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RV-3: One Word ? ?Plastics?

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
Uh….yeah, so we’re building this all-metal monoplane….and we just spent a marathon day covered in clay, resin and glass!

When I last tried to make a gear intersection fairing from scratch, it was for my RV-8 back in 2005. The experiment ended with a mess tossed in the trash and a phone call to Bob Snedecker at Fairings-Etc for a set of his nicely-built intersections. When Louise’s -6 needed all new pants and fairings, we went with Bob’s work again – no use dredging up painful memories I figured. Well, one thing about building an RV-3 is that it makes you confront your fears! We really had no choice but to roll our own – no one makes fairings to fit this “rarest of all” model, and even if they did, they probably wouldn’t fit – I am convinced that no two RV-3’s are exactly the same shape.

All in all, the experience was, well maybe not “fun”, but it was satisfying to turn out a nice set of fairings (albeit still not finished for paint) in about 24 hours. We started with the pants and gear leg fairings in place, then pulled out a brick of clay from the local art supply house. Having mounted two sets of fairings before, I had a pretty good feel for how these should go, and how I like to mount them. There is a lot of variations that work – fully removable lowers, lowers split in the back, etc. I like the lowers glassed on to the pants, with a split between front and back. An overlap from the front piece fairs over the rear piece for a nice fit. I like to make the uppers with as few screws as possible, and the shape of the tunnel sidewalls on the -3 make it really slick – impossible to describe, and hard to photograph – take my word for it, if you’re building one, you’ll get the idea. The end product almost “clicks” in place, and two screws into nut-plates on the cowl are all that is needed to hold them in place.

Before we plastered on the clay, we used 2” wide vinyl electrical bundling tape to cover everything that we didn’t want to get messy. The clay was applied to this, and sculpted mostly with fingers. As a trained Aeronautical Engineer, I looked at the shapes we were making and asked myself “if I were an air molecule, would I be relaxed and undisturbed going around those body?” Long bodies are better than short bodies, and radical changes in direction get the molecules all excited, and we want them to be calm…. ;)

Satisfied with the shape, I decided we’d try to go with over-taping the clay, and I didn’t thing we could get the tape on the clay without wrinkles, bunching, and messing up the clay. Instead, we just waxed everything and laid up 4 layers of BID glass. It took quite awhile, alternating layers top and bottom on each fairing, but it really helped to have two people – one prepping and saturating the pieces, the other applying them. I didn’t check the clock, but we did break for dinner between the uppers and lowers! We used West Systems slow hardener to give us a reasonable working time, and that meant we had to let the layups cure overnight.

The next morning it took about an hour to pry everything loose. We cut the uppers with a vertical cut on the inside of the strut, and the lowers were split into a front and back half. Before removing the lowers, we drilled two cleco locating holes through the front and back halves so that we could get them in the same places on the wheel pants. Edges were trimmed, and then we proceeded to bond the lowers on to the pants sections (front and back). We’ll sand and blend the joints, then it is standard finishing before going to paint. The uppers will just take a couple of screws and nut plates (as mentioned), and again, standard finishing before going to paint (which will come after Phase 1).

Uppers Molded in place with clay still underneath:
IMG_6173.JPG


Lowers – they are actually smoother than they look in this picture!
IMG_6175.JPG



Gray Vinyl tape covered everyplace the fiberglass was laid up to allow easy separation:
IMG_6176.JPG



Untrimmed fairing pieces removed and, the clay wadded up for a future project:
IMG_6178.JPG



Lower fairing pieces ready to glass on to the pants:
IMG_6180.JPG



Two days in the shop from “nothing” to molded shapes attached for flight. This is a perfect illustration of my love/hate relationship with “plastic” – I love what you can do with it, but hate the mess of layups and cleanup. Then again, the thought of making these fairings out of aluminum? Terrifying…..

Paul
 
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Nice looking work! But...

...laid up 40 layers of BID glass...

In the 8.8 oz 7725 glass that is kind of the standard easy-draping BID for stuff like this, that would make a fairing that is about 40 x .011" = 7/16" thick. That is somewhere between bird proof and bullet resistant. ;)

Thanks, Bob K.
 
Opps...why can't automatic proof-readers know what I am THINKING and not what my fingers are TYPING!? :)

Fixed it - thanks Bob.
 
Dont fear the glass............

P & L, looking good.

Fiberglass in not all that hard to work with, as you are finding out.

It is just a different skill set you get to learn.

Remember the line about "recreation and education":rolleyes:
 
Under side of upper fairings?

