What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Alternator Reliability Poll

On your current airplane, how reliable is/was your alternator

  • I have used an automotive alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours.

    Votes: 140 25.5%
  • I have used an automotive alternator that failed within the first 250 hours.

    Votes: 32 5.8%
  • I have used a Plane Power alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours.

    Votes: 172 31.4%
  • I have used a Plane Power alternator that failed within the first 250 hours.

    Votes: 74 13.5%
  • I have used a B&C alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours.

    Votes: 127 23.2%
  • I have used a B&C that failed within the first 250 hours.

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Total voters
    548
alternator failure

I went though probably two dozen of the first generation alternators from Vans. Used to carry one in the plane with me cause I couldn't get through three weeks of flying on the road without losing the alternator. The alternator that I have now has around 2500 hours on it and is still working fine it is the PP. I just put it on the third engine. I did have to change the connector as it was brittle and crumbled when I took it out. My install has a cooling blast tube. I torture these big time as we spend a lot of time in slow flight. Mike
 
DENSO

2300 hours on a small Denso Automotive alternator over 16 years. No failures, never removed from aircraft. No cooling blast tube either.
 
I have a Plane Power 60 amp Model AL12-EI60/V (PP) it has failed at 85 hours. I purchased a new IO-360 engine from Vans fall of 2013 and started flying June of 2016. The PP came with the engine and has approximately 9 calendar months of flying time. I called PP and I was told the 2 year warranty is from time of purchase and they would not replace it. This is the only company I dealt with that has enforced this policy.

If I was in the building phase, I would not purchase anything from this company. The alternator was out of warranty before my first engine start. :mad:


I bought my 2 B&C alternators (40amp up front and 20amp on the rear) together with 2 B&C external voltage regulators in 2007 and the plane did not have an engine start until 2015. I have 160 hours on both alternators now and no problems.

However one of the B&C voltage regulators was faulty out of the box and I sent it back to B&C for checking in 2015 after the first engine start. They found the fault and sent me a new replacement unit at no cost (even paid for the freight to Australia). They effectively replaced the regulator 8 years after I bought it....just amazing customer service.

B&C are a company of the highest integrity and their alternators are extremely reliable. As others have pointed out they're not cheap but no-one else comes close when it comes to reliability. The poll is showing that B&C have a 1% failure rate in the first 250 hours while Plane Power have a 24% failure rate in the first 250 hours.
 
I have an externally regulated ND 45 amp on my O-320. 270 hours with no problems. No blast tube.

I would not use an internally regulated alternator, as the VR seems to be the most common component to fail on the older alternators. I believe that it is difficult to produce an electronic component that will survive in those conditions. The external regulator can be made much larger with and lives in a cooler environment.

Larry
 
Vans nipendenso 35amp alternator from the late 90's & external regulator. Blast tube installed. No failures in 400 + hours.
 
Post-failure experience with Plane Power

At about 800 hours tach time, 950 hrs hobbs time, my Planepower alternator dropped to 1/2 output (26-28 Amp) maximum output enroute to OSH last week. I spoke to PlanePower's reps at OSH last week (including the alternator product line lead). Here's the summary:

- PlanePower suggests it's either a diode failure, or (more likely) a failure of part of the stator (due to a known issue with PlanePower alternators manufactured in the past).
- PlanePower won't repair this alternator.
- PlanePower won't repair the new version that they currently sell for RV's. "It's not worth our time."
- PlanePower won't offer any consideration or discount for those who purchased an alternator that failed.

This is consistent with other reports I've heard regarding Hartzell Engine Technology (PlanePower owner) customer service.

So I spoke to B & C about their alternator. Yes, they offer repair service. Yes, they'll overhaul or IRAN their alternator.

I bought a B&C alternator and external controller at OSH. I'd be better off right now if I'd just spent the extra money on a B&C in the first place.
 
My mentor and my avionics guru finally talked me into upgrading my Vans Nippon Denso internally regulated 60 amp alternator (no longer available from Van). The impetus was some new and expensive ADS-B in/out equipment I had recently installed.

I also was overdue on replacing the alternator belt (12 years old). So while the prop was removed I took the opportunity to make the alternator change.

The Vans ND unit worked fine for 715 hours without issue. I guess it's just random for those who've had failures.

