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Theft Prevention - Key ignition or not

What security method do you have on your RV if any?

  • Have traditional Key ignition with mags L/R/B and start

    Votes: 73 40.6%
  • Have only switches (toggles, push) for Ignition and Start, not theift prevention

    Votes: 81 45.0%
  • Have alternate threft protection (hidden fuel or electrical cutoff)

    Votes: 21 11.7%
  • Protected from theift by a hungry Pit Bull and/or 12g shotgun

    Votes: 5 2.8%

  • Total voters
    180

gmcjetpilot

Well Known Member
So how many of you have a key "mag switch", e.g., the typical KEY switch, L & R & BOTH and CRANK.... verses just toggles and push button?

My thought is to put a kidden kill switch, hidden mechanical battery disconnect, fuel cutoff. So someone can't fly off. Any ideas.

How many RV's have been stolen. I recall one long ago, from a sad post by the owner.

Also if you care to chime in on your canopy lock (store bought or custom) of any RV model that would be great as well.
 
I have a key but if I build another will do a push start.

Is airplane theft a problem? (seriously, don't know)

I know some fields have a problem with people stealing fuel.

Also .. the key switch is hardly secure .. maybe the placebo effect would work :p
 
Push button starter and toggles for the mags and no door locks. If they want it that bad they can have it.
 
Key switch

Why don't you put a key switch (not a mag switch) inline with your starter push button?

i-rpWrZ4L-L.jpg
 
The ultimate in peace of mind that no one will get away with theft of your investment:https://youtu.be/CMgNpv-wJb4?t=2

For a less destructive approach consider a key switch on the panel with the start position connected to a 300KV strobe capacitor discharging to brass rivets on the seat cushion. Virtually as effective as a taser. https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/fs4400.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgobv0_uT4wIVB7zACh0gTA3jEAQYAiABEgJHoPD_BwE
In stock at aircraft Spruce. The bulb leg leads can easily replaced by 18 ga. leads in a few seconds.
 
I hate traditional key igntion switches. I use a locking toggle switch for each ignition and a push button starter switch.

Theft is not my primary concern. I worry about some kid climbing in and managing to crank the engine and kill someone standing near the prop.

On the first RV I used a key switch in line with the starter solenoid power, but as most key switches will not handle the starter solenoid current the key switch just provided power to a relay that then provide power to the solenoid. On the second RV I just used a hidden toggle switch in line with the starter solenoid. Jury is still out on what I?ll use for the new project.

I also do not have locks on doors/canopies. I?d rather they not break in to steal an easily replaced (and tracked) radio.

Carl
 
No pitbull.

I cannot confirm, comment, correct, or deny about the shotgun or any other firearm.

I'm scared of firearms. I lost all of mine some time ago in a tragic boating accident and I'm scared to replace them. :cool:
 
Push to start, toggle switches on Pmags.

Key switch on start circuit only (not master) that can be locked on or off (with 5 minute bypass requiring only a screw driver for the knowledgeable).

Small ?luggage? lock on canopy latch - deters sticky fingers but hopefully easier to break lock than canopy for the serious avionics thief.
 
Why don't you put a key switch (not a mag switch) inline with your starter push button?

i-rpWrZ4L-L.jpg

This is how I did the RV 10 when I switched from Slick Lasar with standard key switch, to the SDS CPI.

New plane is going to get something very similar.
 
After being reminded by my commercial/military airplane flying buddies that real airplanes don't have keys, and in an effort to simplify my system, I removed my key switch some 10 years ago and installed toggle ignition switches and a momentary start button. No problems since.

As for being targeted, my horse - she is a good one. Very honest and reliable. But she's not flashy or top of the line. Someone wanting to steal a plane likely is not going after mine. They'll get the one with $25,000 of avionics or the high wing 206 to haul herbs.
 
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If somebody really wants to steal your airplane, you can't stop it. Good avionics are at a much higher risk of theft than the whole airplane.

FWIW: Theft protection is just another reason I pay insurance. Locks only keep honest people honest.

:cool:
 
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If somebody really wants to steal your airplane, you can't stop it. Good avionics are at a much higher risk of theft than the whole airplane.