Nice work on the fairings Paul.
I want to produce new fairings for my RV3, mainly because the current fairings are not great, but also as a practise run for my RV8 fairings. Do you maybe have a picture of the underside of the upper fairings? My current RV3 fairings are really bad at that side, just curious how you made a nice transition to the cowl and the fuselage there.

Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Duncan
 
A little help

Back when I needed a heated hanger to do the final assembly on the 6, a good friend who was building a Velocity offered space and I took it. During the time I was in there, he showed me a number of tricks that made the job of the fiberglass much easier, one was to use a parting agent that sprayed on and the other was to use a plypeel (Dacron)on the outside of the layup. This helps remove the excess resin and leaves a much nicer surface to work with.... Now, fiberglass is a piece,o,cake.....Dave.
 
One tip for anyone doing a direct layup (on the ship) - crystal clear packing tape makes a nice release surface with no texture.
 
One tip for anyone doing a direct layup (on the ship) - crystal clear packing tape makes a nice release surface with no texture.

I first put down a large layer of blue masking tape then cover the layup area with clear packing tape. the whole deal comes off real easy. The work comes off the packing tape easy, but the packing tape likes staying on the metal. The masking tape gets everything off real easy with no residue.
 
I'm a recent convert to two-part urethane foam. Found I can get a far more accurate male form, more quickly, by sanding with shaped tools.

Unlike clay, the foam doesn't always need to be removed if it's not convenient to do so. For these wheel pants only the leg got a release tape. The fairing glass was laid up over the foam without a release layer, bonding directly to the wheel pant skin in a single step. Most of the foam was removed later, from the inside.

ayn7rr.jpg


Paul, that's a great start. Draw your trim lines and do the rough trim. Then, to save time and effort prepping the surface for dry micro, run the parts through a bead blast cabinet just enough to dull the surface.....somebody in your airpark has one ;)
 
Dan,

It this the foam in a can stuff? If so, you have had far better luck with it than I have.

As far as Paul's earlier comment about doing these in metal - someone good with a shot bag, mallet and planishing hammer could probably knock these fairings out in a couple of hours. I doubt I'll ever be one of "those" people, but I can dream.
 
I'm a recent convert to two-part urethane foam

What kind of foam, Dan? I used to get the 2-part material from a boat yard, but that was 25 years ago. I tried some of the spray can ("great stuff") foam for closing out the inlet ramps in my upper cowl. It worked, but not very well. I guess I could root around and find it myself, but laziness compels me to ask instead.

Paul, the fairings look nice. I've been busy wiring, dreading the remaining glass work. Your description reminded me that it's not bad- enjoyable, even.
 
Dan,

It this the foam in a can stuff? If so, you have had far better luck with it than I have...

I've found that while some of the spray foams work OK for stuff like this, there are some other formulations of it that cure to a leathery consistency that is hard to sand. I haven't found a sure-fire way to tell them apart by what is written on the can label.
 
I've found that while some of the spray foams work OK for stuff like this, there are some other formulations of it that cure to a leathery consistency that is hard to sand. I haven't found a sure-fire way to tell them apart by what is written on the can label.

I had the same experience when we were molding the cheek cowl extensions - thought "hey, DanH uses that form-in-place foam for this - I'll get a can!" Worthless - like leather - unworkable. Clearly, Dan is using the two-part that cures "hard" so you can sand it.

Someone mentioned the clear packing tape - I use that sometimes, but find that on surfaces with compound curves, I get wrinkles. The vinyl tape stretches better, and the cured part pops right off - with or without wax.

We finished the fairings up today (well, not ready for paint, but ready for flight), and will have to dump a few pictures when I get the chance.

Paul
 
All the spray can foams I've tried are uniformly awful.

Back in 2007 Karl Koehler suggested the 4 lb density available from:

http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html

..and Greg Piney suggested Instafoam, about 2.1 lb density and available from Wicks:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=14117~subid=11259/index.html

I tried both and prefer the 4 lb density for shaped forms, but it is more expensive. Either works.

BTW, entirely unrelated but not.....I tried some InstaFoam poured into the trailing edges of my wingtips as a method of internal support for the wimpy polyester fiberglass. Figured I could block sand a flatter surface if the panel didn't oilcan quite so much. Well, the idea backfired. Yes, got nice flat surfaces initially, but after exposure to heat and/or altitude the stuff expanded further, and worse, did so unevenly. Now at 150 hours the top of my right tip has a few giant waves in it toward the rear, over the foamed section.
 
