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RV-7 Tipups...Getting in and out easier?

Brantel

Well Known Member
Up until I moved my craft to the hangar, I always either had the tail up on something, had the canopy removed and or did not have the wings on.

Now that the wings are on, the tail is on the ground and the canopy is on, I find that on the taildragger, the canopy does not open far enough to make it easy to get in and out without putting some serious weight on the roll bar since the person getting in and out is off balance.

Has anyone noticed this but me? Anyone got any ideas to make this better?

It would be nice if the struts would allow the canopy to go more vertical but this would mean different struts and or anchor points that start getting in the way.

Is there such a thing as a telescoping strut with the same load capability?

????
 
Getting in and out does require leaning on the rollbar. The rollbar is a pretty beefy structure; it can take the weight of the airplane upside down, so it can certainly handle a person leaning against it.

If you are trying to get in and out without putting any pressure on the rollbar, that would be pretty difficult, but it isn't neccesary.
 
I don't think the rollbar would be a problem. I think the problem would be if there's significant weight on that crosspiece below it (behind the seatbacks). One of the things I learned when Tom Berge looked over my project this summer is that doing so will bend the vertical piece -- the aft portion of the flag mechanism enclosure. And that makes sense. There ain't a lot of beef in that piece but getting out is where I think things get problematic. You don't want to put weight on that and obviously you don't on the armrest, either.
 
Bob,

If you have the flap box enclosed with the screws in the side covers, it would take a huge load to bend that seatback brace....

Now if you don't have the sides on or the diagonal brace, thats a different story.
 
tipper problems - there is a solution!

Has anyone noticed this but me? Anyone got any ideas to make this better?

OK - I'll be the guy that says it;) - A slider canopy eliminates this problem!

Actually, we have both in our hangar: a tipper -7 and a slider-9. You're right, the tipper canopy on the tailwheel gear does make it difficult. I like the slider better, for that - and other - reasons.
 
I don't buy that one...I have more time in a slider 7 than a tip up. The slider has it's own set of problems....

Like, you cannot put any weight on the open canopy behind you.

You have to be carefull and not pull/push on the lip around the front windshield.

It does have complete openness once you get stood up in the seat though which helps some.

Its the lean on the TD's that cause the issue for me.


OK - I'll be the guy that says it;) - A slider canopy eliminates this problem!

Actually, we have both in our hangar: a tipper -7 and a slider-9. You're right, the tipper canopy on the taiwheel gear does make it difficult. I like the slider better, for that - and other - reasons.
 
or.....

OK - I'll be the guy that says it;) - A slider canopy eliminates this problem!

Actually, we have both in our hangar: a tipper -7 and a slider-9. You're right, the tipper canopy on the tailwheel gear does make it difficult. I like the slider better, for that - and other - reasons.

.....a nosegear:D
 
A big part of this particular problem is the struts themselves. I never liked them and never installed them. I also have removed them from several customer's airplanes.
The other problem with the struts is that they defeat the canopy jettison feature.
Never had a problem getting in and out, even at my age!
Wouldn't trade for all the sliders in the world; but that's just me.
 
Mel,

How do you handle your canopy?

Do you have a stick or ? to push it on up when getting out?

Do you use a prop rod or ?

Do you open it all the way past vertical?

Does it try to bend the front top skin?

How do you get it closed once sitting in the seat?

Thanks in advance!

A big part of this particular problem is the struts themselves. I never liked them and never installed them. I also have removed them from several customer's airplanes.
The other problem with the struts is that they defeat the canopy jettison feature.
Never had a problem getting in and out, even at my age!
Wouldn't trade for all the sliders in the world; but that's just me.
 
But then I would rob myself of the pleasures of TD flying and those occasional moments of shear terror! :p

Nah, you could still have the moments of shear terror wondering if the nose was gonna fold under on that rough grass strip, lol
 
Mel,
How do you handle your canopy?
Do you have a stick or ? to push it on up when getting out?
Do you use a prop rod or ?
Do you open it all the way past vertical?
Does it try to bend the front top skin?
How do you get it closed once sitting in the seat?
Thanks in advance!
The original kit employed a "prop rod" directly in front of the pilot. It is reachable while sitting in the seat. It opens almost vertical. Since the early kits did not have the re-enforced canopy, you must be careful when raising and lowering the canopy. I added a second prop rod on the passenger side. When the canopy is closed, neither of the prop rods is connected.
 
Mel,

What do you use in place of the struts? I have been thinking of leaving them out too, but haven't started investigating the option. Aerobatics and the ability to jettison are important to me.

Thanks

A big part of this particular problem is the struts themselves. I never liked them and never installed them. I also have removed them from several customer's airplanes.
The other problem with the struts is that they defeat the canopy jettison feature.
Never had a problem getting in and out, even at my age!
Wouldn't trade for all the sliders in the world; but that's just me.
 
Mel, What do you use in place of the struts? I have been thinking of leaving them out too, but haven't started investigating the option. Aerobatics and the ability to jettison are important to me.
Thanks
See post #13.
 
