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  #11  
Old 03-09-2015, 02:54 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 327
Default Quadrant Installed

For those interested, I found that the RV-10 quadrant has the same panel to subpanel distance as the RV-14, or at least close enough that it was an easy install. So I've obtained and installed the RV-10 throttle quadrant on the panel.

Past comments about the seating position being different and it perhaps not working well in the RV-14 are off base. It appears it'll be a very comfortable way to go, and it is in a great position. Of course, while I have my IO-390 waiting to be installed once the engine mount arrives, I don't have cable lengths at this time, so I'll need to get that later. I don't see that it's going to be any problem to use though. I've got some of the green lower-temp cables that I pulled out of my RV-10 that I can use for routing and measurements, and then I'll order some of the nice black higher-temp cables for the -14.


Pics:




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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com

Last edited by TimO : 03-09-2015 at 02:58 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2015, 10:55 AM
jerry sparks jerry sparks is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 22
Default Throttle quadrant

Like the idea of options, but when I sat in the prototype at cooperstate the standard vernier felt very comfortable and in a good position.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2015, 11:19 PM
Indytim Indytim is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 41
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Really like the quadrant. Looks good with the controls in a natural position. I read most of your log - Looking forward to seeing how it all comes out!
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2015, 05:17 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry sparks View Post
Like the idea of options, but when I sat in the prototype at cooperstate the standard vernier felt very comfortable and in a good position.
Everything depends on arm and leg length. When I sat in the 14 at S&F, the air vent was jabbing my left knee, and any throttle type hung in the usual place under the center panel would be unacceptable to my right knee. Just means my 14 would need a custom quadrant located above or below the knee, and a relocated air vent. These are items a builder can customize without much risk. Go go for it!

BTW, my next one will probably have a lever throttle, but vernier push-pull prop and mixture controls, which can be better for fine adjustment.
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  #15  
Old 05-02-2016, 08:29 AM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 327
Default Quadrant and controls complete

As I've mentioned before, one of the things that I simply would not do without in my RV-14 is a quadrant type throttle. For the RV-10, Van's had the foresight to create both a quadrant and push-pull type controls, but to date they haven't released any quadrant info for the RV-14. With a little luck involved, the RV-10 quadrant worked out real well for me. Now that I've got my seats, I was able to test out the quadrant position and there is actually better knee clearance using the quadrant in the RV-14 than there is in the 10. It is very well positioned and has plenty of clearance from stick movement as well. I'm not sure why it is taking so long for them to get this designed in, as I'm sure it would be a very very popular option. At OSH last year we were talking quadrants and we polled a good sized group of people around our campsite. Every one of them but one was using the quadrant throttle. It's something that you really want for formation flying, and I think many people would prefer it once you try it. I started out with push-pulls in Cessnas, but as I moved into beeches and pipers, they all had quadrants and I preferred them greatly.

I did complete my install, along with all of the push-pull cables from the same source as I used when I replaced mine on the RV-10. I should note that if you have Green covered push-pull cables, there is a better, higher temp jacket version of the cable available, so when you get cables I recommend going that route. On my RV-10, the green cable sleeve started to melt off and later I heat shielded it and it didn't continue. The black colored cables should hold up better. That said, I'm now a proponent of heat shielding all cables where they run near exhaust.

Here are my cables:




For the quadrant itself, you would want the RV-10 throttle quadrant. I'm sure you can get it from Van's. What I'm not sure of, is if you can get it without the cables. I'd recommend getting it without, and getting the black cables anyway, if possible. I happened to get mine from another builder who didn't use it, and got it without cables. The quadrant is a very smooth running quadrant and I can get my RPM to the exact RPM that I want when I use it, with 10RPM resolution on my tach. You will want 2 or better yet, 2.125" throw cables, by the way. (Make sure to specify that as a MINIMUM throw)
The part numbers I used are:

176-VTT-2-59.6 (Mixture)
176-VTT-2.25-48.9 (Throttle)
176-VTT-2-54.5 (prop)

The number after VTT is the throw. The final number is the length. My throttle and mixture cables are routed just like the plans show. My prop cable I wanted to reduce the number of sharp bends a bit and since it was easy, I did. I installed a firewall eyeball passthrough on the upper firewall and routed it out there instead of the firewall passthrough where the wires go through by the starter/master contactor. This gives a much smoother cable run. I wish there were an easy way to also improve the mixture cable routing but it wasn't as easy to find a good way for that one.

