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Tip-up or slider on RV-7A
- Thread starter Maxrate
- Start date
msturgis
Well Known Member
Fellow Houstonian here... All I have to do is go out side on a day like we are having today, and my mind is made up. When I rode in the -7 slider, I knew it was the only way I could stand our Houston summers.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer,
The heat and confinement of bubble canopy,
Or to stick arms out of a slider canopy,
Tom,
Touche'..Living in south Texas that would of prime importance!
N941WR
Legacy Member
Have you ever ridden in a small roadster, such as a Miata or the last gen MR2?
The slider has the same problem for me. I wound up looking through the cross bow. No thanks! I elected to go for the unrestricted visibility of the tip-up.
You can prop it open when on the ground and the ventilation isn't bad, even on 98 + degree days. The trick is to get flying and climb to altitude with either.
As for difficulty, you will do what it takes to build either.
Story time...
I remember one of the early flights with my wife. Seeing something in the distance I just about broke my hand on the canopy point it out.
The slider has the same problem for me. I wound up looking through the cross bow. No thanks! I elected to go for the unrestricted visibility of the tip-up.
You can prop it open when on the ground and the ventilation isn't bad, even on 98 + degree days. The trick is to get flying and climb to altitude with either.
As for difficulty, you will do what it takes to build either.
Story time...
I remember one of the early flights with my wife. Seeing something in the distance I just about broke my hand on the canopy point it out.
Jim P
Well Known Member
You really need to go for a ride in each type and see for yourself as I'm not sure you'd find a lot of folks second-guessing their decisions so you'll get good points on both sides. I did the tipper as I was sold on the awsome visability, and the percieved ease of build. The second issue was only perceived, a tipper is still a lot of work to get aligned and fit correctly. Each has their own construction issues, but for me it was all about the visability in the air. Even on the ground up here in Seattle, it can get warm on the ground, but you can get a good draft by propping it up about 4 inches. Also, don't under estimate the ability to access your instruments, avionics, wiring, switches, breakers, etc, from the back of the panel without crawling under the panel and working on your back!
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Geico266
Well Known Member
+1
We have a winner! Flying in them isn't much different, working on the avionics after it is built is like day & night.
msturgis
Well Known Member
I'm up in The Woodlands. Been hanging out with the guys up at Conroe.
Have you come to any of the Houston Area RV Builder group get togethers?
msturgis
Well Known Member
If you ever make it up here to Conore, I can show you one builders solution for woking avionics with a slider.
-Matt
832-969-2138
Mark,
We have both a Tip-Up -6 and a Slider -8 in our hangar here at Polly ranch in Friendswood, and I like them both! I love the way the sliding canopy works and looks on the -8, and I also love the unrestricted visibility in the -6. I am trying to figure out how to do both on the -3 that we are building.
That said, both are HOT on the ground until you crack the canopy. Once you pull the power on downwind, you can literally feel the heat building in the cockpit with the airflow reduced at pattern speeds. We crack either as soon as we get slowed down below flying speed on the runway. That's Houston!
Paul
We have both a Tip-Up -6 and a Slider -8 in our hangar here at Polly ranch in Friendswood, and I like them both! I love the way the sliding canopy works and looks on the -8, and I also love the unrestricted visibility in the -6. I am trying to figure out how to do both on the -3 that we are building.
That said, both are HOT on the ground until you crack the canopy. Once you pull the power on downwind, you can literally feel the heat building in the cockpit with the airflow reduced at pattern speeds. We crack either as soon as we get slowed down below flying speed on the runway. That's Houston!
Paul
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Slider for sure!
If I didn't have the capability of throwing open a slider during taxi for takeoff, and just after landing......................I'd just shrivel up and want to die in this desert heat! RV bubbles are like green houses, and the wee bit of ease on working behind the panel doesn't compare to the many hours of combined travel between the runway and hangar. There is nothing like throwing that bubble open and stretching your arm over the side, as the prop blast cools the face. Just doesn't happen with a claustrophobic tip up!
