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Looking for IFR retract instruction

climberrn

climberrn

Well Known Member
Been weighing my options and am looking for suggestions. I am looking for a full immersion IFR program or instruction. Not interested in doing a couple of days a month. Here is the tricky part, would highly prefer it behind a glass panel, G3X (or G900X/G1000) with a GTN 750 would be my first choice since our upcoming project will have that. Dynon would be great also since I currently fly behind that.

High performance, retractable would be a HUGE plus, since I have no retract time and will need that also. We are based at CXP on the west coast but willing to travel for the right combination.

Suggestions anyone??
 
I'm a forty-something, old school type guy buy I'd personally push you towards a mixed concept of less technology upfront(only VOR/DME with HSI?) then finishing with all glass. When sh*t goes wrong the ability to put your finger on the approach plate and know where you are without all the gee whiz stuff is priceless. JMHO.

What are guys doing for partial panel training with the G3X?
 
You might find the perfect combo, but IMHO you have too many variables.

Concentrate on the easiest, least costly fixed price path to an IFR ticket via an accelerated program first, the rest will be easier to figure out.
 
Slice said:
I'm a forty-something, old school type guy buy I'd personally push you towards a mixed concept of less technology upfront(only VOR/DME with HSI?) then finishing with all glass. When sh*t goes wrong the ability to put your finger on the approach plate and know where you are without all the gee whiz stuff is priceless. JMHO.

What are guys doing for partial panel training with the G3X?
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That is totally understandable, but I have 400 hours behind glass, and our new project will have glass. Makes more sense to learn behind what I am used to and will be flying.
 
climberrn said:
That is totally understandable, but I have 400 hours behind glass, and our new project will have glass. Makes more sense to learn behind what I am used to and will be flying.
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I'm a cfii and I'm with Slice on this one. Learn on steam gauges, you'll easily transition back to glass, plus if the magic goes dark you'll know where you are and which way to turn. Learn on glass, and if it goes dark, you'll be lost. Plus there are lots of steam gauge Arrows and 182RGs out there if you need to build RG time.
 
GATTS is probably the best option to meet what you're looking for. I got my IR behind a G1000 so I say the steam vs glass debate isn't really that much of an issue, especially if you plan to fly glass in the future. Either panel will get the job done.
 
Glass Cockpit Aviation

Look up Cammie Patch. She's in Boise. I trained and took the checkride in the old Archer, but the web page is showing other options, including a retract option.
 
climberrn said:
That is totally understandable, but I have 400 hours behind glass, and our new project will have glass. Makes more sense to learn behind what I am used to and will be flying.
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I got my IFR ticket this spring and did it in my plane. I did all of my training in a glass environment and have no regrets. Granted, I don't feel comfortable flying IFR behind a steam panel, but don't believe I'll ever need that. Why learn in an environment that won't fully prepare you for your plane. You'll need to do some acclimating to the glass environment before you are comfortable with it and fully leverage it. Granted, I am sure it is not difficult but why not learn in your environment. I uncovered many tricks to using the features of my setup during training that make me a better pilot. For example, I never used wind correction methods. I learned how to interpret the numerous track based indicators to stay on my course. Also, all of the buttonology was burned into my head along with the IFR basics while I was with an instructor.

There are also benefits to learning in your plane if you are building a 4,6,7, or 8. The pitch and roll excursions happen real fast in these planes and I was very glad that I established the right disciplines during my early attitude flight training.

Best of luck in your pursuits. I thought the Instrument training was a very satisfying challenge.

Larry
Larry
 
Slice said:
I'm a forty-something, old school type guy buy I'd personally push you towards a mixed concept of less technology upfront(only VOR/DME with HSI?) then finishing with all glass. When sh*t goes wrong the ability to put your finger on the approach plate and know where you are without all the gee whiz stuff is priceless. JMHO.

What are guys doing for partial panel training with the G3X?
Click to expand...

I agree in concept with your thoughts/approach here, regarding basics first. However, This can be done in a glass environment. I did plenty of VOR work (approaches, holds, etc.) My EFIS has an HSI that looks identical to a 3 1/8" version on a Cessna. Even has an OBS knob. I have CDI indicators just like on a seperate 3 1/8" indicator, it is just super-imposed over my attitude representation. I fully agree with the concept of not letting the student program everything in his 430 and navigate by following the pink line. However, most glass is just a way to combine the 6 pack in one screen and those individual components can still be taught by a good instructor. Clearly, removing some of the glass automation is an effective teaching tool. I was not allowed to use my autopilot at any time in my training and I felt it forced me to develop more precise habits.

Dial the clock back 20 years, and I am sure instructors were saying the same thing about HSI's, telling students to use a separate heading indicator and CDI / ADF to better prepare them. A parallel would be forcing all new drivers to learn on manual transmission based cars. Today, one can become a very competent driver without ever knowing what gear they are in.

In my intial training I did partial panel with and ASI, ALT and ADI - with GPS approaches (CDI on GPS screen). Later in my training I added a second EFIS and put in battery backups for them. Glass is my primary and my backup.

Larry
 
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Well, I was instructing 20 years ago, and I never objected to an HSI. But I did love NDB approaches! When a student could do them well, I knew that he had mastered visualizing his position and orientation - without a moving map. The auto parallel would be a 16 year old learning to drive in a car with a gps moving map. Turn it off, and he can't figure out how to get home! Don't get me wrong, I love the avionics we have now. But I do a fair number of IPCs, and I can always tell the pilots who have never flown without moving maps. If I 'fail' the map, the pilot gets mentally lost.
 
We're Getting Old

IIRC, my own early instrument instruction included some ranting about using a rotatable card on the NDB approaches - like it would destroy my capability to figure out headings and intercepts on my own.

My big challenge today is to stop over-controlling the aircraft because the digital information coming at me is showing heading and altitude changes one degree and one foot at a time. I have to keep reminding myself that maritime compasses showed 32 points (rather than 360 degrees) for a reason - holding course any closer was an exercise in futility.

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
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