.16
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-6 Berry, Damon 185.11
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.83
Texoma 100 2009 5/31/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 183.81
Taylor 150, 2011 4/2/11 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.41
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Blue RV-6 Brooks, Chris 183.15
Taylor 100 2009 3/16/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 182.35
Indy Air Race 8/13/11 RV Blue RV-6 Reed, Gary 181.98
Tennessee 150 (Tullahoma) 9/10/11 RV Blue RV-6 Brooks, Chris 181.70
Tennessee Valley Air Race IV 10/29/11 RV Blue RV-6 Brooks , Chris 181.50
BCAF 150, 2008 5/4/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 181.45
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 181.23
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 181.22
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 180.72
Texoma 100, 2011 4/16/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 180.64
Sulphur Springs 130 7/18/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 180.62
Taylor 100 2009 3/16/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 180.43
AirCap 200 8/24/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 180.28
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 180.26
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 179.99
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 179.83
Taylor 150, 2011 4/2/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 179.82
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 179.45
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.98
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Red RV-6A Klusmier, Larry 178.90
Colorado 150, 2008 6/29/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.63
Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 178.53
Colorado 150 2009 7/23/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 178.52
Tennessee Valley Air Race IV 10/29/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 178.49
2011 West Tesas 100 6/18/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 178.47
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 178.04
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Red RV-6 Weisgerber, David 177.92
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.52
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.43
Big Sky Air Race 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.43
Cleveland Texas Air Race 10/15/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.25
BCAF 150, 2008 5/4/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.23
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 177.05
Grace Flight 2009 10/4/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 176.90
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.86
Colorado 150, 2008 6/29/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 176.66
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 176.46
Rocket 100 2009 11/22/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 176.35
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.33
Northwoods 100 10/8/11 RV Blue RV-6 Barnes, Jeff 176.13
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.93
Grace Flight 2008 10/5/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.66
Taylor 150 4/11/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.56
Tennessee 150 (Tullahoma) 9/10/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.32
Denton 100 2008 6/15/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.11
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 175.03
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 174.22
Texoma 100 2009 5/31/09 RV Blue RV-6 McCright, Dennis 174.17
Pagosa Springs 2010 9/26/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 173.42
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 173.02
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 172.62
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 171.11
Texoma 100 4/25/10 RV Blue RV-6 Waggoner, Mark 170.82
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 169.93
Wichita 300 7/17/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 169.91
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 169.73
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 RV Blue RV-6A Kukura, Dave 169.62
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 168.72
Pagosa Springs 100 9/24/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 168.62
Big Muddy, Carbondale, IL 6/4/11 RV Red RV-6 Weisgerber, David 167.82
West Texas 100, 2007 10/7/07 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 167.20
AirCap 200 8/24/08 RV Red RV-6 Smith, Jim 166.21
Big Sky Air Race 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-6A Klewin, Kurt 165.48
BCAF 2011 4/30/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 164.94
Cleveland Texas Air Race 10/15/11 RV Red RV-6 Behrends, Steve 164.72
AirVenture Cup (TH) 2011 7/25/11 RV Blue RV-6 Barnes, Jeff 164.24
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 RV Blue RV-6A Nymeyer, Rance 164.12
Rocket 100, 2011 11/19/11 RV Blue RV-6A Moore, Mike 163.43
Texoma 100, 2011 4/16/11 RV Red RV-6 Smith, Jim 163.38
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Red RV-6A Phillips, Mark 162.66
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 161.75
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 RV Blue RV-6 Katz, Paul 159.73
Cleveland Texas Air Race 10/15/11 RV Red RV-6 Bivens, Darrell 159.35
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Lee, Ron 158.66
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A Bivens, Darrell 154.86
Great NW Air Race 6/13/10 RV Red RV-6A Hungelmann, Bill 152.37
Memorial 130, Terrell, TX 5/28/11 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 149.97
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A McGinnis, Patrick 144.92
AirVenture Cup 2009 7/27/09 RV Red RV-6 Campbell Steve & John Popel 138.33
Texoma 100 4/25/10 RV Blue RV-6 Thompson, Mike 130.60

Bob Axsom
 
There are faster RV's.

jhzlnc.jpg
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Here is a picture of mine with the cowl off. My personal best recorded speed run in a two way average was 235 mph. It was done at 3500 ft msl on a 90 degree day. Besides the sliding canopy I have made minimal airframe changes basically just Hertzler wheel pants and Saylor gear leg fairings. I do have a custom engine and modified induction system. My engine puts out in excess of 220 hp so that obviously helps. Dave Anders has set the bar very high but I'd like to think I'm in the top 10 anyway. Oh just to stir the pot I have outrun a Rocket before but he had a stock engine and a MT 3 blade, very smooth but slow.
 