L.Adamson --- RV6A slider
If I didn't have the capability of throwing open a slider during taxi for takeoff, and just after landing......................I'd just shrivel up and want to die in this desert heat! RV bubbles are like green houses, and the wee bit of ease on working behind the panel doesn't compare to the many hours of combined travel between the runway and hangar. There is nothing like throwing that bubble open and stretching your arm over the side, as the prop blast cools the face. Just doesn't happen with a claustrophobic tip up!
L.Adamson --- RV6A slider
Slider
I have flown both and the visibility argument is not meaningful in my opinion. I travel in my airplane and on almost every cross country flight I deploy the shade for comfort. I have built a slider and it is a part of the airplane that you need to spend a lot of thought and careful work on to end up with the best installation you can get. It is not a part of the plane that you want to muddle through in a semiconscious state and hope for the best.
Tip up canopies are more vulnerable to many failure (damage) modes.
Working under the panel has never been a problem for me but if it is for you you can put access panels in the upper fwd fuselage skin.
Bob Axsom
I have flown both and the visibility argument is not meaningful in my opinion. I travel in my airplane and on almost every cross country flight I deploy the shade for comfort. I have built a slider and it is a part of the airplane that you need to spend a lot of thought and careful work on to end up with the best installation you can get. It is not a part of the plane that you want to muddle through in a semiconscious state and hope for the best.
Tip up canopies are more vulnerable to many failure (damage) modes.
Working under the panel has never been a problem for me but if it is for you you can put access panels in the upper fwd fuselage skin.
Bob Axsom
Jamie
Well Known Member
There was a mid-air accident that happened a while back around here. It was a business jet (I believe a Citation) and a C-172 working pipeline patrol. The jet was on an IFR flight plan, but somehow the controllers neglected to call out the traffic. At any rate, the NTSB determined that both aircraft were hidden from each other by structural supports between the windscreen and side windows, etc.
To me being able to turn my head and have incredible, unobstructed visibility is worth the less-than-slider ventilation on the ground. Yeah, the roll bar on the slider is rather small, but you still have to put that fiberglass fairing around it as well as the structural support that runs down the center of the windscreen. Now, I'm not saying that the slider is dangerous or anything like that, but I think that in terms of VFR traffic spotting the tip-up certainly has an advantage. No head craning required. I built the airplane to optimize the flight experience, not the taxi experience.
This tip-up vs. slider thing has been debated over and over again here in the forums and elsewhere on the web, but I don't believe this particular difference in canopy styles gets enough attention.
As for heat on the ground, well...I live in Georgia. We're not exactly like southern Texas, but it does get HOT and HUMID here. I fly my airplane relentlessly in the summer and quite honestly I never even think about the heat. It's just as Paul described...the heat will build up on final, but as soon as the airplane is off the runway and the canopy is propped open, the ventilation is perfectly fine. My hartzell circulates a surprising amount of air through the cockpit. Yeah, the slider ventilation is obviously better, but it's not like the tip-up is miserable or anything. As I said, it's really not even noticeable.
If I'm holding short for a while (this happens all the time since I'm at a towered airport) I will simply make sure I'm throttled back and I will open the canopy all the way. Problem solved.
One advantage I would give to the slider canopy is that your radios aren't in danger of getting wet when it rains. I am having a heck of a time trying to get the forward edge of my tipper to seal well. At annual time next month the canopy is coming off so I can resolve the sealing issue once and for all.
To me being able to turn my head and have incredible, unobstructed visibility is worth the less-than-slider ventilation on the ground. Yeah, the roll bar on the slider is rather small, but you still have to put that fiberglass fairing around it as well as the structural support that runs down the center of the windscreen. Now, I'm not saying that the slider is dangerous or anything like that, but I think that in terms of VFR traffic spotting the tip-up certainly has an advantage. No head craning required. I built the airplane to optimize the flight experience, not the taxi experience.
This tip-up vs. slider thing has been debated over and over again here in the forums and elsewhere on the web, but I don't believe this particular difference in canopy styles gets enough attention.