FWIW: Theft protection is just another reason I pay insurance. Locks only keep honest people honest.

:cool:

Basically my thought process. I didn't add any theft prevention devices to my motorcycles either (beyond what they came with stock).
 
On my -4, this is my setup:

1. No key switch... but one day I may incorporate a simple hidden on/off toggle to allow/deny completion of the starting circuit.

2. For master/start I have a double pole/three position (Off/On/Momentary start) toggle switch with a lockout between off/on.

3. P-mags have separate double pole/three position switches. (Off/On/momentary ground). These switches also have a lockout between off/on.

4. No canopy lock. A lock, for the most part, only keeps an honest person honest. When I?m traveling somewhere and I?m leaving my airplane tied down outside for more than a few hours, I deploy my canopy cover. Out of sight/out of mind usually works pretty well.
 
Not flying yet but I plan to use two double pole, Off-On-Mom switches for the mags, where simultaneous momentary action on both switches grounds the non impulse mag and activates the starter. As described in AEC and in in this VAF thread. Requiring simultaneous switch activation helps against accidental tomfoolery done by kids and tourists but not deliberate theft. Saves precious panel space compared to switches + button.
 
Theft is not my primary concern. I worry about some kid climbing in and managing to crank the engine and kill someone standing near the prop.

Carl

+1
Juries understand keys. They don't understand engines without them and would likely blame the owner. Sad world we live in.
 
So how many of you have a key "mag switch", e.g., the typical KEY switch, L & R & BOTH and CRANK.... verses just toggles and push button?

My thought is to put a kidden kill switch, hidden mechanical battery disconnect, fuel cutoff. So someone can't fly off. Any ideas.

How many RV's have been stolen. I recall one long ago, from a sad post by the owner.

Also if you care to chime in on your canopy lock (store bought or custom) of any RV model that would be great as well.

Previous discussion that pretty much covers these questions:

http://vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=169230&highlight=toggle
 
DETERRENT!!!

...I have a keyed master cutoff, that disables all electrical with the exception of
my main theft or tampering deterrent system. I also have a canopy lock that
would require a considerable amount of brutality to get in. If they did they would
immediately be very sorry! After entry they will become a soprano, making them
easier to identify and most likely unable to reproduce. Pretty much a win win!
Thanks, Allan..:eek::eek:
 
Anyone who steals an E-AB is truly an idiot.

They are more likely to take the radios than the plane.
 
Standard Vans setup

I have the standard Vans setup from 12 years ago, key switch and the slider lock that uses the same key. I did add a second position on the slider lock to lock the canopy open about 6 inches which is enough to air it out when parked but closed enough to discourage the light fingered taking headsets, 796 etc. The nice thing about the keyed lock is that it makes sure the key is in my pocked and not in the ignition with the mags hot.

Not sure I have much worth stealing these days with 12 year old avionics except for the Bose and the 796 (and maybe the iPad).

I agree with the comments that a determined thief will probably get what they are after so my setup is to deter the casual opportunist, kind of like having a big dog to make the thief go elsewhere.
Figs
 
I wired mine so that in order for the start button to work a certain other switch has to be on also, one typically on in flight, but not one you would normally turn on during start procedure.

Simple, no key, but 1 layer of protection for kids, etc.


On a similar note I am putting a new ignition key switch in for an RV owner tomorrow, who did have someone try to steal his plane. Thief was not successful, but did manage to destroy and cut the old switch out of the plane while he was at another strip visiting.
 
Why don't you put a key switch (not a mag switch) inline with your starter push button?

i-rpWrZ4L-L.jpg

This was my solution. (BTW, I wouldn't label the keyswitch "STARTER"...I'd label it "STARTER ENABLE". But that's just me.).

I'm not worried about theft. I'm worried about somebody fiddling around and engaging the starter or mags (or worse, both). Key removed from keyswitch -> starter will not engage, impulse coupled mag cannot go hot.

