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How to rent a 4 seater for family trips?

Russ McCutcheon

Well Known Member
I posted this in another thread but thought it needed its own thread.

Our RV-4 fills 90% of our mission requirement and we can only afford one airplane so we keep the RV-4 even though we wish we had a 4 seat airplane for family trips. So how do you rent a 4 seat airplane for those trips? The FBO will rent me an airplane but not if I want to take it anywhere. So what are you guys doing that always say to rent the 4 seater, what kind of deal do you guys have and how do you make it work?
 
Here in Chandler, AZ (where I rent) you have to be current with the rental facility, be checked out with one of their CFI's (this is not a BFR) and have rented/flown with them within certain time period. Then they'll block you out the time for the rental aircraft. They will charge per hour if it's a local/return trip. If your looking for longer day long trip or several days then it's a min. of X hours charged (flown or not) per day.
 
Here in Chandler, AZ (where I rent) you have to be current with the rental facility, be checked out with one of their CFI's (this is not a BFR) and have rented/flown with them within certain time period. Then they'll block you out the time for the rental aircraft. They will charge per hour if it's a local/return trip. If your looking for longer day long trip or several days then it's a min. of X hours charged (flown or not) per day.

Yes this is how it works here too, it?s the 4 hours minimum per day I can?t/won?t swing, ends up being $400+ per day for a 172, wondering if others have something different going or am I being too cheap.
 
Simple -- I go to the online scheduler and reserve it. The real problem, as I alluded to in the other thread is aircraft availability. Just about every FBO I've ever rented from you had to plan a few months ahead, particularly if you wanted a plane over a weekend. Otherwise even at 2 months out it can be impossible to get even a whole day. (eg 172s/182s, PA-28s, PA 200/201s, etc.)

Of course the higher performance aircraft (Columbia, Cirrus, Mooney, etc.) with high rental rates are more readily available and are usually very easy to schedule due to low demand.
 
That seems pretty typical, based on my experience. Flight schools and FBOs will never have much incentive to allow you to take their airplane for long periods of time without putting lots of billable hours on it. You might consider some kind of flying club or shared-ownership arrangement; often they are a little more relaxed about that sort of thing.
 
Yes this is how it works here too, it’s the 4 hours minimum per day I can’t/won’t swing, ends up being $400+ per day for a 172, wondering if others have something different going or am I being too cheap.

Well that's a different issue than they won't rent me an airplane to fly x-c.

That's a pretty standard requirement but 4/hrs per day is a bit high. I've seen as low as 2/hrs per day and the FBO I'm current at it's 3. But compared to the cost of ownership, for an occasional trip IMO it's doable. Some places will even negotiate that down on a trip by trip basis.

So if I fly somewhere 4 hours away for a 3-day get away, 2 days are covered by the trip down and back. It's the middle day where I'm not flying but having to the pay the min rental charge that's tough, but worth it in the end if it cuts my time sitting in traffic by at least half.
 
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Russ I have the same problem now that the grand kids are getting old enough to travel.
I have thought about building a RV-10 but do not want to give up the RV-9.
I have thought about joining the local club that has a 182 but that is $600 yearly before any flight time.
I know some people with 182's and have considered trying to make them a deal but to get on their insurance may take a minimum hours in type.
So I was getting my 61.56 (old BFR) the other day and the CFI mentioned a place that rents a newer 182. Since he does their checkrides that part would be easy.
They are a smaller operation so I think thavel is not an issue with them.
Hopefully it will work out for me.
Check around with some independent CFI's they tend to have these connections.
 
How about borrowing a friend's spam can for the weekend? Almost since day one of my 20 year flying career I've been able to borrow a 4 seater when needed. Perhaps I'm unusually lucky, but swapping airplanes among friends has always been "normal".
 
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Make friends with an RV-10 owner/builder who will put you on their insurance and let you borrow the airplane once in awhile....... :)
 
Same question, same answer:

There's lots of options...

Clubs work well... some have low dues, reasonable rental rates, and usually no daily minimums. The time you fly in a club plane to stay current will also give you some time to offer rides to people who are less "experimental" in nature.

Throw in some availability to fly while you're off line for maintenance or annual, maybe a plane you'd be more comfortable in IFR, etc... loads of reasons.

Once you know what "most of your flying" is, how many "need more" flying you expect you can get out the old excel worksheet and find the answer.

But remember, if you're going to go with club/rental for the bigger need flights, fly that plane often enough to be proficient. We're not talking about having smart car and rushing over to the rental desk when you need a suburban.
 
Borrowing an airplane is a good way to accommodate your needs and also to accommodate the needs of the aircraft owner. In my case I am fortunate to have access to a more capable aircraft. Its owner is an octogenarian who appreciates my help in doing the maintenance and "grunt work" on the airplane. We fly together so he always has a safety pilot (me) available to him. In return, when my wife and I need to travel, we have that more capable airplane available to us.

