VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #31  
Old 02-13-2017, 07:49 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 3,870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
That crash was caused by an improper preflight, not a static system failure...
Maybe so, and if they had alt-static they might not have used it, but having one after ascending into the soup would have overcome the single point of failure at preflight. At least they would have to screw up two things to die.

While it is a personal choice, it is not stupid to have an alt-static. Besides if the line is accessible, like my tip up, it can be used for a test port.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-13-2017, 08:06 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 637
Default Yep

Yes, I agree that an alt static source would have helped in this case, however, NONE of the 757s that I have had the privilege of flying have had an internally selectable static air source. There is a Captain's, First Officer's, and Alternate static ports on the fuselage. In this case they were ALL taped over.

In reference to the post that "..they used clear tape...". That may well be true but that is not a valid excuse to miss it on a preflight. That amounts to lack of attention to detail, and in this case it was a fatal error...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-13-2017, 09:23 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 3,870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
Yes, I agree that an alt static source would have helped in this case, however, NONE of the 757s that I have had the privilege of flying have had an internally selectable static air source. There is a Captain's, First Officer's, and Alternate static ports on the fuselage. In this case they were ALL taped over.

In reference to the post that "..they used clear tape...". That may well be true but that is not a valid excuse to miss it on a preflight. That amounts to lack of attention to detail, and in this case it was a fatal error...
Interesting, good reference to your experience. Thanks.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-13-2017, 09:50 AM
supik supik is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 56
Default

I don't want to start a static port war here and would like to apologize to OP for hijacking the thread. I think he made his mind to install the alt static source already.

Bob, it never happened to you, because you did a thorough preflight and you flew an airliner with 3 HEATED ports with a lot of electrical redundancy. Each port consisting of 7holes (see pic) -we have 2 non heated ports, usually not covered when parked with possible insect blockage (very rare, I do agree). I am not telling that the RV ports will get blocked immediately as soon as you enter icing, but do we have real world data on this? Flight tests in icing conditions?
You have gone through many sim checks and trainings during your career and might be very well better prepared for inflight IMC or night VFR emergencies than the rest of the community. I am not questioning that you would handle it. The 757s have no internally selectable cabin static air source because the cabin is pressurised -in this case the cabin static pressure would not be of any help. You would have to depressurize the cabin first.

I see no reason telling people there is no need for this mod -especially if they plan to fly at night or IMC.

This statement belongs to Boeing:
Total blockages of the pitot or static systems are rare. However, many anomalies are associated with partial blockages, damage, or deterioration of system parts. Anomalies can result when

Pitot probe covers or static port covers are not removed.
Pitot or static hoses are disconnected.
Hoses are leaking.
Water trapped in the lines freezes during flight.
Pitot probes or static ports are blocked by volcanic ash.
The radome is damaged.
Icing occurs on the pitot probes or static ports.
Pitot probes or static ports are blocked by insects.

Pitot probes or static ports are physically damaged.
Air data pressure sensors fail.


__________________
Igor

RV-10 in progress
Build Log

Last edited by supik : 02-13-2017 at 01:35 PM. Reason: You would have to depressurize the cabin first.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-13-2017, 11:11 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 637
Default No worries...

No worries. I did not say in any way not to have the alternate static source on the -10...I am installing the one from stein in my aircraft. My point was that first off, if you are in an area of icing in a -10, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. However, $41t happens and you could find yourself there. From an engineering standpoint, the location of the ports on the -10 make icing, at that location, improbable but not impossible. What it really amounts to is what each individual builder feels comfortable with...for $15 bucks I think it's worth it.

As far as flying the 757 without reliable instruments...well, it's challenging. You really have no visual reference...you can't see the nose as it drops away from the windshield rapidly. You can't see the wings...at all. You can use a given power setting and configuration to get a ballpark speed at least...

