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  #11  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:16 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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You might reconsider and move that flow transducer to after the engine fuel pump. If you plan for an IO engine it will fit nicely on the oil pan rail before the fuel distribution unit.

Also, urge you to perform an air pressure leak test on the tunnel fuel system. Plug off at the firewall and add appropriate adapters and pressure gage at the wing root connection to the tank. Pressurize to 30 psi close a valve and leave it over night. Do both sides of the system with the selector valve in place.

A bench test of just the fuel pump assembly may save some time. 90% probability you will find at least one leak.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
You are correct, no Teflon tape.

On the pipe threads going into the sensor, you may want to use a very small amount of thread sealant. Be sure not to get any sealant near the end of the connector. Sealant in the fuel line will cause things you don't want to happen.

On the AN fittings with the beveled end, don't use anything. Just torque them properly.
Nope no Teflon tape, just thread sealant:
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2017, 02:33 PM
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The recommended location by AFP for the flow sensor is between after the metered output of the FI control/servo. This provides the most accurate reading.

Having installed a JPI 830 on a carb'd engine, they required it to be after the mechanical fuel pump and above the carb.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:34 PM
DRMA DRMA is offline
 
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There are some photos of the filter & pump installation on my RV-10 on my kitlog at http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displa...=232159&row=31

I believe this is with the new pump as there was supplemental instructions with it and no requirement for a return loop.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2017, 06:35 PM
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I added a few more photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/uuhyZ7pJCFY4kG8GA
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:21 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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I would consider making some changes. Please. With the loops in the suction lines where is a possibility of trapping air in the tops of the loops between the filter and the pump. Also excess tubing can pick up more heat from the tunnel and transfer it to the fuel. You'd be surprised at how low the fuel flow is in those 3/8" lines during cruise. Plenty of time for the fuel to get warm. I actually put Firesleeve on my fuel lines inside the tunnel. I just replaced my old style AFP pump with the new style, and by using a Phoeinx coupling available at Spruce I was able to keep the pump in line with the filter using the same hose clamp arrangement and only needed to fabricate a new line from the fuel valve to the inlet of the pump. Heating those lines on the suction side is only asking for trouble. If you were to get a vapor lock in one of those loops, there's a good chance that the suction from the pump would not be able to overcome it, resulting in fuel starvation to the engine.

Here's the fitting:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=81861

It's a lot shorter than you can make at home.


Also, you might consider moving the flow meter to the engine side, between the servo and the flow divider. The flow meter in the tunnel can be an issue with pressure drop on the suction side of the engine pump and incorrect or fluctuating readings in flight. When I moved mine after 1000 hours in the tunnel I was amazed at how much more accurate the sensor became, and it never changes with activation of the fuel pump.

Vic
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:44 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
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Default for whats its worth dept--

I agree with Vic on the rigid tubing. NOT the use of rigid tubing, but the tall loops. Remember that once the boost pump is turned off, the mechanical pump need to draw the fuel from the tanks, through the valve, filter and pump, and the associated plumbing. Tall loops will make a big elevation change, and make the pump work harder. ( Note--for you RV7/9 builders, that why we like to use the upper holes in the spar brackets--they are more inline with the tanks, and alot less elevation change.) Greater 'possibility' of fuel stalling in the lines.

Again-- my 2 cents worth.
Tom
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2017, 10:35 AM
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Lan Vinh Do Lan Vinh Do is offline
 
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Default my new set-up afp new style will be and removing the fuel flow

After reading all that, i will go really simple. I have 2 new bracket for fuel pump and filter. Everything will be inline from the selector to the filter, to the fuel pump.

I am a little bit limited on the fuel line from the selector to the filter because de original builder have put the fuel valve very lower than the plan ( can't put a straight or 45 deg fitting)

I can now move everything forward because i decide TO REMOVE THE FUEL FLOW SENSOR FROM THE TUNEL so i have more space and less plumbing. I will install it as recommended between the servo and flow divider. Still need to think about the best way to install it there.

I also copy a email that i received from Don at Airflow performance. Always helpful. Good reliable information. Always had good services with him.

