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  #11  
Old 04-09-2007, 11:56 AM
biggles biggles is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Default cross winds and bumpy grass runways

everyone says avoid 3 pointing an 8

what about in cross winds?

or grass runways?

we dont all have the luxury of 9000ft of smooth hard
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2007, 12:15 PM
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flyeyes flyeyes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles
everyone says avoid 3 pointing an 8

what about in cross winds?

or grass runways?

we dont all have the luxury of 9000ft of smooth hard
Hi Biggles.

I understand that paved runways are less prevalent in your part of the world. I'm based on a paved, 3800' strip, but usually make the first turnoff (900') with light braking. I land on grass fairly often, but avoid rough strips because I think they are hard on the wheelpants.

As long as you aren't landing way too fast, the slow "wheelie" really doesn't require much more runway than a full stall and gives you better control.

In a stout crosswind, I wheel it on at a slight higher than normal airspeed. The RV-8 has an enormous rudder and is a very good crosswind airplane.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2007, 06:52 PM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles
everyone says avoid 3 pointing an 8

what about in cross winds?

or grass runways?

we dont all have the luxury of 9000ft of smooth hard
The first 3-4 years (4-500 hrs) of my RV's life was at a 2000' grass strip where I landed about the same as on pavement. It was cross with the prevailing wind and heavily crowned. I rarely landed 3-pt there as well. But I did use more flaps than on long, hard surface runways.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2007, 08:21 PM
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fodrv7 fodrv7 is offline
 
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Location: Torquay, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 826
Default Easier than the -7

My experience in my mate Gerry's RV-8 (80hrs) is much the same as described by others- though I haven't played around with flapless landings.

My -7, however, I find more difficult to three point as you cannot see over the nose when in the three point attitude- which you can in the eight.

For this reason I always take a crosswind from the right, if there are cross runways, as it screws the nose out to the right and I can see THE END OF THE RUNWAY, which we all know is where we should be looking.

It the wind is down the strip or calm, I often get a small skip as others have experienced.

If on the otherhand after the skip, I find the aircraft back 3' or more off the ground (not so much because of a bounce but rather because it just won't stop flying) then I add a trickle of power which makes it easier to fly it back down to mother earth.

When this happens I am always reminded of my collegues who flew the B727, of which they said, "You haven't finished with the engines until you have finished with the wings."


Pete.
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2007, 07:47 AM
rv72004 rv72004 is offline
 
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Posts: 452
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Maybe its not really relevant as I fly a 7, but here goes. I only do 3 pointers. Almost always touch the tailwheel first. If I skip ,I gently pull back on the stick as it skips and re-flare basically for the second landing. Never do I add power or check stick forward. I tried this in the past and it really screws things up for me.

I have tried wheelers and find that I bounce like a Kangaroo ever second landing. So I purposely give them a miss. Lack of experience I guess.

So 3 pointers it is for me. Keep the stick all the way back after touchdown and work that rudder. No groundloop yet. Touch wood.

But then again I only have 30 hours or so on tailwheels, so I am probably the last person to give advice.
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  #16  
Old 04-10-2007, 12:53 PM
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chrispratt chrispratt is offline
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Posts: 540
Default Comparing -8 to -7 wheel landings

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv72004
Maybe its not really relevant as I fly a 7, but here goes. I only do 3 pointers. Almost always touch the tailwheel first. If I skip ,I gently pull back on the stick as it skips and re-flare basically for the second landing. Never do I add power or check stick forward. I tried this in the past and it really screws things up for me.

img]http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon10.gif[/img]
The -8 is the only one of Van's airplanes to have the flat steel gear. It's much stiffer than the tubular gear. Even the -8A doesn't have the flat steel. It makes all the difference in the world when wheel landing.

Your -7 has the tubular gear. It tends to flex and then spring back upon impact (I mean landing) so it's not surprising that wheel landings are a bit more challenging. My observation on the non-8 tailwheel airplanes is that pilots tend to land them three point or tail low.

Chris
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  #17  
Old 04-10-2007, 09:06 PM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv72004
Maybe its not really relevant as I fly a 7, but here goes. I only do 3 pointers. Almost always touch the tailwheel first. If I skip ,I gently pull back on the stick as it skips and re-flare basically for the second landing. Never do I add power or check stick forward. I tried this in the past and it really screws things up for me.

I have tried wheelers and find that I bounce like a Kangaroo ever second landing. So I purposely give them a miss. Lack of experience I guess.

So 3 pointers it is for me. Keep the stick all the way back after touchdown and work that rudder. No groundloop yet. Touch wood.

But then again I only have 30 hours or so on tailwheels, so I am probably the last person to give advice.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. My limited experience with the -7 wheel landing thrill is likewise. The full stall, staight ahead, 3 pointer is a piece of cake, although the tail wheel does make contact first. It does a couple little pogos and then stays glued to the ground. Directional control is OK.

It seems all tail draggers have a preferred landing attitude, be it 2 point or 3 point, although guys with lots of experience do it well either way. It's nice to know which the airpane prefers. Some of the WWII fighters were always wheel landed, some not. The BF-109 was very tricky as many were lost on landing - that's one reason so many were built. The FW-190 was much more forgiving. I know a pilot (then age 21, now 84) who flew -51's out of Italy. One guy in their outfit cart wheeled 2 -51's on landing and did not get a scratch.

(If anyone is interested, "Spitfires and Yellow Tail Mustangs" is an excellent reference on the 52nd Fighter Group in WWII with many photos and daily combat reports. My friend was in the 4th squadron and is mentioned in the book.)

In the event I build the cool 8, I've saved this thread in PDF format as it is an excellent reference on landing the 8.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2007, 10:41 AM
TShort TShort is offline
 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (KUMP)
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Default

A little off topic, but how do you save threads as a .pdf? That would be a useful way to reference things...

T.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2007, 01:12 PM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Location: LSGG
Posts: 1,978
Default PDF

DD is running on a Macintosh, so PDF is built in. If you're hamstrung with Windoze, you'll need to download and install software like PrimoPDF (http://www.primopdf.com/), then you do file, print, and select the PrimoPDF printer.
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2007, 07:24 AM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TShort
A little off topic, but how do you save threads as a .pdf? That would be a useful way to reference things...

T.
With a Mac computer the .pdf save feature shows up on the print page.
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RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...#83261 flying as of 6/16/2014
RV-3 ....fan

I'm in, dues paid 2017 This place is worth it!
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