RV World War??

Hmmm, lets see.... In this ONE thread we've got skirmishes going over tip-up vs slider, taildragger vs nosewheel, and experimental vs. type cert. Do I hear tandem vs side by side, traditional vs alternative powerplants, primer preferences, steam vs EFIS, ... ?;)
 
Brian, since the struts just pop off....

You could either leave them disconnected for now and use Mel's stick method to hold it open or buy some longer struts for use now, but then they wouldn't close.

Kent
 
Up until I moved my craft to the hangar, I always either had the tail up on something, had the canopy removed and or did not have the wings on.

Now that the wings are on, the tail is on the ground and the canopy is on, I find that on the taildragger, the canopy does not open far enough to make it easy to get in and out without putting some serious weight on the roll bar since the person getting in and out is off balance.

Has anyone noticed this but me? Anyone got any ideas to make this better?

It would be nice if the struts would allow the canopy to go more vertical but this would mean different struts and or anchor points that start getting in the way.

Is there such a thing as a telescoping strut with the same load capability?

????

Brian,

Getting in and out of the taildragger tip-up is a non-issue once you have done it a few times. By the time you get into Phase 1 it will be second nature.

Don't make any strut changes to your plane, it works fine as is. :)
 
Bail Out?

Has anyone ever successfully jettisoned a tip-up canopy and bailed out of a side by side RV - with or without gas struts?

I believe that with all but the very early straight hinge versions you need to slot the forward fuselage skin above the hinge slots and cover with something frangible like a thin layer of fiberglass so that the hinge will lift out of the slot when the pin is pulled.

I have also read that if the front of the canopy lifts clear of the fuselage then the gas struts, attached or not, won't stop it being ripped away in the slip stream.

Jim Sharkey
 
A couple weeks ago I go the chance to go for a ride in a buddies -7 slider adn is the first time in a slider since I've been flying my tipper 160 hours or so. I found getting out of the tipper, with the rollbar is just a whole lot easier. On top of that, when I went to get out of the slider, I leaned forward, hand on the back of the seat, attempted to push out, and promptly whacked my head on the slider forward rollbar! Ouch! I think the tipper opens pleanty wide with the struts installed.
 
Has anyone ever successfully jettisoned a tip-up canopy and bailed out of a side by side RV - with or without gas struts?

I(snip)

I think the answer is "no," but I'm not aware that anyone has ever tried.

I'm aware of at least one successful (but inadvertent) canopy jettison in flight in an RV-4. The airplane was landed safely.

There has been one person who bailed out of an RV-8 in flight, tragically without a parachute though.
 
A couple weeks ago I go the chance to go for a ride in a buddies -7 slider adn is the first time in a slider since I've been flying my tipper 160 hours or so. I found getting out of the tipper, with the rollbar is just a whole lot easier. On top of that, when I went to get out of the slider, I leaned forward, hand on the back of the seat, attempted to push out, and promptly whacked my head on the slider forward rollbar! Ouch! I think the tipper opens pleanty wide with the struts installed.

It's all what you're use to! :)

Other than that, my slider has some nice welded hand holds on the roll bar. Use these to get in and out; and a passenger can hang on to one of these if turbulance get's rough. Just like the ones in four wheel drives, and for the same reasons.

L.Adamson
 
Where to put your feet.

As others have said, you soon get the hang of it.

The roll bar and the seat back certainly handle my 90kg frame. That is not an issue.

But the real clue I got for getting in a Taildragger tip-up (I think from Dan) is to, as you step in, put your heel in front of the seat cushion, pull it back and stand on the spar. This means you in a far less prone position than with you foot further down and forward on the floor, as you lower yourself in.

Regarding ditching the canopy in flight, unless you always fly with a chute you might want to consider the possibility of the fin and rudder being removed by the canopy.

Finally, in the hot Australian summer I kept a soft rubber sanding block, about 2" x 3" x 6" stowed between the seats. Whilst on the ground I would lift the canopy a few inches, place the block on the canopy sill and lower the canopy onto the block. It lets a bit of prop wash in to keep you cool and is gentle on the canopy.
Pete.
 
Since it has not been said in this thread

I have found losing 15 to 20 pound off the mid section, and daily stretching can make getting into (and out) of a fuselage much less challenging :D:D:D
 
Pressure in the rollbar center only?

Back to the orginal question:

I'm also using the rollbar to lean on during entry and egress on my tip-up, but I'm only placing my hand close to the center of the rollbar. There, the aft rollbar-support takes up the aftwards force.

When I place my hand on offcenter of the rollbar, the aft window seems to take up some force and makes small "squeeky sounds".
I guess this is due to the fact the rollbar sides doesn't take up aftwards forces very well, so the window has to "help" taking up those forces.

Since I'd HATE to have my aft window crack, I only use the center of the rollbar, and I certainly tell my passengers to do the same, and I stand aside the a/c assisting them during the entry/egress process too.

