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  #1  
Old 03-13-2017, 08:10 AM
clutch22 clutch22 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bartlesville, OK
Posts: 196
Default Flaps configuration - G3x

Hey guys. I'm having some trouble configuring my flaps with G3x and POS-12.
Most of the time my G3x system doesn't want to deploy the first notch of flaps. I will have to hold the switch down for several seconds which will bypass the predefined selections until the switch is released. Once I do this, everything works fine. It will go to all my preset flap angles. When I fully retract the flaps, the flap motor will continuously run for about 3-4 seconds until I guess the G3x times out. I'm guessing my problem is that the POS-12 sensor isn't always reaching the required voltage for reflex flap setting and so the motor keeps running until it times out. In fact, I've tried to re-calibrate the POS-12 at the reflex position a few different times. If memory serves me right each time I calibrate that position, the voltage may vary slightly from ~9.64v to ~9.50 volts. I know about the unreliable outputs that the POS-12 delivers at its extremes and I tried to stay away from those ends of the travel. I'm hesitant to try to readjust my POS-12 throw because I'm skeptical that it will fix the problem, because in the reflex position the flap is right up to the aft spar/end of flap motor travel. Therefore, the POS-12 voltage output would have to be dead-on every time for the flap motor to quit running immediately when they are retracted. And the fact that the flap motor keeps running for a few seconds, doesn't bother me, it's that the switch wont deploy them again unless I hold it down to get it to bypass.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2017, 07:37 PM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Andrew,
As I recall, the flap motor will coast after shut off. You need to set the stop position to the point where the motor quits "coasting". Try setting your reflex position to stop just prior to where the flaps are nested. See if that helps. The other thing that could be affecting it is if the POS12 is reaching it's limit prior to the flap reaching the reflex nested position. Watch the voltage on the screen or attach a voltmeter to determine if the arm is set appropriately.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:21 AM
Mark H Mark H is offline
 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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I appear to be having the same issue. I am certain my POS-12 doesn't hit its limits before the flaps. Any insight would be much appreciated!
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:24 AM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Are you using the Vertical Power system?
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2017, 09:23 AM
Mark H Mark H is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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I am not using the Vertical Power system. My POS-12 is wired to position inputs in the GEA24 and the flaps wired to the GAD27 as recommended in the manual. I have assumed I am missing something on the configuration pages, but I have searched the installation manual and configuration menus and have yet to find my error.

Thanks!

Mark
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2017, 11:51 AM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clutch22 View Post
Hey guys. I'm having some trouble configuring my flaps with G3x and POS-12.
Most of the time my G3x system doesn't want to deploy the first notch of flaps. I will have to hold the switch down for several seconds which will bypass the predefined selections until the switch is released. Once I do this, everything works fine. It will go to all my preset flap angles. When I fully retract the flaps, the flap motor will continuously run for about 3-4 seconds until I guess the G3x times out. I'm guessing my problem is that the POS-12 sensor isn't always reaching the required voltage for reflex flap setting and so the motor keeps running until it times out. In fact, I've tried to re-calibrate the POS-12 at the reflex position a few different times. If memory serves me right each time I calibrate that position, the voltage may vary slightly from ~9.64v to ~9.50 volts. I know about the unreliable outputs that the POS-12 delivers at its extremes and I tried to stay away from those ends of the travel. I'm hesitant to try to readjust my POS-12 throw because I'm skeptical that it will fix the problem, because in the reflex position the flap is right up to the aft spar/end of flap motor travel. Therefore, the POS-12 voltage output would have to be dead-on every time for the flap motor to quit running immediately when they are retracted. And the fact that the flap motor keeps running for a few seconds, doesn't bother me, it's that the switch wont deploy them again unless I hold it down to get it to bypass.
Hello Andrew,

It is probably best to contact us directly via email so we can share information more directly, but it sounds like you may be onto something with the flap position sensor.

You don't mention any issues with using zero flaps and lower, so this tells us the sensor and calibration are working well in that range.

You indicate that this is a "most of the time" problem, so this tells us that perhaps sometimes the pot settles into a location where it provides a voltage (resistance) that is too far outside the calibrated range of the sensor, so the system doesn't know where the flaps are.

When you bump the switch down to command it to move from the Reflex position to the Zero position, it doesn't know where the flap is, so doesn't risk moving it in the wrong direction.

This is just a guess since we haven't seen this before, but if you provide us with your flap position calibration table (screenshot) and show us the voltage readout for the flaps in the reflex position, perhaps we can figure out what is happening.

You might also provide some simulated air loads on the flaps when studying the output voltage in the reflex position to give us a range of observed voltages.

It may be as simple as just re-calibrating under the right conditions, or moving the sensor slightly so it doesn't run out of range before the flaps are parked in the reflex position. Of course, this might cause a full flaps problem.

To others reading, one can always hold the flap switch in the up or down position and force the flaps to move, but having an issue like you describe causes partial loss of the full automation features the GAD27 provides based on the flap position sensor input.

Thanks,
Steve
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2017, 12:08 PM
clutch22 clutch22 is offline
 
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Location: Bartlesville, OK
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Steve,
That is exactly what is happening. I'll spend some more time messing with it this weekend. Maybe I will adjust the sensor travel some more.

As Bill mentioned, I was thinking maybe there was a chance people were setting their reflex position to have a small (say ~1/16") gap to the aft spar. That would probably be enough to allow the POS to hit the calibrated voltage every time.

So, with that said, I'd be interested to know how many people with a similar setup (preset flap settings via POS-12) have their reflex against the aft spar, or have a small gap.

Thanks everyone.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2017, 01:14 PM
dspender dspender is offline
 
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Location: Bay City, MI
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I don't know if this will help you but I will share my experience. I have G3x Touch and VPX. Initially I used the position sense and it worked well on the ground. However in flight with full flaps deployed, I would fault the VPX and need to reset flaps before they would retract. In order to complete phase I, I changed the flaps to momentary to avoid a stuck flap in the event I needed to do a go around. At one point I repositioned the POS 12 slightly so it wound not go to either extreme of fully extended or fully retracted POS 12 piston. That made no difference. Now that phase I is completed I revisited the situation. I placed the flaps again in position sense and set the reflex position 6-8 mv shy of fully retracted and the full flap position 6-8 mv shy of fully extended. I now have a reflex, 3 degree, 15 degree and 30 degree position all of which work in flight as well as on the ground.

What I learned;
1) POS 12 sensor arm should not reach either full retraction or full extension
2) mV chosen for reflex or fully extended flaps should be 6-8 mV shy of their respective extremes
3) Don't give up. It's cool when it works.
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