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  #111  
Old 03-21-2017, 07:48 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Interesting read. I've been fortunate over the years to fly many different aircraft and to me they all land like, well, airplanes. Be on speed, arrest the sink and flare. I've witnessed so much stick pumping I thought there must be snakes in the cockpit. I've heard about how you had to push the 727 on. You don't have to carry power to touchdown, bump the power to arrest the sink, push to keep from spiking it, pump the stick or fight it down. All I've ever had to do is fly it like a plane. They ALL land very well if flown correctly and smoothly. Be it airline equipment, military, corporate ot our beloved GA, just fly it like an airplane. Smoothly.
It has been my experience over the years when I seen somene pumping the stick, they don't really know where the ground is.
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  #112  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:08 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8iator View Post
Interesting read. I've been fortunate over the years to fly many different aircraft and to me they all land like, well, airplanes. Be on speed, arrest the sink and flare. I've witnessed so much stick pumping I thought there must be snakes in the cockpit. I've heard about how you had to push the 727 on. You don't have to carry power to touchdown, bump the power to arrest the sink, push to keep from spiking it, pump the stick or fight it down. All I've ever had to do is fly it like a plane. They ALL land very well if flown correctly and smoothly. Be it airline equipment, military, corporate ot our beloved GA, just fly it like an airplane. Smoothly.
It has been my experience over the years when I seen somene pumping the stick, they don't really know where the ground is.
Jerry,

I never flew the 727 but have close to 2000 hours at the panel watching guys fly it. The stretch was always flared with power on, if not it would not flare but hit the runway and drop all the masks in the back.

The "push on" was a technique in stretched airplanes to get the mains rising as they settled on the concrete, if done just right, passengers did not know they were on the ground. It worked well with the MD80, I did it if not fighting a gusty wind. The 80 was like the 727 also in that power was necessary going into flare, or it would not flare, a characteristic of airplanes that were stretched from original designs. The early DC9's flew like real airplanes and guys loved it.

Getting back to the 8, there is a point in landing where the drag curve really goes up quickly if the the machine is close to stall speed. No amount of back pressure will arrest the sink, but just a bit of power will. When flying into the Troy airpark from the west, I learned the hard landing way to add just a little power going into flare after a 60-65 knot power off glide when clear of trees.

Technique that works.

Your comment about pumping stick is interesting. There are serious articles written about doing it. I've flown with a guy who as CFI taught it to students who were having trouble getting their act together. It is a substitute for not really knowing what's going on.

I don't know if he still uses that as a teaching/learning method.
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  #113  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:25 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Jerry,

I never flew the 727 but have close to 2000 hours at the panel watching guys fly it. The stretch was always flared with power on, if not it would not flare but hit the runway and drop all the masks in the back.

The "push on" was a technique in stretched airplanes to get the mains rising as they settled on the concrete, if done just right, passengers did not know they were on the ground. It worked well with the MD80, I did it if not fighting a gusty wind. The 80 was like the 727 also in that power was necessary going into flare, or it would not flare, a characteristic of airplanes that were stretched from original designs. The early DC9's flew like real airplanes and guys loved it.

Getting back to the 8, there is a point in landing where the drag curve really goes up quickly if the the machine is close to stall speed. No amount of back pressure will arrest the sink, but just a bit of power will. When flying into the Troy airpark from the west, I learned the hard landing way to add just a little power going into flare after a 60-65 knot power off glide when clear of trees.

Technique that works.

Your comment about pumping stick is interesting. There are serious articles written about doing it. I've flown with a guy who as CFI taught it to students who were having trouble getting their act together. It is a substitute for not really knowing what's going on.

I don't know if he still uses that as a teaching/learning method.
Different techniques. I was on both 72 and 88, and all the others. In calm conditions never had to keep power on in flare. 1011 was a big cub. 75, 76 same. Pull the power and flare.
They're all fun honest birds kust like out current rides.
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  #114  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Alan Carroll Alan Carroll is offline
 
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Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Interesting videos Alan, but none of those guys were hot WWII pilots. They were civilians flying restored WWII airplanes many years later, certainly not spun up like guys flying combat missions every day in time of war.
David,

Just for fun here's a couple more vintage videos from WWII:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duyMuyA69yg Very nice 3-point landing by a P-51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi9i6k5NBTY Skip ahead to about 10:50. The first P-51 does a wheel landing and the next 4 or so land 3-point.
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  #115  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:03 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carroll View Post
David,

Just for fun here's a couple more vintage videos from WWII:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duyMuyA69yg Very nice 3-point landing by a P-51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi9i6k5NBTY Skip ahead to about 10:50. The first P-51 does a wheel landing and the next 4 or so land 3-point.
Excellent, thoroughly enjoyed getting checked out in P-51.
Thanks for posting.
The 51 certainly behaved well with 3 pointers.
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  #116  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:19 PM
Galenkillam Galenkillam is offline
 
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O-360 w/ fp. I always land full flaps and wheels. As near to level as possible and keep the tail up with the stick until it won't stay up. 80 mph on final and pull power over the threshold. If the cross wind is significant, I put the tail down quicker. Either way, when the tail goes down I pin it there with the stick.
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  #117  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:45 PM
mdmba mdmba is offline
 
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Location: WA
Posts: 36
Default Keep pushing stick forward..??

so once the mains touch...and you put forward pressure on stick ..do you continue to push it forward until the tail drops, and let tail drop when it wants to?
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  #118  
Old 03-26-2017, 12:29 AM
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BruceEicher BruceEicher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mdmba View Post
so once the mains touch...and you put forward pressure on stick ..do you continue to push it forward until the tail drops, and let tail drop when it wants to?
You could hold the tail up as you describe if you have no winds (or maybe steady down the runway). But I have found it to be safer to let the tail down as soon as you slow past full stall speed. Then the plane won't relaunch and you can apply smooth up elevator to pin yourself to the runway. Holding the tail up too long could leave you at risk of a sideways gust sending you towards the ditch or into a ground loop.
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Last edited by BruceEicher : 03-26-2017 at 11:48 PM. Reason: I hate seeing the second "o" missing in "too"!
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  #119  
Old 03-26-2017, 10:48 PM
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Blain Blain is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 625
Default Gear cuffs

Something that hasn't been addressed in this thread. Several references have been made to the only difference between the -8 and other RV tailwheel models is the flat steel gear. However, the placement of the gear is different too.

The Vans bible, 27 years of RVator, has several pages dedicated to the disturbance of flow at the wing root caused by the gear cuff.

That flow disturbance can change stall speed by 5 or more mph.

I guess my point is that the -8 has more differences contributing to landing techniques then discussed.

BTW, I'm at about 50 landings now. Control speed, carry a pinch of power, wheel it on tail low, pin the mains then follow the tail down with elevator.

Seems to be working for me.
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  #120  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:43 AM
stancaruthers stancaruthers is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Paradise tx
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Default Hurry up 100 hours

I'm still at the infant stage with crosswind landings, however yesterday with as little as 8 kt direct Xwind I found that tail low I was almost out of rudder, or should I say I was pushing almost to the firewall during the dance. The second landing I kept the tail a smidgen higher seemed to help.
I understand what was said...that if the tail is high that a gust could send you ditch bound.....still learning.

P.S. I have found the ditch once, scared the bejesus out of me.

When you xperts post landing techniques, I'm all ears then I apply what I read......seems to be many different opinions that all work or that you can walk away from.
Master Lander seems way off in the distance somewhere, but I can't wait until I can relax a bit and quit chocking the life out of the infinity grip on xwind's.
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