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  #1  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:18 PM
Xkuzme1's Avatar
Xkuzme1 Xkuzme1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 259
Default Ellison EFS-4 Install on 0-320 160HP (D1A)

So I have decided to make my first major alteration to my airplane. I was not the builder. I am handy and normally do all my own maintenance, but to be honest, carburators and fuel systems have always always been an area of personal frustration.

I bought an Ellison TBI that has never been used but has been sitting on a shelf in a hangar for 8 years (in the box and a bag). I bought the honeycomb to control the Venturi turbulence.

From everything that I have read, it should be as close to a direct replacement as it gets. My throttle cable and mixture cable are the single shaft push/pull version. I have an air box with carb heat that fits the cowling very tight.

My fuel system is plumbed as follows.
From the:
Tank
Selector
Fuel pump
Gascilator (that has a non insulated heat shield around it)
Electric primer (plumbed from the gascilator)
a well insulated, fire sleeved fuel line to the carb (now TBI).

So I'd like to see if anyone has any advice before I start the install.

Thanks for any help and advice that anyone can offer.

X
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0-320 (160HP) Sensenich Metal Prop
N617TN
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:03 PM
mvs163 mvs163 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 102
Default Ellison

I've had Ellisons on 4 Lycomings including an 0-320 powered RV-3 and my current single seat clipped wing -4.
Excellent hot starts, no high pressure fuel, better fuel economy than the carb and aerobatic.
Vans sells(or did) an air box kit for the Ellison which I used on my -3, I also used the grid since the vertical distance is minimal with the vans airbox.
You will most likely need a longer throttle cable as the slide on the Ellison operates spanwise, your throttle cable will need to pass thru the firewall close to the side to make the 90 degree turn.
Your fuel line from the gascolator to the carb will most likely need to be changed. You mentioned a boost pump upstream of the gascolator, i'm assuming you have a gascolator rated for pressure.
Also, follow the Ellison Instruction Manual, I've purchased the last 3 units from people who were unsuccessful. they are not an automatic swap with a carburetor.
Mike
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:47 PM
JonJay's Avatar
JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 3,643
Default

The Ellison manual has an excellent section on air box design and installation. If you don't have one, get that in your hands. You need volume to minimize the incoming ram air turbulence for the spray rod to work effectively.
I can't say enough good things about mine, which is on the Bucker.
The air box is about the same diameter of Vans but twice the height/volume. I know of a few RV's running the standard air box and they seem just fine, but I am not sure how well they meter.
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RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2017, 09:12 AM
daddyman's Avatar
daddyman daddyman is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 198
Default But why the carb heat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xkuzme1 View Post
So I have decided to make my first major alteration to my airplane. I was not the builder. I am handy and normally do all my own maintenance, but to be honest, carburators and fuel systems have always always been an area of personal frustration.

I bought an Ellison TBI that has never been used but has been sitting on a shelf in a hangar for 8 years (in the box and a bag). I bought the honeycomb to control the Venturi turbulence.

From everything that I have read, it should be as close to a direct replacement as it gets. My throttle cable and mixture cable are the single shaft push/pull version. I have an air box with carb heat that fits the cowling very tight.

My fuel system is plumbed as follows.
From the:
Tank
Selector
Fuel pump
Gascilator (that has a non insulated heat shield around it)
Electric primer (plumbed from the gascilator)
a well insulated, fire sleeved fuel line to the carb (now TBI).

So I'd like to see if anyone has any advice before I start the install.

Thanks for any help and advice that anyone can offer.

X
I do not believe a carb heat device is required with TBI.
Others may disagree, but this seems like a belt and suspenders.

I like the Elison TBI.
I'm not knocking it.

Daddyman
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2017, 09:26 AM
JonJay's Avatar
JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 3,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyman View Post
I do not believe a carb heat device is required with TBI.
Others may disagree, but this seems like a belt and suspenders.

I like the Elison TBI.
I'm not knocking it.

Daddyman
Well documented in the Ellison manual. They can ice up. An alternate heated air source is required.
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Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.

RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2017, 11:50 AM
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YellowPeril YellowPeril is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bowdoinham
Posts: 164
Default

I've got about 1,300 hours on my RV-8 with an O360/Ellison combination.

I am the builder.

Ditto what Mike said.

However, due to the overall height of the TBI, I was forced to modify the Vans FAB in order to get the FAB inlet to match up to the 'snout'. Your airflow straightener may not make that necessary.

I have heat shields / blast tubes around the mechanical fuel pump and the in-line fuel filter, and hot days I still have fuel vaporization problems, but the electric boost pump will overcome them.

I originally had a gascolator, but ripped it out.