It is a wonderful airplane though, in my opinion, one of the best airliners ever built. Nothing quite like taking off in a while transport airplane, pitching up to 20 degrees and watching the VSI needle going to the peg at 6000fpm!
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-13-2017, 06:16 PM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,500
Default

Quote:
1- Pitot probe covers or static port covers are not removed.
2 - Pitot or static hoses are disconnected.
3 - Hoses are leaking.
4 - Water trapped in the lines freezes during flight.
5 - Pitot probes or static ports are blocked by volcanic ash.
6 - The radome is damaged.
7 - Icing occurs on the pitot probes or static ports.
8 - Pitot probes or static ports are blocked by insects.
9 - Pitot probes or static ports are physically damaged.
10 - Air data pressure sensors fail.
As it pertains to an RV-10 static port.
1- I have never seen a static port cover for an RV (except by the painter)
2- If the static hose is disconnected you already have your alternate cabin pressure
3- Same if the hose is leaking, except now you get a mix of cabin pressure and outside static pressure.
4- Valid reason.
5- That's a bit of a stretch especially for the static ports.
6 - RV-10s don't have a radome and even if they did, the static ports are mounted on the fuselage sides.
7 - Highly improbable on the static ports, you would have accumulated ice everywhere else before the rear of the fuselage starts to ice over.
8 - Insect blockage occurs on the ground and on rare occasion perhaps on the pitot in flight but not on the static port.
9 - That would happen on the ground and you should definitely catch it on your preflight, people do knock off pitots but not static ports.
10 - If your air data sensor fails it would not start working again on an alternate static source.

# 5 is a valid reason to install an alternate static source and as others including me have mentioned, no harm or great expense to do so but absolutely unnecessary on an RV. A properly installed static line as per plans, follows the fuselage up about 10 inches from the ports and Tees off into a single line. For water to get into the system you would almost have to drown your plane. I suppose I will now get a lesson on condensation in the static line
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 400 plus hours
Over 2500 Gallons of E10 mogas burned
Don't believe everything you know.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-03-2017, 03:17 PM
steve murray's Avatar
steve murray steve murray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Flat Rock, North Carolina
Posts: 165
Default Static port Water ingestion on the ground during tie down

"For water to get into the system you would almost have to drown your plane. "

Not an RV10, but on my RV-8, twice I have departed IFR out of Huntsville Alabama with heavy rain storm the night before to find my Autopilot acting crazy and I have attributed this to water in the static ports. (I am assuming on my RV-8 only one side of the static ports got water ingestion due to typical storm blowing water in one direction but it sure drove my autopilot crazy.)


I have now gotten into the practice of covering static ports during tie-down.

The RV-10 I am building will have alternate port and I plan to cover static ports during outside tie down

Steve
__________________
Steve

RV8 Flying since 2007
RV10 in construction (Fuselage)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-05-2017, 06:17 AM
paul330 paul330 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mpumalanga, South Africa
Posts: 941
Default

I have made some static plugs from pulled rivet shanks bent over at the end and attached to "Remove Before Flight" flags. A length of elastic with Velcro at the ends secures it around the fuselage.
__________________
Paul
Mercy Air, White River FAWV
RV-10
ZU-IIZ - "Zeus"
2017 Donation Made
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-08-2017, 02:45 PM
johngoodman's Avatar
johngoodman johngoodman is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Peachtree City, Georgia
Posts: 432
Default

I used the switch that Stein sells. Covered it with a pretty blue switch guard, with big ALT AIR letters in white.
John
__________________
John Goodman - 40572
First flight was 25 June, 2011
N711JG
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-08-2017, 05:30 AM
catcrew catcrew is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve murray View Post
"For water to get into the system you would almost have to drown your plane. "

Not an RV10, but on my RV-8, twice I have departed IFR out of Huntsville Alabama with heavy rain storm the night before to find my Autopilot acting crazy and I have attributed this to water in the static ports. (I am assuming on my RV-8 only one side of the static ports got water ingestion due to typical storm blowing water in one direction but it sure drove my autopilot crazy.)


I have now gotten into the practice of covering static ports during tie-down.

The RV-10 I am building will have alternate port and I plan to cover static ports during outside tie down

Steve
I was just about to mention the tropical storm aspect. In my 25 years of flying, I have had to pull the alternate static once on a Mooney and it was because it was parked outside during a tropical storm the night before. Shortly (within a minute) after takeoff the instruments were not telling the truth and I was in the clouds already. Very scarry moment and at the time I had about 100 hrs. Pulled the alternate static and all was well. For 15$, it will give me peace of mind.

Sorry do dig up an old thread, was reading back a little. Yes this is my first post. I have been reading for a few months and started my emp kit about a month ago.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:35 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.