As for heat on the ground, well...I live in Georgia. We're not exactly like southern Texas, but it does get HOT and HUMID here. I fly my airplane relentlessly in the summer and quite honestly I never even think about the heat. It's just as Paul described...the heat will build up on final, but as soon as the airplane is off the runway and the canopy is propped open, the ventilation is perfectly fine. My hartzell circulates a surprising amount of air through the cockpit. Yeah, the slider ventilation is obviously better, but it's not like the tip-up is miserable or anything. As I said, it's really not even noticeable.
If I'm holding short for a while (this happens all the time since I'm at a towered airport) I will simply make sure I'm throttled back and I will open the canopy all the way. Problem solved.
One advantage I would give to the slider canopy is that your radios aren't in danger of getting wet when it rains. I am having a heck of a time trying to get the forward edge of my tipper to seal well. At annual time next month the canopy is coming off so I can resolve the sealing issue once and for all.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
And on the other hand, one of our local fliers had a bird go thru his tip up canopy and clobbered him in the head. Perhaps that skinny (but heavy duty)roll bar could offer some additional protection!
As to visibility, unless your head is incapable of moving (in traction, etc), the roll bar doesn't even seem to exist, in regards to blocking the view. I've flown in both, and it just doesn't seem to matter. It's nothing like the view restrictions of a Cessna 172.
I was quite surprised last month, as my RV6A slider spent it's first day parked outside in a monsoon type rain storm that came down in sheets of water. It has no rubber seals of any kind, where the windscreen and canopy meet under the fiberglass above the roll bar. I really expected to see a somewhat wet cockpit, but not one drop of rain got in. I was more than pleasantly thrilled!
L.Adamson --- RV6A (a flying slider)
Slider with modular panel.
I put in an affordable panels modular panel and routed my wiring to allow each panel to be "laid down" allowing easy access to all my terminal blocks and the back of all instruments. Working the radios is a bit more work but I can reach them with either of the sub panels removed without laying under the panel.
Just FYI
I put in an affordable panels modular panel and routed my wiring to allow each panel to be "laid down" allowing easy access to all my terminal blocks and the back of all instruments. Working the radios is a bit more work but I can reach them with either of the sub panels removed without laying under the panel.
Just FYI
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
That's true! It's like night. I have a slider, and will put two pillows under the panel to rest my head on. I've gone to sleep more than once. It's actually quite comfortable. Just remove the passenger stick, have some good music on the radio, and put a pillow across the seat too...
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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my $.02
First off, I built a 9A slider. I've also flown in tip-up planes. I agree the view from a tip-up can't be beat.
BUT
1. I feel entry / exit is much easier in a slider airplane. You don't have to contort your upper body underneath the side canopy edge then sit on the top of the seat back before sliding down.
2. Except for doing total panel upgrades, does anyone really need to work on their panel after everything is proofed out? Unless you're working on the outside edges of the panel, access is still difficult.
3. There's no center brace to mount those cool sun visors on a tip-up.
First off, I built a 9A slider. I've also flown in tip-up planes. I agree the view from a tip-up can't be beat.
BUT
1. I feel entry / exit is much easier in a slider airplane. You don't have to contort your upper body underneath the side canopy edge then sit on the top of the seat back before sliding down.
2. Except for doing total panel upgrades, does anyone really need to work on their panel after everything is proofed out? Unless you're working on the outside edges of the panel, access is still difficult.
3. There's no center brace to mount those cool sun visors on a tip-up.
N814P
Member
Fly in them..
In Oshkosh last year I did a demo flight with Vans in their -9, which was a slider. After the flight I couldn't believe how much the roll bar bugged me. It wasn't about not being able to see, but just that something was right there in front of my face.
So, I went out to the RV parking lot behind Vans, and found a very nice tip-up owner who was willing to let me sit in his plane and pull the canopy down. As soon as I closed the canopy I was sold - tip up.
All the other points brought up are valid, but that bar bugged me. Go sit in several and check it out.