BTW, I'm very wary about "hidden switches" or "automatic cut-offs" or any other "tricky" way of designing a system. Hidden things get forgotten, automatic things go automatic at the wrong time, etc. (Plus I find the idea of a hidden safety element a bit of a puzzler...). And lastly, it just seems kind of hokey...you built a nice, custom, relatively expensive airplane, and you can't figure out how to make a nice panel that includes a key to prevent killing someone?
 
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Your poll is missing the option a couple of us have indicated we use:

Keyswitch for starter enable, pushbutton for starter engage (toggles for mags).
 
I have the push button starter protected by the keyed switch labeled ?start enable?. I also have a ?trunk monkey? hiding in the back. You wouldn?t want to excite the trunk monkey - it would end badly for you.........
 
The RV-3B isn't flying yet. But it will have switches and a push to start button. No keyed ignition or start switches, but a keyed canopy lock for when I'm away from home. At home, it'll live in a locked hangar to which I am the only occupant and user.

I agree that the risk of airplane theft is fairly low. The risk of mischievous fooling around with things in the cockpit, if it were open, though, is probably fairly high. Small airplane, bright colors, gadgets there for kids of any age to play with. I think that's the main concern, not airplane theft.

Dave
 
I have the push button starter protected by the keyed switch labeled ?start enable?. I also have a ?trunk monkey? hiding in the back. You wouldn?t want to excite the trunk monkey - it would end badly for you.........

I was waiting for that :). I love Trunk Monkey!
 
In Australia the government decreed that after 9/11 all aircraft have to be secure against theft by terrorists/ We have to have either the cockpit locked, or an alternative means of preventing flight. The usual method is to fit a locking piece on the throttle. In my case a U shaped piece of steel held on the push - pull throttle by a padlock as required by government, which weighs a **** of a lot and it cannot be left unlocked with the key out, in other means you can only remove the key when it is locked. The locking cockpit door was a fiasco as the key had to be removable only when the door was locked. It stuck out into the airflow when unlocked. Typical of Australian bureaucracy.
 
Is stolen aircraft a real threat in the US? How many airplanes are actually stolen per annum? Bill?s comment about stealing an Experimental is right on IMO. The avionics would be the real target. Most airports, if not all, are secured these days. Even our home base has great lighting and a security gate. And we are in the rural mountains.
I lived and operated a charter operation for 10 years on a Caribbean island off the north coast of Honduras. A lot of theft going on in Honduras. We based on an unsecured, unattended airport with no lighting of any sort. When we first arrived I was also concerned about theft . I hired a night watchman for a few weeks until I realized that was a waste of money. The airplane was a Britten Norman Islander. The locks must have been fabricated by Mattel because they were worthless. In order to protect the avionics and keep the sun from destroying everything inside, remember this was the tropics, I had a cover made from sunbrella that covered the airplane from the windscreen to just aft of the aft door. In the 10 years we were there we never had the first incident. Two prop covers I had made were stolen. I imagine to be used as machete carriers. But other than that no problems.
I can?t imagine that here in the US there is a real concern for having an aircraft stolen. And like many have said, locks are to keep the honest people out. If someone truly wants to get in they will.
 
Two rocker switches and a starter pushbutton, no key

I’m somewhat surprised that nobody mentioned the risk of losing the key (unless I missed it).

I originally built KELLI GIRL with the classic keyed ignition switch. In 2015 when KELLI GIRL was being ferried back to Texas from Florida (the 3-week vinyl wrap job), the pilot accidentally dropped the key in the grass near the 100LL pump. It took him over 90 minutes to find the key. Until that point, she was grounded.

Within a week I replaced the keyed ignition with this Electroair ignition/start switch panel: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ea-ignswchpanel.php?clickkey=4214975

This panel costs WAY too much, and they don't have a cheaper experimental version, but it is neat, tight, and professional-looking, and quite robust. And no key to lose.

I agree with the others' comments: If somebody wants to steal my airplane, there's not much a keyed ignition will do to stop them. It's insured.
 
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My masters are controlled with a key. I do this just to make sure that my grandson, or any other person, cannot inadvertently engage the starter.
 
Exactly

My masters are controlled with a key. I do this just to make sure that my grandson, or any other person, cannot inadvertently engage the starter.