So a new B&C 40 amp unit is now installed along with a new belt. If this thing fails in the first few hours, I will be really upset :(

BTW, the old alternator belt, which looked fine viewed from the outside, did show signs of cracking when I flexed it from the inside out. So I suggest that 12 years is a bit too long to leave it in place.

Happy flying.

Chris
 
"I spoke with Hartzell who claims that this is a rare issue, maybe just 2 or 3. I also confirmed that the newer version is the same as the older version."

That's interesting, maybe they just haven't heard about the 4 x PP 60amp units I am replacing (I have the serial numbers as I installed them) as a result of failures.
2 are due to the Volt Regulator (earlier models had themexternally attached) falling off the back plates at 200-300 hours, the other 2 had max amp ouput (50-60) with 1 found with 4 diodes failed & mine has to be tested yet to determine the cause. As the fault happened outback Oz I fly back home on # 2 Alt (PP FS-14B) I am now really concerned about it too.

Denial by any manufacturer is something I can not tolerate especially when customers ask my opinion about a particular product, needless to say I have subsequently bought 5 x B&C units.

IMO we should be advising anyone we know of the reported proven problems with critical to flight/engine products.

Be careful out there.
 
Alternator

Had 2 of the 30 amp Honda Civic aleternators, first one from vans, second from a parts store, both removed in working condition but with excessive bearing play. The first one lasted about 200 hours, the second one about 150. Replaced with b&c alternator, this is still in n service with over 500 hours.

Bryan
 
I can't add it to the poll, but my PlanePower 60a alternator just quit after 261hrs. Internal wiring failure due to movement of the stator according to the technician.
 
I have a Plane Power Alternator on my RV8 with close to 750 hours. I'm considering a change to an electronically dependent ignition. I will change my alternator to B&C first. I recently install a B&C starter and I'm very pleased. B&C has a reputation for reliability.
 
quick fix voltage regulator

don't know if this helps anyone, but my PP alternator crapped out at 190 hours.

had a loose wire into 60 amp breaker but after a quick check of alternator, I found it to be the Voltage Regulator,

you can buy the part from aircraft spruce for 89 bucks. Plane power no. is 11-1043 regulator, brush assembly.
Spruce no is 07-17968.

Tim gault, Plane power tech guy, said more times than not, its the regulator.
a quick check on the alternator is to energize the field by flipping the master switch. with belt off pulley, rotate pulley and if you feel resistance or tugging as you turn, you have a magnetic field. after that, chances are either the bridge rectifier or regulator, once you remove the regulator/brush ***. its easy to do a quick check on the stator as well. the rectifier is a bit more tricky as you have to carefully straighten the 4 wire contacts to remove for check. if everything checks out, its the regulator.

hope this helps.
 
joining the club

Well, I'll join the list of folks with an alternator failure...more specifically a voltage regulator failure. I have the Vans 60A with internal voltage regulator. About 20 minutes after take off I started to hear a wavering pitch in my headset. Checked the engine instruments on my Dynon, and sure enough...voltage and amps were all over the place. Saw voltage as high as 19 volts, and amps (normally around 3 to 5) jumping up to the 30-40 range. I turned off the field, and things settled out nicely...12.8 volts and -4 amps. The battery held its voltage well; on the ground 25 minutes later with 12.5 volts still showing. Now time to figure out how best to fix it.

BTW...170 hours on the alternator with a blast tube.

Papa
 
Plane Power AL12-EI60/V failure at 223 hours

Symptom with the primary, belt-driven alternator was its flickering panel light, along with a noticeable (new) whining in audio while Alternator was online.

Thankfully the 30A backup case-mount alternator was still putting out a solid 13.6V, so no immediate concern about an imminent lack of electrons. Even though the primary alternator appeared to be putting out 14.4V, with the whining and flickering light it was decided to go back to the hanger, pull the cowl and take a look.