In Oshkosh last year I did a demo flight with Vans in their -9, which was a slider. After the flight I couldn't believe how much the roll bar bugged me. It wasn't about not being able to see, but just that something was right there in front of my face.
So, I went out to the RV parking lot behind Vans, and found a very nice tip-up owner who was willing to let me sit in his plane and pull the canopy down. As soon as I closed the canopy I was sold - tip up.
All the other points brought up are valid, but that bar bugged me. Go sit in several and check it out.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Jamie,
One fix I have seen for this is to make a rain gutter out of ripstop nylon that is Velcroed over the gap between the panel and sub-panel and runs from side to side. This will direct the water to the side. Should you need to do any work, just pull it off.
PS. Moderators, shouldn't this be in the "never ending debates" section along with the other, old threads that are in there?
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Warm vs. Hot
Many of the arguments are valid both ways. I have a tip up 7 but have flown in plenty of Sliders. My new 7 will be a slider, not because I wanted it but that's what it is. I'm going to make my panel modular for easy removal.
Tip up thoughts.
The front is tough to get sealed completely and can be an issue. Even with a good seal, if I fly through rain I can feel water dripping occasionally.
There is no comparison regrading visibility.
Working on the radios is a definite advantage. No matter how careful there is always the possibility of a problem. A little easier with a Tip up.
Construction is a PITA.
Slider thoughts.
Roll bar blocks view.
Radios are harder to work on.
Construction is a PITA.
Cooler look when taxiing (looks only)
easier access to baggage area.
I have to laugh at the thought that a slider is cooler. I got news, in AZ in the summer, 105 air is 105 air whether you in a slider or tip up. I prop open the Tip up and there is enough air moving to reduce the discomfort. With a Slider you've got even more 105 degree (or hotter) being thrown at you.
As I like to say, "it is 105, with Wind Chill, it is 118."
They are both great and both very functional. I prefer the Tip Up.
Many of the arguments are valid both ways. I have a tip up 7 but have flown in plenty of Sliders. My new 7 will be a slider, not because I wanted it but that's what it is. I'm going to make my panel modular for easy removal.
Tip up thoughts.
The front is tough to get sealed completely and can be an issue. Even with a good seal, if I fly through rain I can feel water dripping occasionally.
There is no comparison regrading visibility.
Working on the radios is a definite advantage. No matter how careful there is always the possibility of a problem. A little easier with a Tip up.
Construction is a PITA.
Slider thoughts.
Roll bar blocks view.
Radios are harder to work on.
Construction is a PITA.
Cooler look when taxiing (looks only)
easier access to baggage area.
I have to laugh at the thought that a slider is cooler. I got news, in AZ in the summer, 105 air is 105 air whether you in a slider or tip up. I prop open the Tip up and there is enough air moving to reduce the discomfort. With a Slider you've got even more 105 degree (or hotter) being thrown at you.
As I like to say, "it is 105, with Wind Chill, it is 118."
They are both great and both very functional. I prefer the Tip Up.
Sliders
I do sliders because:
There is more open area between the canopy frame and seat backs than roll bar and seat backs for reaching/loading into the baggage area;
The canopy can be removed from the airplane in two minutes for loading bathtubs, sinks, etc.
I believe the front roll bar is stronger and better located to save your neck in a nose over.
The center brace is a terrific handhold for hoisting your butt out of the seat. I guarantee you will be flying fat/weak/stiff/old people sooner or later, even if it's no matter to you as a young, lithe, limber pilot (are you?)
The handhold thing again: there's more to grab for support with the slider.
Cooler on the ground.
The tipper's prime advantage is formation visibility. BUT - It will drain rain/heavy dew into your instruments when opened. And why would you choose a canopy type based on servicing behind the panel? That's almost a non-issue if you build it right to begin with and plan for what little maintenance access might be necessary. Hold off riveting the forward top sheet until all is done and the windshield must be epoxied in. This is almost the last construction item.
If on your back looking up, things you drop land beside you on the floor. You don't need to get into the plane to fetch. And it's really rather pleasant: a few pillows and you just might doze off.