From what I've read and learned from others and experienced first-hard is that the Ellison TBI is very particular regarding air inflows and air temperatures.

Different airbox and airframe designs result in very different results.

I have a friend who's an ACE (Aerobatic Competency Evaluator) who you probably have heard of or seen in the pages of Sport Aviation, who has an O-360/Ellison combo attached to his unlimited (MX-type) aerobat. The airbox, TBI orientation (naturally) is very different than on my RV-8, and our experiences are (naturally) very different...for instance, I can't really run my TBI WOT without inordinately richening the mixture...he can't run his at any throttle setting at mixture setting besides full rich...

We've both scratched our heads over that...

Nevertheless, I think that the Ellison (or Rotec - they're near identical) TBI is a satisfactory choice, and an improvement over a carb.

Every year, however, I say to myself..."Hmm...let's convert the old girl to FI.."

Maybe one day I'll do it...
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RV8 N80549 (First Flight 2003)
Aerosport O-360A1A, Dual LS CDIs, WW200C
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2017, 06:42 PM
Xkuzme1's Avatar
Xkuzme1 Xkuzme1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 259
Default

So I have read many people saying that their airbox that was purpose built for their carburator had worked just fine for the TBI. Is it foolish to install it and try install it without altering my airbox and hoping for the best?

Where is the best place to buy a different throttle cable that is slightly longer to allow me the e tea to mount it for the 90 degree different from where it sits now?

Seems that this install is possibly a bit more work than I initially thought.

X
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2017, 07:26 PM
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Alan Carroll Alan Carroll is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 729
Default

I installed an Ellison on my RV-8 some years ago. I would not say it was a particularly difficult installation, but it wasn't "plug and play" either. It required a custom spacer to keep the airbox lined up with the intake on the cowl, and some custom-made control cable brackets. It was also a bit finicky getting the idle adjusted. Once I had it set up it worked fine, but I saw little if any performance or fuel economy difference compared to the carb. Ultimately I ended up reinstalling the carb because its not finicky and requires no special attention. I think the Ellison is a great idea if you want inverted capability or like to experiment however.
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RV-8 N12AC
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:59 PM
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Hawg Driver Hawg Driver is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Posts: 49
Default Worth it if you want fan to keep spinning upside down

I, also not a builder but consider myself mechanically handy, replaced carb with Ellison TBI. Used original AirBox and have great results. Slightly Modified exisiting carb heat to fit, original throttle cable worked although took quite a bit of rerouting. Had to install all new mixture cable, just couldn't make it work...plus had to adjust the mixture handle/cable hardware quite a bit because the throw required for the throttle body was quite different than the carburetor. Also I had to install a priming system because mine originally did not have one. I was also forced to fabricate some new mounting sheet metal around the throttle body for all the attachments to work.

Keeping a consistent idle was difficult as the seasons changed, however I have since installed an electronic ignition which has helped my idle problems a great deal.

It is a bit of work but a requirement if you want to keep the engine spinning while upside down. For what I do use the airplane for it was very much worth it.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2017, 11:59 AM
TIPSYNIPPER TIPSYNIPPER is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ardleigh, Essex, UK
Posts: 43
Default Air flow straightener

I found the Rotec to be a very poor copy of the Ellison, long term problems will include failure of the spray bar seals, that is if you get it to run properly in the first place.
I suffered an engine failure at 1000ft in the climb-out with a new Mk2 unit that had been poorly built (search my other posts).
The best and easiest solution for the airflow straightener is a Bosch Mass airflow meter, cut the end off and bolt it to the air filter flange:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/627222...57647983156255

Airflow disturbance at the entry to the Rotec TBI may cause poor running due to turbulence around the spray bar, one symptom of this may be poor mixture distribution or rough/uneven running at any throttle opening above idle. To address this issue a honeycomb Air Flow Straightener is used sourced typically from Mercedes 200 motorcar. The materials are high strength injection moulded plastic designed with under-bonnet conditions in mind. The honeycomb has a stainless steel mesh behind to catch any large debris.
The Air Flow Straightener (AFS) is the front end of an Air Mass Meter as fitted to some cars, Bosch Pt# : 0 280 217 114 refers.

( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-A...QAAOSwjDZYidFg )

The housing is cut just behind the flange that would normally accept the original air filter, the remainder of the housing is discarded. The AFS flange should be machined flat in a lathe or surfacing machine to ensure a flush fit against the air filter top plate.
Four stand-offs are machined from alloy bar as per drawing #1.
Four retaining washers are required as per drawing #1.
Four UNC x 25mm bolts retain the AFS through the washers and stand-offs.
Once tightened the bolts must be safety lock-wired.
Neil
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