We interupt this build

Finally, success at setting a 470AD4 rivet. 3 in a row.

Yesterday's session was miserable. I couldn't set a 470AD4 rivet for anything. Tried driving with my 3x gun at different air flows. Have the import brass flow control on the gun, so I'm not sure what my pressure is, but tried several different settings. Think I'm a little low now as it takes 2-3 seconds for an 470AD4-6. My big problem was smileys, both on the rivet and on the piece I was shooting. I suspect that I don't have enough experience and am not keeping adequate pressure on the gun. Not sure how secure things need to be, so I may not have my piece clamped well enough and it is possibly moving slightly.

I quit building and went out flying instead. Same result when I came home, so I quit early.

Using a squeezer eliminated smileys on the rivet, but was getting them on the spar doubler that I was riveting. Figured out that as I was squeezing I was slightly dropping the handle, causing the set to mar the piece. Looking at the shop head confirmed it. It was not truly flat, but raised on one side slightly.

Tried again this morning. By concentrating on not dropping the handle of the squeezer I was able to squeeze 3 acceptable, safe and good looking rivets in a row.

BTW, I read a thread last night about shooting 470 rivets several times over so I know I'm not the only one with this malady. Now, back to the shop.

The trick to eliminate smiley when driving round head rivets is to put two layers of masking tape over the rivet set. The tape will last for 2-3 rivets - replace as needed.

For flush rivets put a piece of clear packaging tape over the set. The tape will last for 30 or so rivets. Replace as needed.

Get rid of the reducer at the gun and get one with a gauge on it. That way you can find the right pressure and be able to dial it in when found. This Harbor Freight reducer put together three airplanes so far: http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...es/industrial-air-filter-regulator-68247.html

A 3X gun will work, but for 99% of RV riveting a 2X gun is better. Start with 30-35 PSIG for 3/32 rivets, 40-45 PSIG for 1/8" rivets. Adjust as needed.

Always run the squeezer at full pressure (100-120 PSIG). Keep it level and the set centered on the shop end of the rivet. If you need, get a smaller yoke (helps the balance). I have one deep throat and one shallow throat.

Carl

You know what they say around here, if there are no pics, It didn't happen ;-)

Gorilla tape

Just another tip.
Gorilla tape works great for universal rivet heads. A piece about 1" square is good for four rivets.
I prefer my Sioux 3X set to 30 psi for #4s.
Heavy packing tape works well for flush rivets. One piece with the edge folded over is good for lots of rivets.
I prefer to put the tape on the rivet instead of the set.

In Canada we use hockey tape. Ya I know - no Cdn teams in the playoffs.

Champ said:

In Canada we use hockey tape. Ya I know - no Cdn teams in the playoffs.

Click to expand...

You used up all their tape!

+1 for tape

I found It was easier to tape over the factory head. More tape was used but much better results. I also found higher PSI worked better. Less hits on the head, less time to have the gun move. I Use 50-60 PSI for 1/8 inch rivets


I also agree on clear packing tape for flush rivets.

On the other side, I tape up the bucking bar so it will not mar any internal stuff

I have the air line from my compressor routed into a y air fitting. One of those outputs I leave at the full pressure for my die grinder or air drill. The other output I have for reduced pressure for my rivet gun. I have the HF gauge / valve in that line. I also use the fittings and light weight hoses from Cleaveland Tools on those outputs. They are very helpful but not required. I put a wrap of red electrical tape on the high pressure hose so I can quickly tell them apart. This system seems to work well.

Getting Better

Thanks everyone, for the suggestions. I've gotten substantially better squeezing them and can get a nice looking rivet without smileys most of the time without tape. I plan on trying out the tape as insurance.

Now I'm just debating with myself over whether to order a new spar and doubler and redo them or keep moving. The smileys are all on the doubler piece. It's a pretty beefy piece and it should be ok structurally. Maybe I'll just leave it and call it my happy piece. I do have two holes that I buggered up removing rivets, so I'll need to order the oops rivets. One of them is slightly elongated so I'm not sure that an oops rivet will work there. Guess I'll send Vans a pic and see what they say.

Learning new skills is fun and sometimes it takes a while to get good at them. I guess that's what experimental is all about. I'm just getting started and I'm sure this will all seem silly to me eventually.

As you suggested, 3 seconds is too long to set a rivet. Up the pressure.
Practice on scrap. I like a long one second.

+1

BobTurner said:

....Practice on scrap......

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If you don't have any, get some. I think I was building the fuselage before I got really comfortable riveting. When I was still on the tail, ever 'new day' to rivet I'd drive a couple rivets in scrap just to get myself 'the feel' back. It's a skill that will develop. Just like anything, it will take time.

Hmmm

I never tried the tape on universal head rivets, sounds like a great idea. If I couldn't squeeze the universal head rivet with hand squeezers, I would get someone to help either running the gun or holding the bucking bar. I never could do the gun and the bar by myself on universal head rivets.

This could evolve into the new primer saga.

I used hockey tape, one layer on the set. Drove dozens before replacing.

My experience was that if I drove toward a solid surface, it was hard to control the process. If I drove toward 'free air', it was hard to control the process. What worked for me was to place the work on either something like a moving blanket, or (better) a sheet of something like 1/2" thick carpet underpad. For me, the work needed to move just enough to 'bounce' the bar away from the shop head, without moving enough in-line or laterally to let the set come off the head.

If I had to rivet toward 'air', I'd use as many free fingers as I could spare to push back on the work (not the bar or rivet) so the work couldn't move much. This, with as much hand pressure on the gun as I could manage & still control everything, helped to keep the set on the factory head.

No claim that all mine were perfect, but the above is what worked best for me.

Charlie

I found I was letting up pressure on the gun before I let off the trigger .... smileys, especially on round head rivets.

It was a habit deeply ingrained from letting up on a drill as the bit began to break through.
It took time to unlearn and relearn to hold pressure until after the noise stopped.