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Intro and "F8" Raider Build Proposal

Hey guys,

I spoke with a couple Rocket builders and there are a few major challenges they brought up.

First, I was told that the fuselage skins on the F1 fuselage are specified as butt joints rather than lap joints and that Vince is adamant that they need to be this way. Is there an engineering strength reason for this, or is it for aerodynamic / cosmetic reasons? I was told that if they can be assembled as lap joints that the cost of bringing the fuselage to QB status will decrease very significantly.

I found what I think is a good deal on a fully assembled RV8 tail kit and an in-the-crate wing kit. The seller is asking a negotiable $4500 which sounds very reasonable. However, the wing kit is an early one from 2000, and Loyd wasn't sure if his spar carry-through would work. He said I'd have to just build the wings and see if it works... Any ideas here? I don't think I mind the slightly reduced aerobatic weight of the early wings since I don't plan to ever do anything beyond basic rolls and loops, but any input would be appreciated as to whether the early wings should work with the carry-through. It would be interesting to hear if Brad might have happened to use an early wing on his build.

I was also told that the aircraft is essentially built by taking a set of RV4 plans, and a set of HR2 plans and "figuring it out". Does anyone have actual plans for an F1 fuselage, or is it really a "make it work" kind of deal? Loyd said the flight controls are primarily made for RV8 parts, but didn't get much info on how much they'd have to be modified. How much experience / creativity / guesswork goes into the flight controls and other aspects of the finishing kit of the F1?

My main concern is my lack of experience, and the apparent lack of detailed instructions. It seems like lots of points of uncertainty for a guy that's never built a plane before... With my work on Blackhawks, everything is laid out in extreme detail in the Sikorsky manuals, and I've always had access to people with over a decade of experience working on that airframe.

As a side-note, I was told that as a low-time pilot with no TD time I should stick to the four-bangers. Not sure if others will second this, but sounds reasonable.

Thanks,

Steve
 
Um, some inaccuracies in there. Maybe stop in at our booth at Oshkosh and talk to me if you are going to be here. Or give me a call please. We can clear this up pretty quick.

I guess the best way to sum up this discussion is that we are making it possible to build a Rocket, we're not necessarily making it easy. You have to bring some experience to the table. On the other hand, the way we're doing is exactly the way it was done before pre- punched kits were available. It's not that big of a deal, but you do have a learning curve to contend with.

We're working towards getting QB kits underway again. However this requires a significant investment. There is no reasonable way to expect detailed instructions and a quick build kit to fall out of the sky. That's just the way it is in a declining pilot population, and small market. Nonetheless, we're in it for the long haul and make all of our decisions based on keeping the doors open and the lights on without taking anyone's money without providing them just compensation in parts, advice, and all the assistance we can offer.
 
Um, some inaccuracies in there. Maybe stop in at our booth at Oshkosh and talk to me if you are going to be here. Or give me a call please. We can clear this up pretty quick.

I guess the best way to sum up this discussion is that we are making it possible to build a Rocket, we're not necessarily making it easy. You have to bring some experience to the table. On the other hand, the way we're doing is exactly the way it was done before pre- punched kits were available. It's not that big of a deal, but you do have a learning curve to contend with.

We're working towards getting QB kits underway again. However this requires a significant investment. There is no reasonable way to expect detailed instructions and a quick build kit to fall out of the sky. That's just the way it is in a declining pilot population, and small market. Nonetheless, we're in it for the long haul and make all of our decisions based on keeping the doors open and the lights on without taking anyone's money without providing them just compensation in parts, advice, and all the assistance we can offer.

I would love to make it to Osh, but can't this year because of my drill dates for the National Guard.

Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing you guys. I fully understand that you are a small company serving a small customer base, and I'm really thankful that you guys are keeping the Rocket alive and innovating different builds with the 4-bangers and alternative wings, etc. I'm also really excited for your future products and further development of existing ones.

I'll give you a call whenever is good for you, but would also love to hear from others on the issues I brought up. I'm just starting to realize how much harder this build would be than an RV8, and I'm questioning whether it's the right call for me, with really no experience with experimental aircraft.
 
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The "difficulty" simply means that it takes longer and you'd have to figure more things out. It's not actually hard.

Incidentally, there's one more or less standard technique that works well for drilling holes in parts that overlap. Locate the holes on the bottom part first, drill those, and then back-drill through the front part.

Dave
 
Just another data point for you:

I feel like an Airplane is one of those things that's never really "completed." They just get to a point where they can safely fly.

I bought an already flying experimental. I've always enjoyed building and really want to build a plane in the future, but I'm very glad that I did it this way. I have plenty of opportunities to get my hands dirty. For example, solving some oil temperature issues I had (Alaska-built plane that moved to Alabama) allowed me to learn how to work with sheet-metal. Stuff that previously intimidated me, I now jump right into.

My recent project is putting ICS in the back seats. Originally it was just going to be adding wires to the existing 4-place intercom (only wired for the front two seats), but then I decided to re-wire the whole thing to eliminate some ground-loops in order to quiet all the EMI noise. It's been a fun project. I'm almost done, just need to re-pin the d-sub connector and put my panel back together. The nice thing is, when I'm done with this project I can go flying. If I was building, I'd have to rent or own a flying plane. I can't afford the cost of building plus renting or owning a second plane at this phase in my life.

For background, I previously was a "hands-on" MTP. So I had experienced people around me doing the real repair work, but I always enjoyed getting in and helping where I could. Some skills transfer, but it's intimidating to do it solo at first. Youtube, local Graybeards, and sites like these will be your best friends whether you buy a flying plane and take on projects or build your own.
 
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