Mounting The Upper Fairing

Paul, how will you mount the upper gear leg fairings to the fuselage in order to provide relief for the surprising amount of motion that occurs in the upper gear leg.

I have seen some installations that use a spring mount on the rear portion of the fairing and others that slot (or split) the aft edge of the fairing. Some others I have looked at just seem to provide a loose-enough fit at the lower edge to prevent cracking.
 
All the spray can foams I've tried are uniformly awful.

Back in 2007 Karl Koehler suggested the 4 lb density available from:

http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html

..and Greg Piney suggested Instafoam, about 2.1 lb density and available from Wicks:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=14117~subid=11259/index.html

I tried both and prefer the 4 lb density for shaped forms, but it is more expensive. Either works.

BTW, entirely unrelated but not.....I tried some InstaFoam poured into the trailing edges of my wingtips as a method of internal support for the wimpy polyester fiberglass. Figured I could block sand a flatter surface if the panel didn't oilcan quite so much. Well, the idea backfired. Yes, got nice flat surfaces initially, but after exposure to heat and/or altitude the stuff expanded further, and worse, did so unevenly. Now at 150 hours the top of my right tip has a few giant waves in it toward the rear, over the foamed section.

Thanks. I think I'll stick with your preference and order a small kit of the 4 lb material. That'll be plenty for what I need to do.

I spent hours carving foam rib forms out of some 2" thick styrofoam insulation- the stuff used in walls- which I then glassed in to my wing tips. My intent was the same as yours, to stiffen the wingtips. Hours, because the wing tips are such wet noodles that it was difficult to get the shape right. It's a good thing they are hidden, but my glass work wasn't very pretty. I carved most of the foam out after the epoxy cured. My fear was the there would be a witness line or ridge visible on the outside. So far, so good, but then I haven't exposed them to anything harsher than the environment in my hangar yet.
 
Nice looking work! But...



In the 8.8 oz 7725 glass that is kind of the standard easy-draping BID for stuff like this, that would make a fairing that is about 40 x .011" = 7/16" thick. That is somewhere between bird proof and bullet resistant. ;)

Thanks, Bob K.

I always appreciate the humor on this forum!
 
Removing from the Leg after Glassing

Dan, if you let it bond to the wheel pant, how do you remove the fairing and pants as a finished assembly?
 
Dan, if you let it bond to the wheel pant, how do you remove the fairing and pants as a finished assembly?

You must cut at least one slot regardless of method. In this case you would cut a slot top and bottom. When you separate the pant halves the foam and glass pulls off the leg, which is covered in waxed tape.

vxkqo7.jpg


You can then remove some or all of the foam and wheelpant shell from the inside.

1zwowt2.jpg


Nothing original here; I was inspired by these red pants. I don't know the builder's name. Beautiful work.

2uf56oj.jpg
 
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Dan,
After making the cut, did you form a lip on one half to form an overlapping joint, or did you just leave them as a butt-joint?
 
Paul, how will you mount the upper gear leg fairings to the fuselage in order to provide relief for the surprising amount of motion that occurs in the upper gear leg.

The upper fairings do just fine when not attached to the cowl/fuselage:

https://picasaweb.google.com/tonyboytoo/RV3BMiscellaneous#5171415848001449074

https://picasaweb.google.com/tonyboytoo/RV3BMiscellaneous#5171415886656154754

https://picasaweb.google.com/tonyboytoo/RV3BMiscellaneous#5140988652686351650

Tony
 
Butt joint, but a lip would be easy to do....go for it!

It only took me about a half hour to mask for, and lay up, the overlap - I like the way it looks, and fixes any minor errors in the fit. (I make a few errors....)
 
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connector question?

Paul been following Junoirs sight awsome job I am gettin ready to fit the QB wings to my project, question were did get the wire connectors for wng ire harness to the fuse? hope to post some pics of te project soon. Dave
 
Paul been following Junoirs sight awsome job I am gettin ready to fit the QB wings to my project, question were did get the wire connectors for wng ire harness to the fuse? hope to post some pics of te project soon. Dave

If you're talking about the Amp CPC connectors (the round Canon-type plugs), I got them at a local electronic parts house. I believe you can find them at Mouser online. Overkill, but they really look and work pretty neat!
 
If you're talking about the Amp CPC connectors (the round Canon-type plugs), I got them at a local electronic parts house. I believe you can find them at Mouser online. Overkill, but they really look and work pretty neat!

thanks that works makes things really neat.
 
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