I'm very fortunate to have developed this mutually-beneficial relationship. I am certain that our aging pilot population is making for many more aircraft owners looking for a similar relationship. It takes a personal investment on our part, be it work, time, money or other resource, to balance the ledger in such a relationship, but from my experience I can say it is worthwhile.
 
dreaming

When I lived in the Charlotte area,there were a bunch us with two seat RV's. We tossed around two options.

1) Everyone pitch in and buy a spam can.

Or

2) Everyone pitch in and build an RV-10.

The deal was the every member of the club must own an a flying RV. The reason was that we did not want the four seater to become one person's primary aircraft.

Unfortunately, we never got beyond the talking stage. And now that we have moved to SC, like the rest of you, I need to find a four seat since my son has outgrown the baggage compartment.
 
For those borrowing airplanes, keep in mind that you may have substantial financial exposure unless you are a named insured. An open pilot clause will protect the owner but not you, should there be a mishap.
Insurance is a real issue. For those looking to form a club, or get on someone else's insurance, if you have low time in type, insurance is likely going to be expensive. FBO's generally pay a lot for insurance, one reason being that they will rent to low time in type pilots.
 
How about borrowing a friend's spam can for the weekend? Almost since day one of my 20 year flying career I've been able to borrow a 4 seater when needed. Perhaps I'm unusually lucky, but swapping airplanes among friends has always been "normal".

Pretty simple. Get on an RV-10 owner's insurance, put him on yours and swap hangar keys. If you want the four seater fly to its airport and leave yours for them to use while you have the station wagon; and vice-versa if the four seater pilot wants to get upside down.

This is how my nephew and I are planning on working it out. When I suggested he build an RV-10 for him, his wife and two girls his wife's comment was: "why would you want to build something you can't get upside down in?" here is his wife: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfHL1N3juj0

Solution, swap hangar keys and they have access to my RV-7A when they want to get upside down and I have access to the 4 seater when we want to do something with another couple.
 
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Yes this is how it works here too, it?s the 4 hours minimum per day I can?t/won?t swing, ends up being $400+ per day for a 172, wondering if others have something different going or am I being too cheap.

Everything's negotiable, especially higher up the food chain. When I was renting, no luck at all trying to schedule the 172's being banged around the pattern day in and day out, even a month ahead of time.

But the two 182's on the ramp were lucky to move more than once a week, so I could usually walk in a week ahead of time, propose a three-ish day trip putting 4 or so hours on the meter, and they were good with that, despite the 2 hours per day minimum.
 
Well that's a different issue than they won't rent me an airplane to fly x-c.

That's a pretty standard requirement but 4/hrs per day is a bit high. I've seen as low as 2/hrs per day and the FBO I'm current at it's 3. But compared to the cost of ownership, for an occasional trip IMO it's doable. Some places will even negotiate that down on a trip by trip basis.

So if I fly somewhere 4 hours away for a 3-day get away, 2 days are covered by the trip down and back. It's the middle day where I'm not flying but having to the pay the min rental charge that's tough, but worth it in the end if it cuts my time sitting in traffic by at least half.

Not to mention that it will take about 4 hours with a 172 to get to a place that take 4 hours with a car :)

With RV, that is typically an hour and half.
 
I'm in the same predicament. My wife is getting tired of being left behind as my son is my primary copilot. Now, if I could only find one of those friends that I could borrow a 4-seater from! :)

I've actually been looking at 4-seaters. This would be in addition to my RV-8. I would be sharing it with a long time friend of mine. We are looking at single engine Piper Commanche, Bonanza, Debonair, and even a Twin Commanche. One of my primary concerns is the time I would need to devote to another airplane. I already spend an inordinate amount of time flying and working on my own airplane. I can't imagine having to take care of another one! Lately, I haven't even had the time to look for another airplane.

We'll see. This is a good time for us to own a 4-seater. My son is almost 12 and it won't be long before he's off to college. Life only comes around once.

Jerry Esquenazi
RV-8 N84JE
 
My thought is to build the -10, Maybe with a partner like Russ (or two) and keep the two seater -8 as the personal plane for fun and many of the trips.
Then cost vs return would be reasonable, and sharing only one of two planes would be quite easy I believe.

PS; I can't go back to 110 knots...
 
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Same old song...

My experience with renting at the local flight school is similar, minimum number of hours per day, flying or not, except when I rented the C-182 RG. I paid a higher hourly rate but it was not one of the school's primary trainers so they were ok taking it a week without the minimum daily charge. At least around here it seems like the complex or HP planes sit more than train so the school was vey amenable.

I continue to be surprised we don't see more clubs. Not sure why...
 
110 knots

110 knots does suck but its really not noticeable on trips less than 100 miles. I picked up the Maule just for this purpose. 1000lb useful load on an 0-360 out of a short strip with 73 gals of fuel if needed. The Bearhawk would be similar. There is no way I could do what i do in a 172. 182 would get it done though. However, for the price and operating cost and the mission, it's hard to beat the Maule.
Cj



PS; I can't go back to 110 knots...
 
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