Slowest

I bet I have got the slowest....... its been in my workshop for almost 20 years with only the odd excursion into my garden for rigging.

Hopefully this will be the year it takes flight........... just before the world is due to end............. hmmm, I should have concentrated on the 4 not all the other ones I built.
 
Slowest

I bet I have got the slowest....... its been in my workshop for almost 20 years with only the odd excursion into my garden for rigging.

Hopefully this will be the year it takes flight........... just before the world is due to end............. hmmm, I should have concentrated on the 4 not all the other ones I built.
 
Are You a betting man ??

Bring your RV to Fallbrook along with $ 500.00. If I can't do 200 knots you can have my $500.00 if I can... well u know. I'm in the middle of building a new panel so lets set it up for Spring and see whats in the air ? BTW my plane is right at 1025 lbs. The canopy did add some weight and in the wrong place..aft.
 
Are You a betting man ??

Bring your RV to Fallbrook along with $ 500.00. If I can't do 200 knots ( ie 230 mph ) you can have my $500.00 if I can... well u know. I'm in the middle of building a new panel so lets set it up for Spring and see whats in the air ? BTW my plane is right at 1025 lbs. The canopy did add some weight and in the wrong place..aft.
 
Neal@F14 said:
The RV-6's are no slouch. With the slightly shorter wing and smaller rudder, they can be quite fast if built light and equipped well. I'm still looking at an RV-6 as my first very own RV and if the particular one I'm looking at hasn't sold by the time I finish saving up the desired down payment and secure financing, I'll have a 160hp O-320 RV-6 with fixed pitch wood prop that has been known to easily cruise at more that 190mph IAS.
Click to expand...
Tracy Saylor always claimed the 6 was the fastest airframe. You have a clipped wing fastback already with a smoother airflow over the cowling without the cheeks. I know He was faster than my 4.
 
Relativity...

Neal/David,

Fastest RV4? Theory or reality?...have to agree on the RV6 fuselage being fast. I'm a three-peat offender with RV4/HR2 and RVX numbers to compare. History has proven RV speed claims to be suspect. Bob Axsom has carefully posted SARL race results to bring more reality to the subject. His 6A with very innovative speed mods is one of the fastest RV's out there. I recommend you race your Four in class and see how it stacks up against the rest of the world.

My experience shows that the "200 Knot Wall" can only be breached with lots of HP, 100LL and attention to detail. All said, the reality of race numbers prove Tom M's EVO Rocket, Bob M's "Super Six" IO540 powered RV6 and Jeff B's HR3 are the fastest RV-types on the planet. (they are VERY fast)

Speed records, like fame are fleeting...
Smokey


My RVX, a RV6 fuselage with clipped RV4 wings and RV4 rudder/elevator. (945 lbs 150/Catto)is the fastest of my 3 (per HP) at 75% power.
 
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Racing RV-4's

I can count on one finger the number of -4's I have encountered at a race event. I would love to see one of you really fast -4's enter a race and post a really fast speed. ( other than Anders)
:cool:
CM SARL rv red top speed holder.
 
When I take that 2600 RPM prop off of mine I will do some of the races.

I need to clean the baffles (lots of leaks) and put a fairing under the horizontal stab (it's open to the breeze now). That should be worth a few KTS I would think?

I cruise at 8GPH at 157KTS at 7500 now. I'd like to get that to 165KTS.

Think it's doable with a 160HP 1000 lbs RV-4?
 
I have Robbie Attaways RV6. It is a fairly fast 6 and as mentioned proof they can move along nicely. I switched back to Vans spec main gear wheels and pressure pants which costs me a couple of knots from how Robbie had the aircraft set up however I can still indicate 185 Knots on a cold day at 2000 AGL. I need to get some calibration runs done to insure the AS indicator is accurate however its very close looking at GS. Normal cruise for me is 182 to 184 knots true with Fuel FLow between 9 and 10.8 gallons an hour depending on Altitude (6500 to 10500).
If you want the side by side configuration 180 knots is certainly possible in a six.

George
 
Mine is the fastest ( In my mind anyway)

Hi All
I thought this thread is about RV4s and how fast they are!! I have not run into a -6 with the same power as my -4 that was faster. Ever!! My -4 has a lyc O320 E2D with P-mags Catto 3 blade, empty weight is 945lbs. I routinely cruise over 170 KTAS, 8500? WOT @ 8.5 GPH, not bad for a little red airplane.
What are you numbers?
 