I would also not put the flow meter in the tunnel. This gives incorrect fuel flow readings when the boost pump is turned on and puts additional pressure drop on the suction side of the engine pump that can lead to vapor problems, fluctuating fuel pressure or loss of fuel pressure. And the 5 of straight tubing before the flow meter is not necessary. The correct location for the flow meter is between the fuel control (metered fuel hose) and flow divider. Always install straight fittings in the flow meter (AN816-4-4D). If you need to curve the hose then use a full flow fitting on the hose fitting. I have used full flow fittings (45s and 90s ) on one or both ends with excellent results. Do not attach the flow meter directly to the engine. Let the hoses support the flow meter. This keeps engine vibration from wearing out the flow meter bearings.

for the pump :
You can also attached the filter directly to the inlet of the pump inlet manifold thus eliminating another connection
Don Rivera
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:06 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lan Vinh Do View Post
After reading all that, i will go really simple. I have 2 new bracket for fuel pump and filter. Everything will be inline from the selector to the filter, to the fuel pump.

I am a little bit limited on the fuel line from the selector to the filter because de original builder have put the fuel valve very lower than the plan ( can't put a straight or 45 deg fitting)

I can now move everything forward because i decide TO REMOVE THE FUEL FLOW SENSOR FROM THE TUNEL so i have more space and less plumbing. I will install it as recommended between the servo and flow divider. Still need to think about the best way to install it there.

I also copy a email that i received from Don at Airflow performance. Always helpful. Good reliable information. Always had good services with him.

I would also not put the flow meter in the tunnel. This gives incorrect fuel flow readings when the boost pump is turned on and puts additional pressure drop on the suction side of the engine pump that can lead to vapor problems, fluctuating fuel pressure or loss of fuel pressure. And the 5 of straight tubing before the flow meter is not necessary. The correct location for the flow meter is between the fuel control (metered fuel hose) and flow divider. Always install straight fittings in the flow meter (AN816-4-4D). If you need to curve the hose then use a full flow fitting on the hose fitting. I have used full flow fittings (45s and 90s ) on one or both ends with excellent results. Do not attach the flow meter directly to the engine. Let the hoses support the flow meter. This keeps engine vibration from wearing out the flow meter bearings.

for the pump :
You can also attached the filter directly to the inlet of the pump inlet manifold thus eliminating another connection
Don Rivera
That's kind of what I did. Using an example in the EI install manual, http://buy-ei.com/wp-content/uploads...P-5.pdf?x57196 , I placed my Red Cube in the fuel line from the engine fuel pump to the throttle body roughly midway between the 2 using just the hoses to support it. I used steel AN816 fittings and covered the whole shooting match with a fire sleeve from ACS: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...?clickkey=4118
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:27 PM
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Lynnb Lynnb is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse View Post
I would consider making some changes. Please. With the loops in the suction lines where is a possibility of trapping air in the tops of the loops between the filter and the pump. Also excess tubing can pick up more heat from the tunnel and transfer it to the fuel. You'd be surprised at how low the fuel flow is in those 3/8" lines during cruise. Plenty of time for the fuel to get warm. I actually put Firesleeve on my fuel lines inside the tunnel. I just replaced my old style AFP pump with the new style, and by using a Phoeinx coupling available at Spruce I was able to keep the pump in line with the filter using the same hose clamp arrangement and only needed to fabricate a new line from the fuel valve to the inlet of the pump. Heating those lines on the suction side is only asking for trouble. If you were to get a vapor lock in one of those loops, there's a good chance that the suction from the pump would not be able to overcome it, resulting in fuel starvation to the engine.

Here's the fitting:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=81861

It's a lot shorter than you can make at home.


Also, you might consider moving the flow meter to the engine side, between the servo and the flow divider. The flow meter in the tunnel can be an issue with pressure drop on the suction side of the engine pump and incorrect or fluctuating readings in flight. When I moved mine after 1000 hours in the tunnel I was amazed at how much more accurate the sensor became, and it never changes with activation of the fuel pump.

Vic
I do like the looks of that phoenix fitting, I might have to try that out. I've flown a good bit in a 10 with the red cube in this same set-up and the meter has never been a problem and the fuel flow seems to be dead on when it says we burned 30 gallons it takes 30 gallons to fill it back up, not sure how much more accurate it could be, what am I missing?

Lynn
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