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  #51  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:44 AM
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9GT 9GT is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
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Anyone cut both the Tempest and NAPA Gold 1515 open and do a side by side comparison? I would be interested in seeing some pics and also filter housing metal thickness measurements. Maybe even a nice pic of a cross-cut section of the filter housing to flange crimp attachment. I am pretty conservative when it comes to "experimenting" with known aircraft standards, but it looks like the NAPA Gold 1515 has had quite a bit of real world testing to prove it is a viable alternative to a Champion or Tempest filter.
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  #52  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:22 AM
Davy8or Davy8or is offline
 
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Location: Discovery Bay, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GT View Post
Anyone cut both the Tempest and NAPA Gold 1515 open and do a side by side comparison? I would be interested in seeing some pics and also filter housing metal thickness measurements. Maybe even a nice pic of a cross-cut section of the filter housing to flange crimp attachment. I am pretty conservative when it comes to "experimenting" with known aircraft standards, but it looks like the NAPA Gold 1515 has had quite a bit of real world testing to prove it is a viable alternative to a Champion or Tempest filter.
I would also be curious to compare flow rates. I don't know too many modern cars that use 50 weight oil. My concern would be more about protection of the engine from wear than it would be about failure in flight. Guys saying that they have 300, or 400 hours no problem is great, but what about 2000 hours? I'd like my engine to go at least to TBO and preferably beyond.
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  #53  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:47 AM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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The Wix number for the 1515 is 51515. $3.78 on rockauto.com. The 1515 is the Napa-branded Wix filter. Same exact filter.

Napa Gold 1515 is rated 21 microns.

FAA approved filters are rated 40 microns.

Let that sink in.

I'd venture to guess between the friends that run these filters and the RVs I maintain the number of hours in this sphere has to exceed 20,000 hours. They work well, they trap shavings, they work with 50W oil. If you don't feel comfortable using them, or need proof beyond a reasonable doubt, stick with what you're doing.
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N55BC RV-6 borrowed, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
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Not a thing I own is stock.
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  #54  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:20 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Default another option

The Baldwin B2-HPG is a another filter I would strongly consider over an aircraft filter. It has a 8 micron nominal rating which is very good. I have not tried one, but have used their bypass filters.

Baldwin is generally considered one of the top filter manufacturers.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N55BC RV-6 borrowed, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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  #55  
Old 04-04-2018, 07:32 PM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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Default You know...

... think I'll just stick with aviation filters for my own use.

Thanks Walt! ;-)

-Marc
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  #56  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:09 AM
UH1CW2 UH1CW2 is offline
 
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Location: Lenox, Michigan
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Default Lycoming Oil Pressure ++++

I read these posts about oil pressures being set at 100 + PSI on Lycoming Engines, Why? Why in the world would anyone set their pressure above 65 psi. These engines are not making 1000 Horse Power! Rule of thumb for engine designers and builders 10 PSI per 100 HP is sufficient lubrication on the average engine with supporting bearing area. A Lycoming IO 360 will fly around the world on 20 PSI.

What determines required oil pressure is HP and bearing surface area. Our engines have 2 times the surface area of most 300 HP small engines running at 30 to 40 psi. For those of you that are pumping the oil pressure up to 80 + PSI all you are doing is friction heating the oil as it is forced to overcome the by-pass valve. You are also pushing most of the oil through the oil filter by-pass. This is allowing the majority of the oil in the engine to escape the filter element and flow directly to the bearings unfiltered!

For those of you that wish to argue with me I suggest you do some research on engine oil system design.

In addition, those of you running these ridiculously high oil pressures, your concern should be oil temp, oil filtration and possible system failure. You are just creating undue stress on the oil cooler, lines and filter element housing. More is not always better.

General Motors and others used scoop and splash oil systems (0 psi) on their v-8 engines up until most of these Lycomings were flying in the 1960's. Again, lubrication is based on surface area and HP!
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  #57  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:04 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
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Well, that and how torturous the path is to the last lube point, and how much they are compensating for sloppy design work...

Ask anyone who's replaced a cam after losing a lobe that lifts opposing valves, or the aftermarket case maker that fixed the around the world oil path in a stock Lyc case. :-)
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  #58  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:09 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UH1CW2 View Post
For those of you that wish to argue with me I suggest you do some research on engine oil system design.
I have, but won't be arguing with you, it is not helpful.

Facts:
1. Pressurized oil to bearings is incorporated in designs to keep the bearing journals cool.
2. The design factors for the bearings are force, eccentricity, and shear velocity (related to engine RPM).
3. Forces (peak) could be from inertia (weights of components) or cylinder pressures and the combination of above.
4. The key point for bearings in a pressure supply system is at the bearing entry. Oil to bearing temperature and pressure. Temperature for viscosity of the bearing needs to maintain separation, and pressure to maintain flow to keep the bearings cool.

HP is a factor in some of the design parameters, but only indirectly. Bearings (L/D, diameter) are usually designed using a supply temp (~230F), and 10 psi OTB regardless of anything else.
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  #59  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:55 AM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UH1CW2 View Post
For those of you that wish to argue with me I suggest you do some research on engine oil system design.
ok, I'll bite...game on.

Have you ever physically measured the amount of oil being returned from each cylinder?

I have. I removed oil return lines and slung plastic cups with zip ties and validated the right side cylinders get very little oil compared to the left side.

I've set up many engines for 100 PSI cold and have found no detrimental effect. In fact, I've never had problems with these engines.

Yesterday evening, in fact, I was test running an engine I overhauled. At 1800 RPM we were getting 55psi. Way too low. Tonight we're shimming the spring to get at least 75psi warm, and will continue to adjust from there.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N55BC RV-6 borrowed, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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  #60  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:10 PM
UH1CW2 UH1CW2 is offline
 
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Location: Lenox, Michigan
Posts: 126
Default OIL PRESSURE 100 +++

I'm not telling anyone not to run high oil pressure. I am stating that there Is no need to ever run anything over 65 psi on a Lycoming Engine.

On a side not I worked as a Powertrain engineer for Chrysler for over 10 years and then another 5 years with Detroit Diesel conducting root cause analysis on engine failures. Oil starvation was rarely a failure mode. Most Chrysler products were running between 20 and 30 PSI. The gages were pre programmed to display a pressure that the customer felt comfortable with, not what the engine was actually producing. As a matter of fact, most automotive engines use an oil pressure switch that is designed to close at 5 psi. They don't use pressure sensors. So long as the switch closes the engine controller will display a pre-programmed pressure on the cluster that keeps people from visiting the dealership complaining about low oil pressure.

Even 65 PSI is Extreme overkill with the large Lycoming crank journals and bearing surface area. Considering that the cam lobes, piston pins and cylinder walls are all splash oiled.
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Phil Camarda
Licensed A&P
Commercial & Instrument Pilot
Airplane Multi Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Land
Military (Army) Test Pilot
Helicopters (UH1's , AH1's , S76, TH55)
Long EZ Driver but love RV's
Dues Paid 5/18.
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