Also, both me and my passengers are facing forwards during both entry and egress. In other words, when leaving the a/c, we go backwards from the wing and down. (face forward)

A comment to the tip of having a sanding block underneath the canopy for air during taxi (or using the aft canopy lock in the 90* position for that matter):
I only do this while the a/c are not moving.
Reason is that I'm afraid of the loads beeing centered on the aft center of the canopy when taxing since it's kind of "hanging" on the aft center only and might get some heavy loads on a small area during bouncing while moving, specially on rough surfaces (grasstrips for example)
Thoughts anyone?

Sorry for possible using some wrong english words here folks.... hope you get the meaning anyway.
 
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I don't buy that one...I have more time in a slider 7 than a tip up. The slider has it's own set of problems....

You have to be carefull and not pull/push on the lip around the front windshield.
I did the glass around the lip of the front canopy with a pretty hefty layup of carbon fiber. No need to worry bout breaking it; use it to get in and out every time.
 
A comment to the tip of having a sanding block underneath the canopy for air during taxi (or using the aft canopy lock in the 90* position for that matter):
I only do this while the a/c are not moving.
Reason is that I'm afraid of the loads beeing centered on the aft center of the canopy when taxing since it's kind of "hanging" on the aft center only and might get some heavy loads on a small area during bouncing while moving, specially on rough surfaces (grasstrips for example)
Thoughts anyone?

No problems (so far...) with the tip up canopy on my RV-6 after ten years and nearly 1000 hours, several of them spent bouncing around on grass strips with the canopy propped open. :)

On hot days, my canopy gets propped open on landing roll out once the speed drops down to fast taxi.
 
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On this subject- I had an oh sh__ experience last fall with my tip-up. I left the canopy in the fully open position while deplaning a Young Eagle. I had left the rear latch in the partially open taxi position. A combination of a strong wind gust and a pair of aging lift struts resulted in the canopy slamming shut from the fully open position, onto the extended rear latch! After my heart restarted, I examined the damage. The rear latch was bend way out of shape, so much so that I had to remove the entire works in order to get the canopy to shut. However, there was no damage to canopy itself, much to my relief.

It took no small amount of work to get the handle bent back into shape. The worst part was removing all the powder coating so that I could use a heat wrench on it. In the process, I modified the handle with a piece of 3/4 square tubing welded to the rear of the latch, with a rubber grommet on the bottom. This has the practical effect of opening the canopy about another inch when in the partially open taxi position, increasing airflow in the canopy.
 
Had almost the exact same thing happen to ours. One of the struts gave up the ghost with out warning and the canopy came down and landed on the rear lock bending it also. As well it did no damage to either the canopy or the roll bar at all. The axle(?) bent however so now it is hard to turn but that is a good thing cause it doesn't turn and slam shut. We taxi around with the canopy resting on the rear lock with no problems to the canopy. We also built the canopy with a "skirt and targa strip" all the way around it with the idea of keeping out unwanted air and water. After finishing the canopy it was removed and set aside till time for the inspection. We removed once since then to do some mods before it was painted.
 
RV7 tipups

I also had mine slam down from a open position, with no damage except for distorting the handle mechanism. As far as struts vs. no struts, I have no problem getting in and out and the strut also acts as a handle for helping to get up on the wing. I don't know about the effect on the jettison feature, but without cutting the slots over the hinge arms like on the old 6's, it probably would not work very well anyway.
I know that no one has ever taken off with the canopy unlatched except for me,:eek: I can tell you that the canopy does get sucked up in flight. The faster you go the higher it goes. The only way to get it latched, is to slow way down so you can pull the thing down with the handle far enought to engage the latches. (It will also suck unattached things out of the cockpit). It's just possible that if you were to unlatch the canopy and pull the hinge pins, the canopy would probably depart or tear itself apart trying.

Ed Booth, RV-6, RV-7, RV-10, (RV-9A under construction)
 
Apart from sitting in the factory prototype RV-7 when it first came to Arlington, I had never sat in a tip-up canopy RV until I went to look at an RV-6 with the possibility of purchasing it. I've flown many hours with others in side-by-side RV's, 6, 7a, and 9a, all with sliders, and never thought much of getting in and out. Hold the front roll bar, either by the handles that the owners welded in or by just hooking my fingers around under it, lower my weight onto the seat back, and then slide into the seat.

The -6 I went to look at has a tip-up with two gas struts. When open, there's a lot more space to get into/out of the cockpit. Step on the wing, step on the seat, lean on the rear roll bar, get feet ready, lower onto the seat back, and then slide into the seat. I thought it was a fair bit easier than getting into a slider. And once i'd flown in it, I was sold on the visibility.

I'm not holding any misconceptions about jettisoning in flight... It's a nice idea, but to date nobody has done it in a tip-up, and the geometry of the hinge suggests to me that it's not possible anyway. Finally, even if you did, you'd be left with no windscreen at all, so you'd better be getting out... It wouldn't be possible to sit there and fly it without a full helmet.
 
I would also think that when you jettison it, you better duck if you want to keep your head.
 
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