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  #1  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:17 PM
asw20c asw20c is offline
 
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Location: Edgewood, NM
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Default P60G2

I have chosen to use Van's recommended wash primer for my RV14 build, and am just about ready to prime my first parts. After deburring and scotchbriting, are you supposed to do a final cleaning of the part before priming? With what do you clean? Mineral spirits? Some other solvent? Water?
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:59 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw20c View Post
I have chosen to use Van's recommended wash primer for my RV14 build, and am just about ready to prime my first parts. After deburring and scotchbriting, are you supposed to do a final cleaning of the part before priming? With what do you clean? Mineral spirits? Some other solvent? Water?
Isopropyl alcohol works. The paint store also sells a grease and wax remover which is a preferred solution.
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2017, 08:17 PM
Wunderon Wunderon is offline
 
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I used acetone
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2017, 08:53 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Cleanser

Grey Scotch Brite and Bon Ami.

On my soapbox.
Answer depends on the time elapsed after Scotch Brite. Aluminum Oxide (AO) reforms on aluminum in a few hours. AO is hydrophobic. Paint doesn't stick to it very well. Solvents don't remove it. Yes, they do remove oils. The best way to remove oils and AO is to scrub with an abrasive and cleanser. The abrasive will remove the AO layer and the cleanser will remove contamination leaving a scuffed, AO free surface ready for mechanical adhesion. Plus no handling solvents.
My preference is grey Scotch Brite and Bon Ami. Scrub well then rinse thoroughly. Dry and paint within two hours. If curious, take two samples. One wiped with a solvent. One treated as above. Wet them both under a faucet. If the surface is hydrophilic, it will sheen with a layer of water. That's a surface ready to accept paint. If it's hydrophobic, water will dribble like droplets on the surface. Prime them both. Apply some Gorilla tape then rip it off.

Dilute P60G2 1 part primer to 2 parts catalyst and spray only till a faint green color change is seen. It gets darker as it sets.
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Last edited by wirejock : 01-21-2017 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Replaced original text
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2017, 09:21 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
On my soapbox.
Answer depends on the time elapsed after Scotch Brite. Aluminum Oxide (AO) reforms on aluminum in a few hours. AO is hydrophobic. Paint doesn't stick to it very well. Solvents don't remove it. Yes, they do remove oils. The best way to remove oils and AO is to scrub with an abrasive and cleanser. The abrasive will remove the AO layer and the cleanser will remove contamination leaving a scuffed, AO free surface ready for mechanical adhesion. Plus no handling solvents.
My preference is grey Scotch Brite and Bon Ami. Scrub well then rinse thoroughly. Dry and paint within two hours. If curious, take two samples. One wiped with a solvent. One treated as above. Wet them both under a faucet. If the surface is hydrophilic, it will sheen with a layer of water. That's a surface ready to accept paint. If it's hydrophobic, water will dribble like droplets on the surface. Prime them both. Apply some Gorilla tape then rip it off.

Dilute P60G2 1 part primer to 2 parts catalyst and spray only till a faint green color change is seen. It gets darker as it sets.

Off my soap box now!
I have been using P60G2 for 25+ years, and based on that experience I agree with everything Larry says above (including the mix ratio which is a bit higher in catalyst than S.W. specifies.... just buy a gal of primer and two gal of catalyst and you are set).

I will add that P60G2 is a self etching primer (the catalyst/reducer has a low percentage of Phosporic Acid), which makes it much more tolerant to less than ideal surface prep. Even development of AO.
On parts that will not be exposed to any level of abrasion such as wing ribs, bulkheads, etc. I never spend a lot of time scuffing the surface (because of flanges, and irregular shapes this can be very time consuming), but I do clean the parts very well. BTW, Naptha (colman fuel) is a very good cleaning solvent and is one of the majority ingredients in surface prep cleaners.

On parts that might be exposed to abrasion (cockpit area parts, etc.), and skins because they are relatively easy to do, I put extra effort into scuffing to assure good adhesion and then spray as soon as possible. The light coating is very important... just enough to make the surface wet. A heavy coating does not cure properly, and an excessively heavy coating can often be easily scraped off even a scuffed surface after it has cured.
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2017, 07:10 AM
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ChrisMallory ChrisMallory is offline
 
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On another chain, there were several discussions of brushing on Variprime615 with good success. Has anyone tried brushing P60G2 in the same fashion?
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:37 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMallory View Post
On another chain, there were several discussions of brushing on Variprime615 with good success. Has anyone tried brushing P60G2 in the same fashion?
Yes i have tried brushing on p60g2.
I would say it worked well, but came out blotchy. See me blog. The stuff may not have been mixed up all the way because I tried it when I first got the gallon, before I invested in a spray gun and before I had the gallon shaken to bits at a paint store. But that being said, I have some replacement parts coming this week and will probably prime those with brush. I used a paper towel as the applicator. I tried a foam brush but it got all funky probably due to the chemical incompatibility. Here is picture from my blog.
It actualy went on way too heavy. after having spray primed the tail, I now know the brush on can be very light
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Last edited by PilotjohnS : 01-21-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:49 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotjohnS View Post
Yes i have tried brushing on p60g2.
I would say it worked well, but came out blotchy. See me blog. The stuff may not have been mixed up all the way because I tried it when I first got the gallon, before I invested in a spray gun and before I had the gallon shaken to bits at a paint store. But that being said, I have some replacement parts coming this week and will probably prime those with brush. I used a paper towel as the applicator. I tried a foam brush but it got all funky probably due to the chemical incompatibility. Here is picture from my blog.
It actualy went on way too heavy. after having spray primed the tail, I now know the brush on can be very light
I would not recommend brushing it because of my previous comment about getting it too heavy and it not properly curing.
In this photo, the proper application is the very lightest areas.
Because it is so thin/watery, it can be sprayed easily in an airbrush or other small sprayer which is helpful for the occasional small parts. Even these spars would be easy with an airbrush. I would use a regular gun for skins though.
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Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 01-21-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2017, 12:26 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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Default agreed

I agree with Scott. Much better to spray. Using an airbrush trick might be the ticket. On my spars I brushed above, everything cured fine and they passed the Gorilla tape test, so I am leaving them as is.
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2017, 10:14 PM
Oliver Oliver is offline
 
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Location: Novi, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
Grey Scotch Brite and Bon Ami. [...]
Is scuffing really necessary or does it posibly even do more harm than good? How does Van's prepare their quickbuild kits before applying P60G2?

We are currently considering to switch to P60G2 for the tailcone, but only if it provides significant time savings over PreKote / Stewart. If I still have to scuff everything, this would however probably not be the case.

I understand that SW requires "light sanding" only for stainless steel:
Untreated Metals: steel, galvanized or zinc coated steel, aluminum, brass, copper, etc. Light sanding/abrading is required for stainless steel.

SW also warns to not use it on sandblasted surface:
Do not apply P60G2 over sandblasted metal. This product does not have enough solids to cover the blast profile and to provide suitable protection.

Admittedly, Scotch Brite is not sandblasting, but I am still wondering if the P60G2 might still not be able to fully cover the scuff marks, while at the same time Scotch Bright has reduced / removed the Alclad layer!?
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