I sure prefer the slider for operational reasons.
John Siebold
Boise, ID
I do sliders because:
There is more open area between the canopy frame and seat backs than roll bar and seat backs for reaching/loading into the baggage area;
The canopy can be removed from the airplane in two minutes for loading bathtubs, sinks, etc.
I believe the front roll bar is stronger and better located to save your neck in a nose over.
The center brace is a terrific handhold for hoisting your butt out of the seat. I guarantee you will be flying fat/weak/stiff/old people sooner or later, even if it's no matter to you as a young, lithe, limber pilot (are you?)
The handhold thing again: there's more to grab for support with the slider.
Cooler on the ground.
The tipper's prime advantage is formation visibility. BUT - It will drain rain/heavy dew into your instruments when opened. And why would you choose a canopy type based on servicing behind the panel? That's almost a non-issue if you build it right to begin with and plan for what little maintenance access might be necessary. Hold off riveting the forward top sheet until all is done and the windshield must be epoxied in. This is almost the last construction item.
If on your back looking up, things you drop land beside you on the floor. You don't need to get into the plane to fetch. And it's really rather pleasant: a few pillows and you just might doze off.
I sure prefer the slider for operational reasons.
John Siebold
Boise, ID
Great point John,
That brings up an interesting question. Most controlled landing accidents in tailwheel A/C have an associated nose over. I haven't found any fatalities due to canopy failure in RV's on the NTSB website but it does bring up a valid point about the crash worthiness of a tipup vs slider. Great posts gents. Standing by for more incoming..
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N941WR
Legacy Member
John,
That is an interesting comment.
The roll bar in the tip-up is right behind your head, same place as every race car I have ever driven. Granted most race cars now have full cages, which includes a bar across the top of the windscreen.
Given the choice of just one roll bar, I'll take one right behind my head, as the tip-up's have.
Mark,
I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the TU's have a surprisingly strong aluminum roll bar designed into the structure. It sits right behind the pilot's head and has a horizontal member that attaches at the top and runs aft. This horizontal member is riveted to both the top skin and the first bulkhead. It's primary responsibility is to keep the roll bar from folding over in the event of a roll over.
Truth is, I think both roll bars have been known to do an equally good job of protecting the occupants. This assumes the occupants are securely fastened. (Do any of you have data on this?)
Larry A., regarding the slider being safer in a bird strike, it all depends on where the bird hits the windscreen. It is possible a bird hitting a slider at the cross bow might cause some damage whereas a the same bird hitting a TU in the same spot might deflect off w/o any damage. Sounds like it is time to get the bird cannon and some frozen chickens out and find out.
Third option?
I've been thinking about this for a while.
The arguments are based on the assumption that you either slide backwards, or tip forwards. That leaves two other options - tip backwards, or slide forwards.
Tipping backwards provides no extra benefits apart from possibly reducing the risk of pouring water down the back of the panel. But you would risk real damage if you taxied with it this way plus theres nothing to protect you from the prop wash.
Sliding forwards though, does provide the benefits of both ventilation while taxying, and visibility. Using Vans 3-view images (which I assume are to scale), it might also be possible to slide forward (maybe with some tip) the entire canopy. Imagine - no cut needed.
Is this technically feasible? Are there other reasons why this wouldn't work? No idea at the moment. But I am going to keep it in mind and investigate it more as I progress.
I've been thinking about this for a while.
The arguments are based on the assumption that you either slide backwards, or tip forwards. That leaves two other options - tip backwards, or slide forwards.
Tipping backwards provides no extra benefits apart from possibly reducing the risk of pouring water down the back of the panel. But you would risk real damage if you taxied with it this way plus theres nothing to protect you from the prop wash.
Sliding forwards though, does provide the benefits of both ventilation while taxying, and visibility. Using Vans 3-view images (which I assume are to scale), it might also be possible to slide forward (maybe with some tip) the entire canopy. Imagine - no cut needed.
Is this technically feasible? Are there other reasons why this wouldn't work? No idea at the moment. But I am going to keep it in mind and investigate it more as I progress.