The races scheduled for 2012

I went to www.sportairrace.org calendar of events and found the current list of races (note: the Big Country Air Fest & Air Race is flying out of Dyess AFB this year and the DD forms must be processed):

Texoma 100 Air Race
31 March, 2012
Sherman, TX (KGYI)

Taylor 150 Air Race
14 April, 2012
Taylor, TX (T74)

Hill Country Air Race
21 April, 2012
Llano, TX (KAQO)

Big Country Air Fest & Air Race
28 April, 2012
Abilene, TX (KDYS)

Lone Star Air Rally
19 May, 2012
Galveston, TX (KGLS)

Memorial Day Air Race
26 May, 2012
Terrell, TX (KTRL)

Big Muddy Air Race
9 June, 2012
Carbondale, IL (KMDH)

Great Northwest Air Race
16 June, 2012
Ephrata, WA (KEPH)

Big Sky Air Race
7 July, 2012
Three Forks, MT (9S5)

Indy Air Race
11 August, 2012
Indianapolis, IN (KTYQ)

Pappy Boyington Memorial Cup
18 August, 2012
Coeur d'Alene, ID (KCOE)

Limestone County Airman's Classic
1 September, 2012
Mexia, TX (KLXY)

Ozark Air Race
8 September, 2012
Cassville, MO (94K)

Pagosa Springs Air Race
22 September, 2012
Pagosa Springs, CO (KPSO)

Tennessee Air Race
29 September, 2012
Tullahoma, TN (KTHA)

Northwoods Air Race
6 October, 2012
Waupaca, WI (KPCZ)

Cleveland Air Race Revival
13 October, 2012
Cleveland, TX (6R3)

Thunderbird Air Race
13 October, 2012
Wickenburg, AZ (E25)

Maryland Air Race
20 October, 2012
Maryland (TBD)

Jasper Air Race
27 October, 2012
Jasper, TX (KJAS)

Rocket 100 Air Race
17 November, 2012
Taylor, TX (T74)
 
This has turned into a fun thread!!

Well, speed talk is always fun, but now we have speed bets, and "mine is the fastest" claims, and great fodder for "big fish" stories over cold ones at the end of the day...and I mean that in the most positive way...the clink your mugs and say "man, that was fun!" hangar flying no matter how the race turned out kinda stuff that makes flying great! (Of course, just one of the many ways!)

Interesting discussion of the RV-6 shape. Ya know, that Mark Frederick guy has told me many times that my 6 (any 6) has a great shape...perhaps a better shape in some ways than a Rocket! :eek:. I found that interesting, a bit shocking, hard to believe even! Perhaps it has aerodynamic advantages in the windscreen-canopy-upper fuselage interface over a tipover HRII (which are still so cool), but over a FB F1...not so sure. The wider frontal area would seem a disadvantage, but then again, the fuselage narrows somewhat quickly about mid-chord or so...so who knows...F1Boss may know what he's talking about after all! ;)

Smokey, not sure I can lay claim to the credit you gave me...pretty sure Dave's RV-4 has the fastest recorded level flight top-end (260+ I believe). Just before Airventure Cup 2010, John Huft and I were talking about Dave's 4, and John looked me square in the eye, smiled, and said, "you know, he will whoop your butt!" I smiled back, winked, and said, "we'll see"...then looked over my shoulder for 300+ miles! (I was faster because I gambled and went hi, and was rewarded with tailwinds...we still have no side-by-side runs yet...and I wouldn't put my pink slip on the line...yet!)

But Steve, if your bride is set on sitting SBS with you, as has been said earlier, you can get in a nice 6 at a good price, and all the speed mods out there are yours for the trying over time, and you'll be rewarded with speed, comfort and a spouse-pleasing ride! Mine was fast out of the box via the Enzo Ferrari school of thought (aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines), but I'm trying to learn from guys like Ax and Huft and Anders to find out just how good that -6 shape really is! (Currently baffled by new baffles and induction inlet stuff). I love Rockets too, but you will not be sorry in a 6 (and you will love the insurance delta...as much of a bummer as I find that to say as a big Rocket fan!). So go for it, and then help push the envelope of "who has the fastest 6"!