My thoughts exactly. My hangar is attached to my house and I have small kids. My plane doesn't have locks on the doors, but the key switch in the starter circuit was a no-brainer for me. Also, if someone gets in there and tries to bypass it and hurts themselves or someone else, they can't claim it was an accident...
 
Post 911....

After 911, the FAA was concerned about someone loading our airplanes with Anthrax, or other lethal poisons and encouraged us to add a switch, somewhere, in series with the master and hide it inside the cowling, near an air exit so we can easily reach it in order for the starter to turn.

One of my friends installed an added switch on his dash, labelled 911...:)

Best,
 
Like others, I used a keyed switch just for child safety. I have two little ones and plan to take them on many adventures, so there is some risk there. If I were to do it again, I would have a keyed starter and separate mag toggles.
 
I?m somewhat surprised that nobody mentioned the risk of losing the key (unless I missed it).

I originally built KELLI GIRL with the classic keyed ignition switch. In 2015 when KELLI GIRL was being ferried back to Texas from Florida (the 3-week vinyl wrap job), the pilot accidentally dropped the key in the grass near the 100LL pump. It took him over 90 minutes to find the key. Until that point, she was grounded.

I think you're overthinking the problem. The solution is...have a spare key made! I keep one in the airplane, tucked away along with it's mate, a duplicate of the hangar key.

A bit surprised this wasn't readily apparent.
 
After 911, the FAA was concerned about someone loading our airplanes with Anthrax, or other lethal poisons and encouraged us to add a switch, somewhere, in series with the master and hide it inside the cowling, near an air exit so we can easily reach it in order for the starter to turn.

That's just silly.

Think of all the cars and trucks that are stolen (some of which have been used in terrorist attacks), and nobody ever suggested putting "hidden switches" on your car.

I think the whole idea of "hidden switches" is, frankly, dumb. Just MHO.
 
I think you're overthinking the problem. The solution is...have a spare key made! I keep one in the airplane, tucked away along with it's mate, a duplicate of the hangar key.

A bit surprised this wasn't readily apparent.

Nah, I didn’t overthink it. My approach made the key(s) a non-issue. Hey, whatever works for each person.
 
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I found a good quality momentary key switch at DigiKey to engage the start relay. I use two toggle switches, one for the mag and one for the Lightspeed ignition. I like the idea that if that key is in my pocket, nobody's going to accidentally get the prop turning.
 
My ignition toggle switches are mounted in space shuttle guards from Perihelion Designs. I can install a cable lock through the guards that prevents the switch toggles from moving.

When out in public areas I put a collar on the "start" circuit breaker. It takes some considerable effort to remove it.

While the entry doors are lockable, the cabin cover really is the first line of deterrence.
 
Key Ignition

Keyed - L R Both and Crank - seemed simple at the time

Also when left in my open fronted, pole barn hangar I have a tiny padlock on the canopy latch - but a neighbor flyer questioned that and asked whether I'd rather have a determined someone steal my avionics from their trays, or smash my canopy and then steal my avionics from their trays? A good question!

Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Tip Up
 
I'm not flying yet, but I've installed a key switch. But not because I think it will prevent a theft. It's because I have lockable tank caps. Both keys are on the same collar. This prevents me from forgetting to lock a tank. Clearly with a Vans this should not be a problem, since one sees the tanks well. But I have flown high-wing aircraft so far and it has already happened that we have looked for such a cap...
 
Sad when we can't trust our fellow pilots out there, assuming the plane is being stolen by a pilot!
I bought my RV8 so got what I got. Has the Std Cessna type starter rotary keyed set up, works fine I won't bother changing it. I have a throttle lock that came wth the A/C but I never use it.
There's an old saying, locks are for honest thieves! As long as it's insured I sleep at night:)
 
We used to put hidden switches to kill the Master in our demo aircraft (when we were in the LSA business) because at Oshkosh and other shows, people would get switch happy to see the avionics, or kids would get in there and start flipping switches. So for our personal planes, we had this and didn't bother with the ignition switch. I think if I were to do it over again, I'd rather just have a key and a canopy/door lock. I like having my "airplane key" in my pocket. :)
 
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