Do you have some research that supports that Mark? Yes, it is a common conception that taildraggers can nose over, and they do...but I am not sure I believe that it happens in a majority of cases, but I'd love to see the statistics on it if they are out there!
Paul
Ease of egress from a nose over is often mentioned as a benefit of the slider. Is there a difference in in-flight egress? The slider seems an obvious yes - is it possible to eject the tip-up canopy? (without it smacking you in the face on the way off).
Probably not a thought for most of us, but might be relevant to those considering aerobatics.
Probably not a thought for most of us, but might be relevant to those considering aerobatics.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Yes, the TU have a canopy release but the issue is geting out of the slider. Do a search on this topic and you will find the air loads keep the sliders from opening in flight.
As for laying upside on the ground, ask some of the A drivers how they got out with the airplane laying on their broken sliders. You are not going to "open" either TU or slider if you are upside down w/ the plane laying on whats left.
Again, do a search. You can do acro w/o a 'chute in any plane as long as you are the only one onboard. The number of seats has nothing to do with it.I'd have thought that anyone doing aeros would be wearing a parachute. (Isn't it a legal requirement for aero's in anything other than single place aircraft?).
If you're not wearing a 'chute, not much point in worrying about how you're going to eject the canopy
So for upside down egress it doesn't really matter which canopy you have? Do the canopies always break?
You're right - I misremembered the wording of the FAR.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Oh, they break alright. I have never been in one upside down. Well, upside down while on the ground anyway.
From the pictures I have seen, it really depends on the makeup of the ground you stop on. Soft, freshly plowed field vs. hard rocky terrain.
Either way, you aren't left with a lot of room to kick what's left of the windshield away and get out.
There have been past threads on emergency egress. I suggest you do a search, there's lots of info on the subject on this forum. Those orange safety hammers can't break a car window so don't expect them to get you of a Plexiglas canopy. Some people have modified the end of the copilot's stick by putting a point on there to help out. Others simply bring a gun with the idea of blasting their way out.
I personally don't think there would be enough room to swing any kind of tool while upside down, more so if you have a passenger hanging upside down next to you. Then if you both release your belts, you have just taken up the room you need to swing a hamer, ax, pick, or whatever.
The best option is to not flip over, IMHO, but that is never on the agenda anyway.
PS. Welcome to the forum.
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RV-10 Canopy
This is probably a silly. But I always wondered about the RV-10. I've never heard any RV-10 owner/builder complain about poor visibility or lack of ventilation. Is the fact that the RV-10 is non-aerobatic the reason that it doesn't need any visibilty over the top of one's head? Is it cooler (temperature-wise) because the top doesn't let the sun in? Is it harder or easier to build than the plexiglass canopy of the other RV's? Any thoughts?
P.S. I think Scott Schmidt takes great pictures through the windows of his RV-10 - in spite of the poor visibilty it must have.
This is probably a silly. But I always wondered about the RV-10. I've never heard any RV-10 owner/builder complain about poor visibility or lack of ventilation. Is the fact that the RV-10 is non-aerobatic the reason that it doesn't need any visibilty over the top of one's head? Is it cooler (temperature-wise) because the top doesn't let the sun in? Is it harder or easier to build than the plexiglass canopy of the other RV's? Any thoughts?
P.S. I think Scott Schmidt takes great pictures through the windows of his RV-10 - in spite of the poor visibilty it must have.
Maintenance is the key word for me
I have built a Tip up and before getting there, I debated it for a long as most have. But if I was to build another one, it would for sure be a tip up.
Visibility is much much better but that is not the selling point for me. Maintenance is the key. If you ever need to do any thing with the wiring, add things, change things which you undoubtedly will, you will be glad you built a tip up. The access is so awesome and you don?t have to deal/build stupid access panel which still would never be any thing like the tip up. Also, there is an argument to be made that it is potentially safer in a role over since it will most likely be rolled over the nose but the movement is still forward.