Finally, for Dave Duffer and "Buko" Murdock: Boys, we gotta get you guys to a race sometime. What Chris said is true...not enough 4s coming out. He and Cam are fast, and Brent Travis and Robert Faubington are out in their 4s too. I would love to party with you guys in Montana and Wickenburg...what say we get some more "Best Coast" ;) RVs out there for some fun! I'd love to see what a 220HP -4 will do! (and I'd not take that bet Duff-ster...bring it out and run for fun...love the flames BTW!)

Fun Stuff! (And hey JJ, your 4 looks awesome!!)

Cheers,
Bob
 
RV4 vs RVX

Guys,
I love this thread! Fastest RV4? I have been blessed more hours watching the miles go by underneath an RV4's wings than anyone out there, maybe...Properly rigged and faired with the right prop and engine, the RV4 is very fast, and more importantly slower, (I live on a short strip) than any of the other RV's. Remember this, Van set the RV4 VNE at 210 MPH/178 Knots. Dave Anders RV4 is far and away the fastest I have seen. When observed up close it's a masterpiece of attention to detail and hard work. However comma, it cruises well beyond Van's design VNE. The HR2 is basically a modified RV4 with a posted VNE of 270 MPH/240 Knots (I saw 240 KIAS once in my HR2). Safe? Maybe another discussion for another day.

Now, for comparison's sake I have the unique opportunity to compare two airplanes in one, my RVX. It has RV4 wings and tail, same incidence and dihedral, vice 5 more degrees up and down aileron and elevator. RV6 fuselage mated with identical span (110" fuse to tip) but the RV4 ailerons are 53" (vs 48" for the stock 6). Control feel and aerobatics? Best ever. (that compared with 213 other RV's/Rockets I have flown) Speed: Compared to my speedy RV4 with identical horsepower it is faster, period. I have only flown alongside a few other RV's one 180HP the other 200HP for comparison. The X surprised me with the new Catto prop nearly reaching 180 Knots flat out. For what it's worth.

RV6 fuselage faster? Who knows? From everything I've seen in 20+ years of flying RV's the Fastback RV4 and Harmon Rocket post the fastest numbers. Shoehorn a 220HP engine into a beat-up, poorly faired, improperly rigged RV4 (I've done just that) and it will cruise at VNE.

Bob, I'll enroll and try to make it to one of your SARL events this year, I promise :)

Smokey

PS:Personally, I'm just thankful for the freedoms we enjoy in this country. I've seen lots of the alternative...
 
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FWIW averaged Bob's numbers for RV-4 and RV-6 speeds in races, threw out the 130 - 140 mph ones at the bottom of the list and got:

RV-4, sample size 43, average speed 173.1
RV-6, sample size 89, average speed 172.9

Dave
 
Feel the need, the need for...

Dave,
You have a Monocoupe? Very cool! OK, thread drift aside, talk about cool airplanes, talk about speed, Woo Hoo, Don Luscombe's speedster is still one of my all time favorites! When one of the few surviving "clipwing" 110 specials came to SNF from Miami way back in the late 80's it looked fast sitting still, still does. Every time I go through the St. Louis airport I make sure I walk by Charles Lindberg's personal Monocoupe hanging from the ceiling, exactly the way he left it.

The McCullicoupes carry on the tradition quite well I should say :) Love to hear more about it off line.
Thanks for sharing...

Smokey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vm1y7P2-_0
 
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The '89 160 hp short-legged RV-4 that Smokey delivered to me is very fast as well. I've only done one real speed test with it so far when an RV-8 driver wanted to see how fast I could go in the -4. At 7500' I topped out indicating a steady 164 KIAS. I don't have OAT in it so just using a few of the rule of thumb methods for calculating TAS, it was better than 185 KTAS. It has a Hartzel c/s prop and the Sam James "Holy Cowl" on it. Looks like I'd better get on the stick and sign up for SARL too then...
 
RV-4/6 versus Monocoupe

Now that would be a race. Chris, congratulations on turning in some very impressive speeds with consistency. IMHO, these kinds of races are an excellent way to test the capabilities of a plane/pilot combination.

It would be kind of interesting to see a race between a Monocoupe 110 Special (clipwing) with the Warner 185, versus a comparably horsepowered RV. What's interesting is they both have a 23' wingspan, about the same length and weight.

nc2064-8.jpg


Who owns that RV behind the clipwing? This is NC2064 based at Franklin, PA. An interesting contrast in designs.

In the 1933 Miami air races, John Livingston flew his Warner 145 hp clipwing in the unlimited race, 5 laps around a 30 mile triangle course, tree top level around pylons, and had a speed of 191.363 mph. He placed third.