If you decide to copy my cables, keep in mind that the lengths are dependent on doing the same routing, so you may want to do your own measurement on the prop cable. I used my old, melted cover RV-10 cables as mock-up cables. If you do a quadrant, I may be able to send you one to play with...you just cover the shipping there, and either back or to the next guy that asks me for it.

Here are the pics of the quadrant itself, with the controls at full forward throw and full aft throw.










Now a note on cable and control throw...

My IO-390 as it arrived, required 2.25" of control throw. You want to make sure you get not only full travel but a cushion at each end, per plans, so you can ensure full control of the device. 2.25" of required throw was not possible, as the quadrant is really built to deliver 2", or a max of about 2.125" of throw, stop to stop. The same thing has been an issue for builders for many years, including on my RV-10. On my -10, I drilled the arm (you'll see more forum threads regarding all of this), and with a hole drilled just above the stock arm hole, you end up getting perfect control throw. My controls then moved stop to stop with just a tiny cushion on both ends. But, I didn't stop there. If you notice the plans have you install the throttle control rod end with an offset spacer. This isn't ideal either, as you're not pulling directly on the arm but on a bolt that has a little lever moment to it. It's not a real problem, once you've drilled the arm it'll work fine, but, you can improve it a little bit and guarantee full throttle throw, by just replacing the arm. There is a part number AV2522004 that is the replacement arm, that is a straight arm. Then you can get rid of the spacer and mounting it all is cleaner.


Here are some pics for what I'm talking about.










Similarly, there is an improvement you can do with the hartzell governor.
I personally think the stock S-1-79 prop governor arm we get is way too short a throw. When connected to the quadrant I only got 1/2 travel with the stock arm. I called Hartzell and they have the perfect solution...
There is a universal arm, p/n 103568 that they offer. It's got 3 holes drilled in it. So you can mount it with whatever throw you require.
This allows you not only to make it work perfectly with the quadrant, but even improve the connecting of the rod end a lot on the governor.
Notice that on the per-plans install, the rod end is installed on the outside of the arm. This is a must, because the rod end will jam up with the spring block if you mount it on the inside. So they "fixed" it by moving the rod end to the outside of the arm. But, this now means your cable doesn't pull straight back. These control cables wear and work best when they pull straight, not at an angle. By having a longer arm, the rod end can now be safely mounted on the inside of the arm, and it doesn't jam up, and pulls straight. So for only $30, it's a nice improvement.

All of the clevis's and everything are readily available to connect the cables on the quadrant end. I ended up purchasing all my own rod ends for the engine side of the cables (van's has nice kits made for attaching these cables for varous RV's), so after getting my RV-14 FWF parts, I ended up with a bunch of left over brand new rod ends. I over-ordered on parts. But the end result is well worth it. My controls now have great travel, the quadrant is very comfortable and nice, and the plane is the way I wanted it.
Hopefully Van's will make it easier on you all and just get this all figured out for you and release a kit. It literally would only take them an hour to measure it all up...and add on maybe 1/2 hour to cleco in the quadrant to test it out. Then they could just draw up the plans and start selling a quadrant kit. It's not a very complicated upgrade.
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Tim Olson - CFI
RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com
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  #16  
Old 05-02-2016, 08:30 AM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 327
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More pics due to 10 pic max.





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Tim Olson - CFI
RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2016, 10:53 AM
control control is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 317
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Many thanx for sharing!
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2016, 08:35 PM
Dennis Harm Dennis Harm is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cadott wisconsin
Posts: 13
Default RV14A

Thanks for posting Tim hope to use this in the future Dennis
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:04 AM
salto salto is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wee Waa Australia
Posts: 221
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Thanks for all the information Tim. I've jumped in and ordered one from Vans while there is still some left.!
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  #20  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:49 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 327
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Salto, did they have it available without any cables? Just curious. Would be nice if you could just buy the quadrant.
Tim
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1200+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 150+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
RV-10/14 Transition Training: http://www.RVCFI.com
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