All wiring secure, connector leads looked solid -- re-attached and ground-tested with no change in symptoms. Pulled alternator and took it to the bench. Found that one of the four winding leads (the one farthest from the Alternator output post) was broken just below the plastic stand-off that mates with the housing. All else looked fine; but we can add this PP alternator to the failure count, with broken internal wiring as the culprit.

open


open


open


open


open


Michael
2009 RV-7a, Barrett I-O 360, Paisley's EFII & Bus Manager, Dual ECU's, Batteries, and Alternators
 
Last edited:
Plane Power 60A Failure

My Plane Power 60A internally regulated alternator failed at 2 hrs ground run on a new engine and airframe. Runaway alternator which then blew the field fuse. Blast tube installed. The B&C 20A BU with external regulator worked fine. Took the PP in to a local alternator repair shop that found the regulator failed as well as a rectifier. Repaired for $100 and working fine since (about 90 hrs). If it goes again will replace with a B&C.
Al
 
B&C regulator failure

Failed at 200 hours as evidenced by voltage alert light coming on. B&C repaired it at no cost to me.
 
Last edited:
not sure what the conclusion is on this thread? Or if someone is compiling the data?

I just experienced what I believe is Alternator failure. Purchased RV9A on October with 404 hours. I now have 454 and on flight yesterday - about 15 mins in I noticed Current was acting a bit strange. about 30 mins later I started getting Voltage Low Warnings. Current started going to Zero and Negative. Landed uneventful into Bremerton and did a few ground runs after checking wires all seemed tight.

I'll have to get back up there tomorrow and poke around a bit more and maybe change the alternator (I happen to have a brand new spare).

Alternator is Vans original 60A with 454 hours.
 
I have just had my second failure at around 900 odd hours and now at 1380, so not even 500 on the last one.

VPX starts shutting things down, so one wonders what the high frequency spikes are damaging along the way. :mad:

B&C about to be installed.
 
I have just had my second failure at around 900 odd hours and now at 1380, so not even 500 on the last one.

VPX starts shutting things down, so one wonders what the high frequency spikes are damaging along the way. :mad:

Two failures on which brand/type?
 
Mantra or Pixie Dust?

Good poll Steve. B&C (alt and reg) working flawlessly after first 2,500 hours. Standard installation no cooling hose and still on original belt. Bought new in 2007, flying since 2011.

Vlad, you need to document what you do special with your alternator so we can get the same endurance, especially with belt.
 
I voted way back when, made it past 250 hours with my 50 amp automotive, but it failed this month after just over 300 hours (internal voltage regulator failure). But, per the plan, I was able to go to NAPA the next morning when they opened at 7am and get a replacement for free (lifetime warranty) that actually works better than the first one per the test label on it (and no more low voltage warnings at idle).
 
The couple of local places that "rebuild" alternators locally are getting a bad rep as the voltage regulators they use are failing quickly.

They both claim that they are buying the only available regulators. Myself, and a couple of colleagues that still are in the automotive business all say you can never trust any of the rebuilt alternators, starters, PS pumps from any of the big retailers. You might get lucky, but on an airplane?
 
The couple of local places that "rebuild" alternators locally are getting a bad rep as the voltage regulators they use are failing quickly.

They both claim that they are buying the only available regulators. Myself, and a couple of colleagues that still are in the automotive business all say you can never trust any of the rebuilt alternators, starters, PS pumps from any of the big retailers. You might get lucky, but on an airplane?

Totally agree. Unless you go right to Denso for a rebuilt (I listed a source here before), you'll usually get El Cheapo offshore regulators which are at the center of most failures. One of the popular EXP aircraft brands doesn't use OE Denso parts either and look at the failure rates in this poll.
 
One of the popular EXP aircraft brands doesn't use OE Denso parts either and look at the failure rates in this poll.

The popular Plane Power 60 amp appears to be a custom version of this unit....

https://www.unipoint.com.tw/product_info_page.php?p_id=508

...with its #662 regulator modified by the addition of a jumper (Unipoint part number 6621).

Unipoint is a Chinese division of Bosch.

http://www.bosch-aa.com.cn/en/internet/parts/news_and_extras/latest_news/unipoint_press_011211.html
 
Last edited:
I have a 40A Denso mini that has 160 hours. It had an early failure: The plastic Brush boxes were warped and stuck the brushes so eventually they lost contact with the com rings. a few bux for a new piece of plastic, and the alternator has been flawless.
But!! Van's light weight alternator bracket for Narrow Deck cases was too light, it cracked and had to be replaced with a heavier Lycoming part. Might be some balance issue, or the Gates brand belt might be uneven...?
Keeping the weight down and the reliability up is a challenge.
 