A couple of posts in this thread about the RV6 fuselage versus the RV4, especially the frontal area. The clipwings were fast as stink, but I never thought the frontal area was that clean or efficient. But, I'm no expert on this stuff.

n36yfront.jpg


Check out the forward visibility and that's in level flight. Good thing the entire cabin roof is plexiglass so you can see in a turn.

There are a couple of experimental clipwings being built up and maybe one day we can see how the race goes.

Dave
 
That would be great!

I have talked to Jim Younkin (several years ago) about the AirVenture Cup Race but he has no interest in it. It would be good to see that #40 all white high winged Mr. Mulligan replica participate.

Bob Axsom
 
Clipwing

I believe the current Clipwing population exceeds the number the factory originally built. Some are built from scratch, some use 90 fuselages. Several of the factory clipwings were destroyed and then reincarnated from the paperwork.
N2064 was built by Fred Ludke. He flew airshows with it for several years. It is now owned by Richard Smith of Franklin PA.
John Livingston was the designer of the Clipwing. With help from the factory he reworked the standard 110 into the clipwing.
John Livingston was the inspiration for Richard Bach's Johnathon Livingston Seagull. Livingston, in his late 70's??? had a heart attack while flying a Cassutt. He landed at Lauderdale Executive Airport and parked in front of the fire station. The fire personnel lifted him out of the airplane and he passed shortly after.
Another pilot who made the clipwing famous was Woody Edmonson. He competed in Aerobatic Contests in the Miami era in the early 50's. He also flew a lot of airshows, sometimes doing three shows at three different airports without landing at the first two. Edmonsons "Little Butch" is in the Air and Space Museum.
An interesting current owner is Red Larelle of Lafayette La who owns a clipwing and a Mullicoupe. Larelles name is often mentioned in the James Lee Burke novels.
 
Hot airplane for sure

Thanks for posting the pics of the 'coupe. If I recall correctly somebody was stock piling warner engines and many were lost in a fire. I saw someone do a show in one at the 1980 aerobatic championships...however I was simtten with the design well before that.

Cm
 
One of a kind...

Dave,
Ditto the thanks for posting Monocoupe pictures, I am a big fan of the design. I realize this is thread drift at it's finest but the speed and efficiency built into the Monocoupe in the early 30's helped "shape" aerodynamics (including RV 's) today. My RVX for only 150HP will approach 180KIAS at S.L., not too shabby. Today's aircraft all benefit from the pioneers of the early race days. Imagine that the Monocoupe off the factory floor was faster than any of the Military fighters of that time.

I fell in love with this one of a kind "Monocoupe inspired" M-14P powered design by the Kimball brothers for John McColloch (famous Monocoupe guy) at Sun N Fun several years ago.
Gotta love it!

Smokey
RVX
formerly HR2, RV4 F-16
F16 missed, alot



McCullocoupe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UcJVWC3Iv0
Gotta love a scuba tank air-start!
 
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OK, I'll weigh in

For the record, Mark Anders is one of my heros. I can't believe he got that much speed out of a -4, even if he did have 220 hp (or so.) I'm kind of a geek about drag reduction; I take Hoerner's "Fluid Dynamic Drag" on vacation for a good read. I have not implemented more than about 1% of what I know.

I raced in 4 SARL sanctioned races, and it has been a great experience. I Highly recommend it to anyone, even if you don't think you have a "fast " airplane. It makes you work not only on the speed of your airplane, but your flying technique as well. I would be the first to say that airplane speed is important, but so are flying skills, and he who weaves all over the place will lose.

I have an o-360 carburated -4 with a fixed pitch Catto prop. I am seeing about 165 KIAS at 8000 density altitude. This translates into speeds of 214 to 218 mph as measured when I am racing. I haven't done much in the way of mods, just taped up the seams when I race. I did put a fairing in for the outlet cooling air so it would flow more smoothly. There are a number of things I would like to do, but my work schedule won't allow.

Great thread, keep it up guys!
 
My RV-4FB Finally Attended A SARL Race!

Unfortunately Mr Axsom wasn't there to see it but I finally made it to the Texoma 100. What a blast. Timing worked out and I was able to attend in my RV-4 Fastback. This is just my 'daily cruiser' so equipped with a carbureted O-360 with Slick mags and CS prop and I simply flew up there and 'raced' with no additional prep or planning but was happy with the results for my first time outing.

Race 23 JJ Johnson RV4 RV Blue 00:42:53.000 216.95 188.52

I've often said my RV was faster than standard so it was fun to get an unbiased third party opinion in the form of a published race result.

Wished Bob could have seen it but his spirit was apparent!
 
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