As for sticking your arm outside, you can easily do that with the tip up. Just put an inch extension on the main latch in the middle which will hold it up higher on the roll bar.
Mehrdad
I have built a Tip up and before getting there, I debated it for a long as most have. But if I was to build another one, it would for sure be a tip up.
Visibility is much much better but that is not the selling point for me. Maintenance is the key. If you ever need to do any thing with the wiring, add things, change things which you undoubtedly will, you will be glad you built a tip up. The access is so awesome and you don?t have to deal/build stupid access panel which still would never be any thing like the tip up. Also, there is an argument to be made that it is potentially safer in a role over since it will most likely be rolled over the nose but the movement is still forward.
As for sticking your arm outside, you can easily do that with the tip up. Just put an inch extension on the main latch in the middle which will hold it up higher on the roll bar.
Mehrdad
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Paul,
No scientific data, but I did a little research on the NTSB website for the month of May and found that it seems to be a 50/50 split on nose overs when landing on an unprepared surface after some event like an engine failure. Not counting uncontrolled events like smacking a tree I think there is a pretty good chance of ending up on your back. I wonder from a safety standpoint which is safer, a tipup or slider. An interesting note was that there were no fatalities due to the nose over events though. I guess in the end it comes down to which one you prefer to build and fly.
*******************************************************
I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the TU's have a surprisingly strong aluminum roll bar designed into the structure. It sits right behind the pilot's head and has a horizontal member that attaches at the top and runs aft. This horizontal member is riveted to both the top skin and the first bulkhead. It's primary responsibility is to keep the roll bar from folding over in the event of a roll over.
*******************************************************
Bill, Thank's for the good intel.
Regarding roll bar protection: Draw a line from the just below the top of the tail (i.e., how far down the tail will crush in a flip--your guess is as good as mine) to the top of the engine. Assuming the tail doesn't collapse severely, in a tipper that line will intersect a tall person's head before it hits the rollbar. With a slider, you can't draw a straight line from tail to engine without bending around the rollbar. As far as I am concerned, only short people should fly tippers; tall people need the slider. All this is negated if the ground is soft, as the roll bar will dig in; more so the round roll bar on a slider. And you need your seat belt tight.
Visibility? It's kind of relative. For those of us who have spent much time in high wingers, the visibility under a slider is fantastic; the tipup is just better.
Access behind the panel in the slider can be improved. A local builder made his panel fold down--it is a great mod and gives better access than a tipper normally gives.
Visibility? It's kind of relative. For those of us who have spent much time in high wingers, the visibility under a slider is fantastic; the tipup is just better.
Access behind the panel in the slider can be improved. A local builder made his panel fold down--it is a great mod and gives better access than a tipper normally gives.
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Robert M
Well Known Member
Slider or tip-up
I've been in both. The tip up vetilation with the canopy propped open was more than adequate. The visibility with the tip is outstanding. During my lessons for my PPL, I was flying into a tower controlled airport at night. The instructor kept telling me "We're close enough now you should be setting up for the landing." I couldn't see the runway anywhere. The instructor mentioned it three times and each time I asked him "WHAT RUNWAY!" Fianlly he said lean back and there is was covered up completely by the vertical post of the C-152. If you've ever seen a runway lit up at a Class C airport at night - they're hard to miss. I could not see it because of the vertical support post. My RV is going to be a tip up.
I've been in both. The tip up vetilation with the canopy propped open was more than adequate. The visibility with the tip is outstanding. During my lessons for my PPL, I was flying into a tower controlled airport at night. The instructor kept telling me "We're close enough now you should be setting up for the landing." I couldn't see the runway anywhere. The instructor mentioned it three times and each time I asked him "WHAT RUNWAY!" Fianlly he said lean back and there is was covered up completely by the vertical post of the C-152. If you've ever seen a runway lit up at a Class C airport at night - they're hard to miss. I could not see it because of the vertical support post. My RV is going to be a tip up.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
We were also in Idaho last week, and I thought my wife was going to get heat stroke! Threw the slider open before I hit the taxiway after landing............and it was sure refreshing!!!