Update, the first one went around 1000 hrs, that was a bearing failing and the rotor struck the winding. The second one, also a PP, failed at 360 hours. I have not yet disassembled it, but guess it will be a broken wire from one of the windings.
 
Just a reminder, this thread started as a poll asking what alternator you've used, and your experience with it. Poll choices were automotive, Plane Power, or B&C (no option for Van's old offering, which was automotive, in, IIRC, a couple of different flavors).

When you post that 'it' lasted x hours, you may know which one you're talking about, but the rest of us likely don't.
 
Just a reminder, this thread started as a poll asking what alternator you've used, and your experience with it. Poll choices were automotive, Plane Power, or B&C (no option for Van's old offering, which was automotive, in, IIRC, a couple of different flavors).

When you post that 'it' lasted x hours, you may know which one you're talking about, but the rest of us likely don't.

I have it on good authority from the originator of this poll :D:

The "Automotive" category was intended to include Van's (non PP/ non B&C) alternators in the poll, because Van's originally offered alternators were, in fact, off-the-shelf automotive alternators.

The poll probably could have been broken down further to define the specific manufacturer (or point of purchase) of the automotive alternators, but I was just trying to get to some general conclusions. 3 categories seemed sufficient for that. Once that is understood, each can draw their own conclusions.
 
Last edited:
Or none of the above!

I had a used aircraft alternator - DDOF xxxx - that came with the Cessna my engine came from. It ran for 15 years & 900 hours with no problems. It failed 3 years ago and has just failed again (possibly because of a poor overhaul?)

B&C next, I prefer externally regulated.

P
 
Van's supplied Plane Power 60 amp alternator failed at 115 hours, installed on IO-390. I suspect the internal voltage regulator. Disappointed to say the least.:mad:

Greg Novotny
RV-14a N14ZP
KTIW Tacoma Narrows, WA
 
Van's supplied Plane Power 60 amp alternator failed at 115 hours, installed on IO-390. I suspect the internal voltage regulator. Disappointed to say the least.:mad:

Greg Novotny
RV-14a N14ZP
KTIW Tacoma Narrows, WA

Greg, are we to assume you already checked the connector as it is a common failure mode?

Did PP honor the warranty?
 
I had 900 hours in my RV-4 with off the shelf 35-40 amp ND, internally regulated, no issue before selling the plane.

Vibration and heat should be considered. Many folks should consider dynamic balance of their engine. Some exhaust types come close to alternator. Vibration and heat can reduce the life of the alternator.
 
I had 900 hours in my RV-4 with off the shelf 35-40 amp ND, internally regulated, no issue before selling the plane.

Vibration and heat should be considered. Many folks should consider dynamic balance of their engine. Some exhaust types come close to alternator. Vibration and heat can reduce the life of the alternator.

Good to see you back George. I've also had flawless reliability on all my ORIGINAL OEM Denso IR alternators.
 
My new PP alternator failed right out of the box. Hartzell replaced it under warranty. The internal voltage regulator was bad. The next new one has worked fine for about 50 hours so far.
 
Same PP Alternator Behavior

So I've been a bit unhappy with how my PlanePower alternator has been behaving. For the PC-680 battery to be really happy it needs a charging voltage of about 14.5v, as I understand it. My alternator -had- been putting out 14.0v, as measured by my EFIS. I now notice that in cruise flight I'm only getting 13.9v, and since it is internally regulated there is nothing to be done about it.

At this point my feeling is that my battery is being recharged slowly, and may not ever be making it to a full charge. This seems .. to put it bluntly .. not good.

I'm looking for an opinion. Is this the early stages of an inevitable slide toward alternator failure? If I don't switch it out now am I just going to be replacing batteries until the alternator totally croaks and I have to replace it anyway? Or am I being alarmist, and should just shut up and go fly? :)

I actually think I voted too early in the poll. I knew mine was iffy, but it had not "hard failed" so I indicated I had not had a failure. But I might be wrong, and it just might be a slow failure rather than a catastrophic one.

Opinions? Is it time to pull it out before I DO end up with a hard failure? If I do pull it out, I'm inclined to go the B&C route myself.

My 6 years old and 160hrs PP alternator is behaving exactly the same!
I would like to know what did you find wrong!!

Just after i start my engine and put the alternator ON, it gives me 14,3V... some few minutes after that, it drops to 13.8 or 13.9V.

