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  #1  
Old 04-25-2014, 04:06 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,000
Default Operating Limits Seem Conflicting

My aircraft was licensed in 2012. I have been considering installing a VOR receiver so I can legally file IFR since even in VMC it greatly simplifies travel in the LA basin and near San Diego. I checked my operating limits and found these two items that seem to conflict with each other, because my phase 2 limits say both apply. The first seems to preclude IFR, while the second leaves the door open after equipment installation:

10. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.
11. After completion of phase 1 flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.

Does everyone else have both these limitations in phase 2? Does #11 trump #10? Are my limits in error to carry #10 into phase 2?
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2014, 04:36 PM
Seaflyer16 Seaflyer16 is offline
 
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Do they trump the warning on page 3-2 of the POH?
WARNING Flight in IFR conditions is prohibited.
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Salt Lake City, UT
#120414 N160BD RV-12 Flying
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2014, 05:14 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
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Location: Peel, AR
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When built as an ELSA, the POH is part of the as-equipped ELSA. IFR capability is not an ELSA option. You can modify the POH to reflect new equipment as you modify the plane once past Phase 1.
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2014, 05:23 PM
Seaflyer16 Seaflyer16 is offline
 
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O.K. My ops limit #10 indicates Phase1 only.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2014, 06:17 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Haven't checked the POH, but the POH is not my legal operating limits. I wonder if the DAR screwed up and kept #10 in phase 2 when #11 was the correct limit for phase 2. Can some of you guys weigh in on what your OLs say?

Thanks,

Rich
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2014, 07:05 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Cut and pasted directly from FAA Order 8130.2G

(7) During Phase 1 flight testing, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.
(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night
and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under
VFR, day only.

This is the wording that should be in your op limitations.
The absolute limitation of no IFR is Phase 1 only.
After that it is allowed if properly equipped.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2014, 09:19 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Mine was the first ELSA this DAR did. I think he got it wrong. I sent him a note, and I am awaiting a reply.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2014, 11:49 AM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Update: my DAR agrees the OLs need to be changed to make the absolute day VFR restriction phase 1 only. Phase 2 will lift the restriction if properly equipped.
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2014, 12:04 PM
cactuspilot cactuspilot is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Interesting.....has anyone been flying their 12 IFR?

I can see the advantage not wanting to get stuck on those sorta vfr/ifr days.

Is subbing in a navcom and antenna enough?

Would you need a second screen, Ahrs and gps and alternate static source to be legal? Heated pitot?

Then that brings the whole amperage issue back into play.

****...thx for adding another future project....back to my pp kit.
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Last edited by cactuspilot : 04-29-2014 at 12:06 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2014, 12:25 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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You guys are assuming IFR means IMC. My intent is to legally be "in the system" when flying into SOCAL airspace VMC. It is much easier to move through the LA basin under ATC control, but they don't seem to want to provide VFR flight following. The concerns many of you seem to have are the reliability of the RV-12 avionics. Not really a concern in VMC. Besides there are plenty of EAB aircraft flying in IMC with non-TSO'd avionics so the RV-12 is not unique in that respect. As usual what is legal and what is prudent are not always the same. I seek legality so I can exercise my prudence.
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