VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #21  
Old 02-12-2017, 02:20 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 603
Default Curious

What type of icing would you just "happen" into that would or even could ice the the static ports? Pitot, yes, but the static ports on the -10 would be difficult to ice even in moderate icing due to their location.

Definitely not saying an alternate static source is necessarily a bad idea but in reality, those ports on the -10 generally shouldn't be an issue. As a previous post stated, with the avionics that most of us are/will be using, a plugged static line should not be a catastrophic event.
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-12-2017, 03:12 PM
supik supik is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 56
Default

I suggest you go to a sim center and pay 1hr of instruction in IMC with a state of the art EFIS. Then ask the instructor to block the static port and give you vectors to land in IMC -you following your gps speed and alt (headwind / tailwind component? delayed information?) This lesson might be a good investment. I am pretty sure you will order that valve when leaving the training center
__________________
Igor

RV-10 in progress
Build Log
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-12-2017, 03:52 PM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,488
Default You missed the point

No one said you shouldn't install a " third" static port.

Simply saying it is not necessary and highly unlikely that you will encounter
an in flight static port blockage much less on both sides of the airplane.

I know the sim can do it and I am quite certain I would have no trouble bringing the airplane home without a functioning pitot/static system and using
GPS information only, providing we would operate in RV-10 territory and altitudes. Ground speed is close enough for cruise and can be calculated quite closely once airport wind info is available. The delay in today's GPS equipment is
nearly imperceptible.

Crashes caused by pitot blockage are far more common and no one bothers to install 2 of those but we install a 3rd static port simply because it is easy to do.

Quote:
Case in point Air France 447
When ice crystals blocked the plane's pitot tubes, which are part of a system used to determine air speed, the autopilot disconnected and the pilots did not know how to react to what was happening, the report said.
I'll rest my case if you can show me a crash report caused by a static line blockage.
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 400 plus hours
Over 2500 Gallons of E10 mogas burned
Don't believe everything you know.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-12-2017, 04:29 PM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
I'll rest my case if you can show me a crash report caused by a static line blockage.
A quick GOOGLE search came up with a 757 accident due to static port blockage and fatal for everyone onboard.

"Investigation results showed that the aircraft's three static ports on the left side were obstructed by masking tape. The tape had been applied before washing and polishing of the aircraft prior to the accident flight."

ASN - 1996 AeroPeru B757 crash

__________________
Galin
CP, ASEL, AMEL, IR
St. Augustine, FL
www.puertoricoflyer.com

Last edited by GalinHdz : 02-12-2017 at 05:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:04 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 603
Default Umm...

That crash was caused by an improper preflight, not a static system failure...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-12-2017, 10:11 PM
terrye terrye is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
Simply saying it is not necessary and highly unlikely that you will encounter
an in flight static port blockage much less on both sides of the airplane.
In the case of RVs with the static ports located in the aft fuselage, I agree with you. Blockage of one or both by inadvertent icing from the outside is nearly impossible. Water trapped in the lines next to the static ports freezing at altitude is also very unlikely.

However, my Cessna has a single static port on the left side of the fuselage just behind the engine cowling, and this is a location that might become blocked in inadvertent icing. The regulations were written to include all cases.

I also agree with you not to take on the regulation makers on the issues of gascolator or alternate static ports, you just won't win that case. So for a couple of bucks for a switch, a tee and a plastic line, I'll be installing an alternate static source in my RV-9A. Even if I never use it, I'll get peace of mind knowing it's there.
__________________
Terry Edwards
RV-9A (Fuselage)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-13-2017, 05:58 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
That crash was caused by an improper preflight, not a static system failure...
No, the crash was due to pilot error which was caused by static system failure. The static system failed due to improper maintenance and improper pre-flight. Proof, IMHO, that a static system failure can cause a fatal crash.

His question was a crash caused by static system failure.

__________________
Galin
CP, ASEL, AMEL, IR
St. Augustine, FL
www.puertoricoflyer.com

Last edited by GalinHdz : 02-13-2017 at 06:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-13-2017, 06:15 AM
Auburntsts's Avatar
Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dumfries, VA
Posts: 2,155
Default

Personally I'm more concerned with an iced fuel vent than a static line. A blocked static line I can deal with - a blocked vent not so much especially if the other tank is already low/empty.
__________________
Todd Stovall
PP ASEL-IA
RV-10 N728TT - Flying!
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-13-2017, 07:20 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 603
Default Well, it depends...

It depends on your perspective. Was it pilot error? Absolutely...

I would say that the error was made during the preflight. A proper preflight would have prevented the accident altogether, which is why you do a preflight.

Considering there was nothing wrong with the static system other than tape over the ports...well, I guess it is just semantics whether you say it was a failed system or not. Again, a proper preflight would have yielded a perfectly normal static system, with virtually no chance of an inflight failure.

As an aside, with many, many hours in the 757, flying it in that condition would have been a challenge...unfortunately, our experimental aircraft avionics are LIGHT YEARS ahead of what most airliners have.
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-13-2017, 07:48 AM
Walt's Avatar
Walt Walt is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 4,288
Default

I'm pretty sure the aircraft washers in the 757 accident used CLEAR tape to cover the ports..... virtually impossible to spot.
__________________
Walt Aronow, Dallas, TX (52F) RV7A, IO360, C/S, 1500+hrs

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:01 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.