No problems with the battery so far, but i'm afraid since the normal behavior is not like this... it used to put 14,3v or 14,2v steadly!!!

I have exactly the same fears that you said... and i would like to know what you discovered about this issue to help me solve this " problem" (if it's a problem!).
Thanks!!!
 
B&C 60 amp alternator

Failed on the way to Oshkosh 2018.
Talked to B&C at OSH and after some directed troubleshooting determined it was the voltage regulator. Good news is that even after having installed it 5 years ago during the build and operating on the aircraft for 3 years, B&C backed it 100% and replaced my voltage regulator at no charge well past the warranty period. Shipped to OSH, exchanged, installed prior to departure. So far working great. Still waiting to hear the reason for failure. Either way, B&C is clearly the company to go with.
 
Is 13.8 - 13.9 volts too low?

It depends. There are hundreds of RV-12s flying with a PC-680 battery and a Ducati regulator that puts out 13.8 volts.
That voltage is not a problem even though the battery will be charged slower than with a higher voltage. Of course the
Rotax engine starts so quickly that the battery is not discharged very much. If your engine requires lots of cranking to start
and flights are short, then your battery might not get fully charged at 13.8 volts.
Measure your battery voltage prior to first flight of the day. If it is 12.7 volts or higher, then I would not be concerned.
 
It depends. There are hundreds of RV-12s flying with a PC-680 battery and a Ducati regulator that puts out 13.8 volts.
That voltage is not a problem even though the battery will be charged slower than with a higher voltage. Of course the
Rotax engine starts so quickly that the battery is not discharged very much. If your engine requires lots of cranking to start
and flights are short, then your battery might not get fully charged at 13.8 volts.
Measure your battery voltage prior to first flight of the day. If it is 12.7 volts or higher, then I would not be concerned.

My engine usually does not require too much crank to start.
It?s a Lycoming XIO-360.
But, my concern is due to a normal behavior of the system shows 14,1V and since some 2 or 3 flights back... it?s showing 13.8 or 13.9v.
I went to a repair shop and the alternator was completely tested. Nothing wrong was found!!!
I?m still looking for what has changed or what can be wrong...
Does anybody believe that the battery could be the issue???
 
Does anybody believe that the battery could be the issue???
It is unlikely that the battery is the problem. The majority of electrical problems are caused by bad connections.
Take apart every connection in the charging system, clean mating surfaces, and reassemble.
 
It is unlikely that the battery is the problem. The majority of electrical problems are caused by bad connections.
Take apart every connection in the charging system, clean mating surfaces, and reassemble.

I'll do that!!!
Thanks for your time!!
I'm planning to do a complete connections check up!!!!
 
Poll Results

This is some really "telling" data. If we were to resort the results into 3 categories--Auto alternator totals, Plane Power totals, and B&C totals we would have the following:

Total P.P. owners reporting is 171 with 27% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Total Auto owners reporting is 122 with 18% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Total B&C owners reporting is 107 with 3% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Am I looking at this correctly?? If yes, it sure looks like the B&C folks know what they are doing!!!! It also looks like that $100 ND alternator is a great deal!!

If I am missing something please correct.

Cheers,

db
 
This is some really "telling" data. If we were to resort the results into 3 categories--Auto alternator totals, Plane Power totals, and B&C totals we would have the following:

Total P.P. owners reporting is 171 with 27% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Total Auto owners reporting is 122 with 18% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Total B&C owners reporting is 107 with 3% reporting failure w/i 250 hrs

Am I looking at this correctly?? If yes, it sure looks like the B&C folks know what they are doing!!!! It also looks like that $100 ND alternator is a great deal!!

If I am missing something please correct.

Cheers,

db

Although the math works out and the summary is correct, for a more accurate comparison the auto alternator category should be split further - one category for internally regulated and one category for externally regulated.

External regulation, especially with the regulator on the cool side of the firewall as is "preferred" according to the manual, may be a significant factor in the reliability of the B&C alternator/regulator.

I am using an automotive alternator, converted to external regulation, along with the B&C regulator. Its performance has been flawless in over 350 hours.

One hypothesis would be that internally regulated automotive alternators experience a higher failure rate than external. They may even be on par with or higher than the failure rate of PP alternators. If true, that may also mean the failure rate of externally regulated auto alternators is on par with B&C.
 
Back
Top