No tip up for me
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Rick6a
Well Known Member
Whatever Trips Your Trigger....
Pow! And their off! Shotgunning out of the starting gate Tip-up and Slider are dead even. At the halfway point now, Tip-up or Slider are still neck and neck. Around the final turn. Here they come! It's a photo finish!
Well Charles Lindberg had neither canopy type and he still managed to find Paris okay. If improved visibility be my overarching concern, I'd build a Breezy.
What classic feature do tough old birds like the Warhawk, Texan, Avenger, Devastator, Dauntless, Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat, Mustang, Corsair, Thunderbolt, Hurricane, Spitfire, Zero, FW-190, Stuka, just to name a few......all share? Why a sliding canopy of course! Imagine a smiling Pappy in his F4U or Chuck in his P-51 looking kinda dorky while slowly taxiing up to an awaiting news crew with outstretched arm, propping open a tip-up canopy. Hi-Yo Silver!
A sliding canopy made sense then and it makes sense now. Another thing will never change. Sex sells. Car builders know it and so do airplane manufacturers when designers prioritize lines and curves just as Cessna famously did when it reshaped a straight to a swept tail design for no other reason than to sell sex appeal. And naturally, the tactic WORKED......even if in the end the more graceful tail was a knot or two slower than its staid predecessor. Aeronautical efficiency had nothing to do with it yet emotion and practicality have always found a way to peacefully coexist....or not.
In the end, we should celebrate "Vive la difference!" As beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder, there is no accounting for taste. Not yours...not mine.
Pow! And their off! Shotgunning out of the starting gate Tip-up and Slider are dead even. At the halfway point now, Tip-up or Slider are still neck and neck. Around the final turn. Here they come! It's a photo finish!
Well Charles Lindberg had neither canopy type and he still managed to find Paris okay. If improved visibility be my overarching concern, I'd build a Breezy.
What classic feature do tough old birds like the Warhawk, Texan, Avenger, Devastator, Dauntless, Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat, Mustang, Corsair, Thunderbolt, Hurricane, Spitfire, Zero, FW-190, Stuka, just to name a few......all share? Why a sliding canopy of course! Imagine a smiling Pappy in his F4U or Chuck in his P-51 looking kinda dorky while slowly taxiing up to an awaiting news crew with outstretched arm, propping open a tip-up canopy. Hi-Yo Silver!
A sliding canopy made sense then and it makes sense now. Another thing will never change. Sex sells. Car builders know it and so do airplane manufacturers when designers prioritize lines and curves just as Cessna famously did when it reshaped a straight to a swept tail design for no other reason than to sell sex appeal. And naturally, the tactic WORKED......even if in the end the more graceful tail was a knot or two slower than its staid predecessor. Aeronautical efficiency had nothing to do with it yet emotion and practicality have always found a way to peacefully coexist....or not.
In the end, we should celebrate "Vive la difference!" As beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder, there is no accounting for taste. Not yours...not mine.
Actually it blew back onto the RV behind you windscreen, he had a tail wheel and it caused him to hit a trailer. Oh my couldn't resist
N941WR
Legacy Member
Now that's some funny stuff right there!
grantcarruthers
Well Known Member
You're all wrong and right and wrong and right!!
A tip-over is superior!!
RV-4's and showplane RV-8's please for me.
2 cents on sale for 1 cent today, please resume endless debate in normal fassion. That is all.................
A tip-over is superior!!
RV-4's and showplane RV-8's please for me.
2 cents on sale for 1 cent today, please resume endless debate in normal fassion. That is all.................
The sliders have 2 more places to put small stuff like cell phones, MP3s, etc. I'm talking about those triangular areas (Forward Canopy Deck?) just above the air vents. Checker Auto sell thin foam designed to keep stuff on top of a car dashboard from sliding around. Cut 2 pieces for the L&R canopy decks and you're in business.
The tippers have those areas but access is blocked due to the canopy lift struts.
The tippers have those areas but access is blocked due to the canopy lift struts.
